it just me or is jungle infinitely more boring than season 6?

it be lìke that··54 votes·3,813 views

jungling feels so plain and uninspired. and as a jungle main it concerns me.

there used to be ways to clear easier and you had to smite different camps based on what you needed.

wanted to clear a ward? smite raptors. dying? smite red. need mana? smite blue. smite krugs for less damage in jungle/stun think someone is in your jungle? smite wolves. bronze? smite gromp.

Now jungle is just...

  1. need hp? if yes smite any camp.

if not see 2.

2 . do you want to clear it slightly faster?

it's missing something and its a BIG something, because if its like this for the entire season, idk how much ill be jungling.

58 Comments

Aurelius Maximus20 votes

If smiting camps is the most interesting thing for you as a jungler, you aren't jungling right

Red Riding Cape32 votes

He did say that jgling is more boring than it was in season 6, not that smiting camps is the most interesting thing for him. You really just took what he said, added your own interpretation of it, and then insulted him for it...

Aurelius Maximus17 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Riding Cape,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q7ZzM2zy,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2016-11-10T03:23:20.147+0000)

He did say that jgling is more boring than it was in season 6, not that smiting camps is the most interesting thing for him. You really just took what he said, added your own interpretation of it, and then insulted him for it...

all of his complaints about jungling had to do with his decisions using smite, and nothing else. in a post about how the jungle is boring.... I didn't add anything.

The thing thats interesting about jungling is the amount of control you have over the map and how you can move across it effectively to counter your opponents movements. Not which camp to smite.

it be lìke that8 votes

[deleted]

Aurelius Maximus20 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bish im saucin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q7ZzM2zy,comment-id=0002000100000000,timestamp=2016-11-10T04:36:40.797+0000)

point is we used to have jungle utility and more uses of our smite rather than healing/objective control.

id expect someone with more loses this season than i have career games across my account to realize that.

i've realized that the whole time bro, what im telling you is the other uses of smite was boring and uninteresting already, so if you find the jungle uninteresting now you aren't doing it right, all the interesting parts are still there and the plants add alot. Smiting to get the vision buff on raptors as much as you could wasn't interesting at all.

I don't understand people who look up profiles to insult other people, you just look stupid. I lost alot of games this season, what does that have to do with anything? I'm a very experienced player who likes to experiment with weird stuff and that nets me more losses than others. It also means i know more about the game.

Villiers6 votes

Idk why you're getting downvoted or argued with. I agree lol.. OP is only talking about smiting 4 camps which became monotonous after a few months.

Sona Ping7 votes

Maybe because he is not addressing the argument, yet making a baseless claim dismissing it while also making a few more unsupported assertions while he was at it.

RichBean2 votes

He looked you up to insult you because your original comment was dick and it really didn't need to be. So you look "stupid", don't be a dick and people won't look up how shitty of a player you are. Simple.

Aurelius Maximus1 votes

{quoted}

He looked you up to insult you because your original comment was dick and it really didn't need to be. So you look "stupid", don't be a dick and people won't look up how shitty of a player you are. Simple.

my comment wasn't dick at all, it was stating a fact. Smiting minions isn't fun. Also he looked up how "shitty of a player" i was and found out i was p1 and used to be diamond and instead chose to say i lost alot of games because he couldn't call me bronze. only scrubs look up shit to insult when they feel attacked. Good people actually use arguments.

FCJAAAAGOOOO2 votes

Welcome to the internet.

Gosh Darn12 votes

These changes just pushed the extremes of the jungle even further out. The champions who lack single target dps such as Sejuani, Zac, and Amumu lose 80% of their health bar on the buffs. The champions with no AoE get executed by raptors.

Also I think the big issue I didn't predict was Kruggs. Champions with aoe abilities on long cooldowns are absolutely fucked for kruggs. It takes multiple abilities just to break the kruggs down into their smallest forms. Try clearing them as Sejuani.

50000000000000006 votes

Riot has said that you wouldn't have to (and wouldn't want to) clear all camps. Krugs are for heavy farm junglers who would rather spend time farming for more gold instead of ganking. Sejuani, like many other tanks, can take raptors extremely easily, and doesn't take too much damage from gromp.

Specter02711 votes

Yea, but the Junglers who can clear them all become the meta and can potentially snowball in an ungodly fashion. Either the bar has to be lowered to the point where a whole host of junglers are viable or we end up with the 4.20 Weedwick patch where the only 3 junglers in game are WW, Lee and Nunu.

Having great uptime makes for a strong jungler. Being able to choose when to recall vs. being forced out by PvE allows you get a jump on the PvP portion of Jungling.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

Yea, but the Junglers who can clear them all become the meta and can potentially snowball in an ungodly fashion. Either the bar has to be lowered to the point where a whole host of junglers are viable or we end up with the 4.20 Weedwick patch where the only 3 junglers in game are WW, Lee and Nunu.

Having great uptime makes for a strong jungler. Being able to choose when to recall vs. being forced out by PvE allows you get a jump on the PvP portion of Jungling.

I mean, sustain in the jungle should be a strength of Nunu.

Warwick is next on the rework block. He's being redesigned with the new jungle in mind so they might cut his sustain down.

Gosh Darn1 votes

Exactly. This takes me back to season 5 where jungling was pretty exclusive and you saw only a handful of viable junglers.

Sona Ping2 votes

Riot has said that you wouldn't have to (and wouldn't want to) clear all camps. Krugs are for heavy farm junglers who would rather spend time farming for more gold instead of ganking. Sejuani, like many other tanks, can take raptors extremely easily, and doesn't take too much damage from gromp.

Well, that's just dumb. That idea was a failure with the Wight and nothing has changed to lend any credibility to the notion it would be any different now.

1374341 votes

The purpose of adding the Wight/Gromp was to even out Blue/Red sides of the jungle. Before Red side was favored for junglers as it had more camps, which sucked if you were a blue team top laner or a red team bot laner because you were more likely to be ganked and less likely to get a gank/counter gank.

Blue just had the wolves which are honestly not that close to top/bot lane.

Nameless Voice1 votes

If they want you to not have to clear all the camps, why did they add 50% to the spawn timers? Even slow junglers are going to be sitting in their jungle with nothing to do if they can't gank or invade.

EtherealMage1 votes

Just learned that Hecarim 's early clear is even worse now without Gromp buff- I had to recall after two camps because Blue nearly killed me. :(

50000000000000002 votes

Maybe start red or raptors? Hecarim has good AoE and physical damage, so red side should be easier to clear. Smite now gives you healing, so sustain shouldn't be be a big issue for most junglers.

Gixia11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bish im saucin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q7ZzM2zy,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-11-10T03:08:55.037+0000)

jungling feels so plain and uninspired. and as a jungle main it concerns me.

there used to be ways to clear easier and you had to smite different camps based on what you needed.

wanted to clear a ward? smite raptors. dying? smite red. need mana? smite blue. smite krugs for less damage in jungle/stun think someone is in your jungle? smite wolves. bronze? smite gromp.

Except this is false. A more accurate way to put it would be: Want to clear a ward? Smite raptors. Want to place a ward? Smite wolves. Smite anything else? You're doing it wrong.

You only ever smite krugs/gromp your first clear, and you only smite red/blue buff if you're trying to steal/stop the opponent from stealing it. If you ever used smite on any of those camps for their buffs after your first clear, then you weren't using smite properly. Which is why they were removed. It only LOOKED like you had a choice, but any choice other than raptors (and SOMETIMES wolves) was demonstrably wrong.

TequilaZombie3 votes

Or you could Smite the Blue/Red buff to prepare for a gank with more health/mana left. Specially useful when the enemy team had a fed laner.

Marshbouy5 votes

Keep changes to jungle monster camps, bring back smite buffs? maybe?

it be lìke that2 votes

i hate that every camp heals you as well, it has effectively lowered the skill of jungling by like 75% at least. lowish hp? smite gromp walk over to the river eat that honeyfruit now you are full hp when you should be shambling around like larry king.

also i dont think they would go for this since we are now getting extra gold too from endless krugs/extra baby raptors. i imagine people would complain junglers have too much going for them.

nananananacat2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bish im saucin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q7ZzM2zy,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-11-10T03:15:59.871+0000)

i hate that every camp heals you as well, it has effectively lowered the skill of jungling by like 75% at least.

lowish hp? smite gromp walk over to the river eat that honeyfruit now you are full hp when you should be shambling around like larry king.

Yea, I feel it almost makes the fruit useless unless you need lots of mana...

Skias1 votes

{quoted}

Yea, I feel it almost makes the fruit useless unless you need lots of mana...

As Taric Top, I never see people take the fruit. So I do. Its pretty nice for me lol

JhomasTefferson3 votes

I agree. I had no sustain problems at all with shaco in the first game I played.

Specter0273 votes

After switching to Top and watching my Nidalee/Wukong/Yi jungle die while doing second camp so many times last year, I'm more than happy for them to introduce more generalized sustain.

I know that anyone can go into a custom game and practice solo clearing, but it sometimes seems I'm the only one who tries this.

Karakot1 votes

"lowish hp? smite gromp walk over to the river eat that honeyfruit now you are full hp when you should be shambling around like larry king" The Larry king thing had me dying rofl

Ýisus5 votes

The new Jungle is horrid - not only is it boring - it now gives a complete advantage to anyone who can wall hop / ward jump .... and any ranged jungler. Sometimes I wonder where Riot found its hiring pool. Thinking just isnt their strong point.

Aurelius Maximus2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ganksta Yisus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q7ZzM2zy,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-11-10T05:55:20.009+0000)

The new Jungle is horrid - not only is it boring - it now gives a complete advantage to anyone who can wall hop / ward jump .... and any ranged jungler. Sometimes I wonder where Riot found its hiring pool. Thinking just isnt their strong point.

those champions have always had certain advantages, which are now stressed, as are some of their weaknesses. The new jungle has been out not even a full day, give it more time

Specter0272 votes

Ok, what's the downside to a shitload of mobility?

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Somehow I miss the point here: why is the new jungle benefitting wall jumping champs more than champs without this ability?

Existential Bard1 votes

{quoted}

Somehow I miss the point here: why is the new jungle benefitting wall jumping champs more than champs without this ability?

I don't think singling out these champs is a fair assessment. I do however think that this season Riot is favoring more mobile champs over less mobile champs. Many of the assassin items now have movement speed effects on them. This should hint the the new emerging meta

1374341 votes

Well that is because the assassin class has always been about having access to some form of mobility...

TheTrueQuarian5 votes

As a jungle main i fucking love all the new stuff to learn!

Ýisus1 votes

{quoted}

As a jungle main i fucking love all the new stuff to learn!

Someone like Rek Sai can go into the enemy jg and kill all beneficial plants then escape - where if a non wall jumping champion tried to do the same he would actually be forced to go into the jg and risk being caught out. For example the baron / dragon vision is quite beneficial. Fizz can neutralize the enemy vision - Xin can't.

Specter0273 votes

I agree, Jungling hasn't really been fun from me since 4.20, and this patch doesn't really feel like a step in the right direction.

The plants don't feel great. Scryer feels OP. Health plant in river seems like a fair trade off - health for speed, but the jump plant feels more like a gimmick or a "for the lulz" click than a great gameplay mechanic (and I've seen people make plays with it - both from skill [they knew the plant was there and it was part of a planned escape] and from sheer dumb luck, like a lucky spawn that I knew they had never scouted). Also, I'm a fucking Gardener now instead of a Jungler. Yippy. I don't really want a living Jungle. I want to burn it down for $.

Normal games have been fun, but I've got two accounts, one fell to S4 and was stuck there for a month or so. That experience made me quit jungling. I watch pro streams where Platinum+ players go 10 minutes without a first blood. The S4 experience is botlane giving up a double kill to the enemy ADC and Top dies, teleports back to lane and dies again before I can even hit L3. Now Top is down by two levels, bot is down by 1 level and yet all 3 lanes are continuing to hard push without a ward leaving me to try to guess where I can counter a gank or an All-in.

In response to this situation I was given plants to tend. A digital Zen Garden for my tilt.

The increased spawn times on monsters in jungle since 4.20 leaves me with less things to actively engage with - and it gets worse when my laners decide to take camps themselves. Oh, and now my midlaner thinks he should get Chickens and Blue every time they're up from about the 6:45 mark on.

I remember Meteos commenting at Worlds that the meta had shifted to Power farming the Jungle on a bruiser-engager champ until you were strong enough to force action, and how he was hesitant to go for early plays due to how behind you would get if your play failed and you got counter-jungled. I've been in games where I've been counter-jungled and put a level behind the enemy jungler permanently and lost every 1v1 or skirmish due to level discrepancy.

Jungling feels like there are few comeback mechanics and it feels like I'm entirely reliant on lanes to set me up to play through them, and if they don't know how to do that things get out of hand in a hurry. The new Krugs and Chickens I feel will only encourage more heavy farming of jungle and less interaction with lanes and are ripe for abuse.

In regards to OP's Wolf Smite, I liked my defensive wolf smite, hated enemies defensive wolf smite. I've peaced out so many dive or invade opportunities because of a WarCraft 3 Wisp running at me. So if giving up my wolf helps drive more action I'll take it.

If they take away smite buffs yet keep smite HP restore I wish they'd also add lesser % missing mana restore to the smite effect as well. Mana junglers still have to make a terrible trade-off between good clear and having mana for ganks that manaless Junglers like Lee Sin and Rek'sai don't have to make.

I think taking away the two sentinels from buffs is a horrible idea. Now giving up a buff to laner sees you lose more XP. The reasoning was trash too, as in "We felt there was enough 3 spawn camps. So we ditched Sentinels." Well, now the only 3 spawn jungle camp is wolf. The Sentinels were there to keep Junglers from getting screwed out of XP when they were charitable to lanes. They give smite a generic effect while turning every camp into a special little snowflake of an event.

forresto2 votes

tbh i feel like they had the right ideas with what they wanted the plants to do, they were just poorly executed. Theyre also something you're gonna grow into, like when you first unlock flash and you think "oh it moves me like a foot big woop." before you find out how important it is. It is also important though to differentiate between what's meta in pros, and what you actually see in your own games. if you're silver, you're probly not playing with a bunch of people who know what strategy is in right now, and actively pursue it. you're playing with a bunch of people going duuurrrrr look a camp, nom nom. oh someones pushed, gank nom nom. (i count myself in the ranks of mouthbreathers here). basically anything below diamond which is probly 97% of people don't actually know what's meta or if they have a vague idea they don't know why.

Pæan3 votes

The plants are hilarious. Kind of in a bad way though. I invaded and killed their pantheon as shaco, then dueled akali until I realized I wouldn't win, smacked the knock up fruit for a FREE escape into baron pit.

I can see the plants being contested objectives in high elo and pro play. It will allow any jungle a chance to steal baron/dragon without wasting flash.

Existential Bard3 votes

I actually like the jungle changes. I feel Riot made the jungle easier for clearing to open up a meta for more junglers. I also feel the easier clears and streamlined smite helps the jungler to gank earlier.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

I think the goal is for GANKING to be something you spend more time doing. They decreased monster difficulty, tried to keep health higher, and decreased the camp spawn time. Ultimately, I think the goal is to make more PvP interactions happen sooner.

I'm not a frequent jungler, but that seems like what you could be missing.

Korillo2 votes

I am personally not a fan of the fruit at all, it feels clumsy

Llanite1 votes

Negative.

Blue and Red are never there so you can "wanted to smite red/blue for health/mana", if it stays there 30s past spawn time, you're doing horribly wrong. The heal is simply a complementary effect that they are now giving to every camp.

Jungle choice Pre-2017:

  • Do I need smite for the next 45s? If not, proceed to smite the stupid wolf/Frog/Golem/Red/Blue

Jungle choice Post-2017:

  • Do I need smite for the next 45s? If not, proceed to smite the stupid wolf/Frog/Golem/Red/Blue

The only change is that you can now start at any camp, rather than pigeon-hole into Golem/Frog

Greymoore1 votes

The only change is that you can now start at any camp, rather than pigeon-hole into Golem/Frog

The only change is that you can now start at any camp Blue or Red, rather than pigeon-hole into Golem/Frog

Imperial Japan1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bish im saucin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q7ZzM2zy,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-11-10T03:08:55.037+0000)

jungling feels so plain and uninspired. and as a jungle main it concerns me.

there used to be ways to clear easier and you had to smite different camps based on what you needed.

wanted to clear a ward? smite raptors. dying? smite red. need mana? smite blue. smite krugs for less damage in jungle/stun think someone is in your jungle? smite wolves. bronze? smite gromp.

Now jungle is just...

  1. need hp? if yes smite any camp.

if not see 2.

2 . do you want to clear it slightly faster?

it's missing something and its a BIG something, because if its like this for the entire season, idk how much ill be jungling.

Just you

dunkeroni1 votes

Maybe that will encourage some of them to gank lanes instead of afk farm all game.

Maybe.

Probably not.

WhaiiSoSerious1 votes

It's such an awful set up. I really cant believe this is a real thing lol.

What the fuck is up with golems and birds.

Havent said this in a while but

#EPIC FAIL

Cavesloth1 votes

I gotta agree jungle feels boring now, there's no advantage to taking any camps other than red and blue. It feels like laning without opponents, just hitting minions for gold, its like being a bot game if you have no lanes if you can't gank anyone, especially if you have a fast clear speed and all your camps are dead. Plus those junglers without cc will be spending alot more time chasing down scuttler and taking more damage from camps without the krugs smite bonus, I think we're gonna see a huge shift of the jungle meta and not in the way riot intended. But hey how often do their major changes actually work the way they intend?

Karakot1 votes

"bronze? smite gromp" I laughed too hard because I used to (and still) smite gromp on my first clear when I play warwick

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