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Vlad is in a pitiful state

Malicious Metal·Oct 2, 2016·27 votes·2,306 views

Ah, Vlad. The epitome of a stat check champion, this being the reason that lead to his rework, trying to make him more engaging, less binary, having more windows of power. The rework succeeded in most of them but at what cost?

He became one of the strongest mid lane picks, contested and often pick or ban. Well, until now at least.

At the moment Vladimir rocks a 44% win rate over every position, being on an Azir tier of win rate and competitive value. Both suffer from the same problem: Being too good in the hand of professionals and sub par for casual players due to how strong they become with proper team coordination, hell even Shen suffers from this problem.

Now Vlad's one of the weakest champions there is, his only value being his huge team fighting ultimate but instead of fixing what makes him such a dominating factor in pro play riot just went ahead and nerfed the aspects that had decent counterplay and felt fair, namely his empowered Q and his E

I really feel sad for everyone who enjoys the champion and their mains have been through more than enough, joining the Malzahar mains on the bench of sadness while their favorite champion gets repeatedly nerfed until riot finally sees the problem and nerfs that deciding factor without reverting any of the prior nerfs.

I really hope Riot learned from Malzahar and nerf Vlad's early game team fighting by nerfing Hemoplague and beef up his basic skills. Make Vlad great again 'cause at the moment he feelsvladman

Edit; I played a game of Mordekaiser today and my mid lane Vlad, who had mastery 7 mind you, dealt way less damage than me and we had the same amount of damage healed. I see no reason why anyone in SoloQ would want to pick Vlad when Morde's a way better health based caster. Please fix this, it can't be that Morde's better at healing than THE healing champion while pumping out even more damage.

nerf his bloody (hue) ultimate and balance him by making his less team-oriented abilities better.

http://pre14.deviantart.net/eeeb/th/pre/i/2015/043/3/a/blood_lord_vlad_by_artisticphenom-d8hrc9k.jpg

33 Comments

RivuoOct 2, 201611 votes

Maybe

just maybe people will realize hitting harder because you built tank/survivability items is not healthy for the fuckin game

Jet SettOct 2, 20169 votes

Health often deteriorates at the increase of diversity, if Vlad didn't get compensation in some way for him building HP it'd make him much weaker due to his kit being based on sustain, and sustain is worthless without some way to tank damage. He would feel terrible as a glass sustain cannon, and he would be oppressive if he could get away with building full tank and do damage comparable to other mages.

For this reason Vlad is weaker early and is very item and level dependent. Vlad should be rewarded not for full AP, not for full tank, but for an optimal combination of the two so that he isn't unhealthy and he isn't terrible to play. These options can still be available to the players, but he should be balanced around the optimal itemization as most champions are, and hope that Riot buffs/nerfs as is necessary when changing core items.

LankPantsOct 2, 20161 votes

Health often deteriorates at the increase of diversity, if Vlad didn't get compensation in some way for him building HP it'd make him much weaker due to his kit being based on sustain, and sustain is worthless without some way to tank damage. He would feel terrible as a glass sustain cannon, and he would be oppressive if he could get away with building full tank and do damage comparable to other mages.

He'd probably build more armour and MR to compensate. Rather than rushing SV he'd rush down Abyssal, then Zhonya's and maybe something like a GA. HP doesn't actually scale well with sustain. If you're at half HP and you heal for 200 it doesn't matter if your HP pool is 2k or 3k, you heal for 200. If you have resists that 200 HP becomes more valuable however.

For this reason Vlad is weaker early and is very item and level dependent. Vlad should be rewarded not for full AP, not for full tank, but for an optimal combination of the two so that he isn't unhealthy and he isn't terrible to play.

Except that's not currently true. Vlad is rewarded too much for tanky items and as such tends to rush Spirit Visage and simply ignore the majority of the damage that's laid into him. Mages currently can't really deal with Vlad in any appreciable way since once he gets his 1200 gold Cowl he has too much sustain to actually poke through. Once you have half an item on Vlad you're already too hard for most champs to remove.

D357R0Y3ROct 2, 20161 votes

i'm sorry but i don't have any problems with that guy

the problem with vlad is his ulti that's all, his ulti made him nerfed 5 or 6 times for his pro plays, repertoir said once that riot has no problem with champions transforming defense into offense, or the opposite ( Jax Rammus )

i can't believe this is getting upvotes.

Ulquiorra995Oct 2, 20161 votes

Meanwhile item 3748

One of the problems with Vlad going tanky is how much counterplay they introduced in his kit - only every 3rd Q being impactful, E having to be charged and slowing him and a big part of his sustain tied to a 5 second delay R. These changes made AP Vlad a high risk and low-to-medium reward champion - and logical choice became building him tanky so, you know, he can actually survive to make use of horrible delays on every spell he has.

Compare to old Vlad who had no qualms building full AP. While still taking similar risks as new one (having to go close without CC and lacking burst in favour of sustain damage), the payoff for doing so was much more reliable in form of sustain and ramping-up DPS.

Still, I'm wait to see how those PBE changes work out. 1.0 AP on E is going to fucking hurt of he manages to pull it of well.

LankPantsOct 2, 20161 votes

I don't actually believe this is Vlads big problem. There's plenty of champs who do convert HP or other defensive stats into damage and generally feel fine for the game. I could be wrong on this and it could be Vlad's damage from durability that makes him unhealthy but if it is it's not durability to damage inherently, but rather that interaction on a ranged champion that's problematic.

My personal opinion is that Riot fucked up when they left Vlad's sustain against creeps in tact. It allows Vlad to continue his whole 'I'm just going to farm and ignore the hell out of you' playstyle that Riot said they wanted to remove.

RivuoOct 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I don't actually believe this is Vlads big problem. There's plenty of champs who do convert HP or other defensive stats into damage and generally feel fine for the game. I could be wrong on this and it could be Vlad's damage from durability that makes him unhealthy but if it is it's not durability to damage inherently, but rather that interaction on a ranged champion that's problematic.

My personal opinion is that Riot fucked up when they left Vlad's sustain against creeps in tact. It allows Vlad to continue his whole 'I'm just going to farm and ignore the hell out of you' playstyle that Riot said they wanted to remove.

Yes because item 3065 item 3001 item 3152 item 3116 item 3157 item 3135

is just the healthiest AP build for him.

I dont care what elo what lcs player what experience you have.

Nobody can deny that building straight survivability items = doing more damage, is somehow fair for the game.

''I rushed a spirit visage now nobody mid lane can kill me ever'' - vlad

VeltoxOct 2, 20161 votes

you wot? item 3135 item 3151 item 3001 item 3123 item 3153 Vayne Fiora .

Ulquiorra995Oct 2, 20167 votes

I would't mind him getting a more selfish ult if it means he could be balanced for both regular players and LCS. Something along the lines of, say "single target takes 20% more damage from Vlad, after X seconds it explodes spreading the infection to nearby enemies". Would still be rather unique without bringing raw utility potential that makes him unbalanceable for everyone.

SaltyToplaneGoatOct 2, 20163 votes

Ya gotta scrap his ult and most of his AoE. That would allow for more healthy design, because right now you always have to assume what the best case scenario is: 5 enemies hit and a team to follow up your ult dmg. amp perfectly. Even if that barely happens, you have to keep that in mind when balancing.

Also, Q needs changes. I'd say one could move the "infecting with blood" theme here: use basic attacks to infect enemies with blood, after some time you press Q to drain all targets in range. The instant-thing as it is now makes balancing on top problematic

Big LincolnOct 2, 20162 votes

Vlad needed a bigger rework than what he got if they wanted to make him less of a stat-check

SasogwaOct 2, 20162 votes

"pitiful state"

Still picked in worlds at the most competitive level of League of Legends. Please.

We can't afford to buff Vladimir in the state he currently is, that's it. That's due to his kit and actually his identity it seems, because no matter the rework, he's always problematic. Well, he was arguably less problematic before rework, funnily enough.

Bladerunner7777Oct 2, 20162 votes

I would say "reward him for building mostly damage and not tank" but Riot is already doung this

No reason to complain

grugOct 2, 20161 votes

yeah rework into current low winrate ryze state

l0l

XinCrinOct 2, 20161 votes

Vlad has a new, amazing, kit. Wave clear, naturally beats out other ap mids, sustain, good team fights. He has too many things jammed into his kit. I feel like they should promote a certain aspect of a kit. Maybe the wave pushing or the healing or his team fights instead of letting him be an all around champion. A way for vladimir to win in solo que but maybe not get abused to hard in competitive.

CalabokOct 2, 20161 votes

Yes I agree, Nerf Vlad

Raid Boss MordeOct 2, 20161 votes

People would pick Vlad over Mordekaiser because he brings more to a team. He's got a team-wide damage amp, and a built-in slow. He's also faster than Mordekaiser, so that's something I suppose.

Can't really compare a Juggernaut to a mage though.

SolitairOct 2, 20161 votes

From what I understand, past devs were well aware of Vlad's balance issues, and announced that they even regretted his conception as a champion. The rework was an attempt to fix what was an inherently broken champion, but they messed up when they did their best to fix his problems without addressing his core issues. That, they called "unique", and in a way they were right. His identity would be forever altered if they took it away; but that's not exactly a bad thing. For him to ever be healthy, his premise as a champion essentially has to be replaced, because his basic premise is what causes his problems. Riot tried, but you don't cure cancer by shaving little edges of a fist-sized tumor. Unfortunately, in Vlad's case, that fist-sized tumor is actually also his heart.

statelesskillerOct 2, 20161 votes

i wish they never touched vlad. and that they never removed wota. sure he was obnoxiouse but he wasnt this massive blast of damage he is now. they gave him windows in power in exchange for giving him MORE DAMAGE. he didnt have much damage before but he had very consistent damage

and wota was a item that plenty of mages COULD build. i know i built it on swain quite abit. i WOULD have built it on ryze but at the time ryze had built in spellvamp and CDR so there wasnt a point to building it.

honestly old vlad had his problems but the solution just made even BIGGER problems

sincerely a vlad main turned gangplank main

Ninja JesusOct 2, 20161 votes

I don't think his empowered Q is fair. Having the ability to zone an opponent off of CS or lose 15-20% is pretty bad for a zero resource point and click ability.

AptestOct 2, 20161 votes

I think the core problem with vlad is that his core gameplay is to stat-check his opponents.

do you have enough damage to bring me down in one go? you don't you need X amount more damage to bring me down due to my sustain. in the mean while, all of you are taxed Y amount of health. BTW i get an extra rotation while i delete one of your big spells with my W.

I mean, vlad doesn't really have any flashy moves he just walks up to opponents and AOEs everyone around him. While being just tanky enough so you can't really burst him down so he can put another healing speed bump in your way.

maybe the correct way is to move him from being an AOE damage dealer pushing champion to a having mostly a single target kit? maybe have an ultimate like Doom's doom from dota2 ?

Sahn UzalOct 2, 20161 votes

That fan art is just staring at ya like

#''What if I told you....''

http://generator-meme.com/inc/media/memes/what-if-i-told-you.jpg

l Dárius lOct 2, 20161 votes

Vlad was fucking annoying. His kit is cancer and he wrecked most toplaners and out sustained nearly every mid laner. You had to buy a certain item or bring ignite to negate his annoying healing if you were AD, or take the L if you were ap (Even more so if you used energy or were rescourceless and couldn't buy item 3165 )

His ability to build this retarded psuedotank build, deal most of your hp with his ult/e/q then w while his abilities were down, then use them again when he got out of his w was annoying.

In teamfights he was like a Singed in that he was really annoying, and made a mess of your backline, except Vlad did it better by healing off his q, building that aids build, and doing way more damage. He turned into this statball just loaded with numbers and a good early game but still just scaled up and up.

I could go on and on about this champion and how much I hated him but it wouldn't matter because everyone knows and I am biased so I am going to leave it at that.

Stars ShaperOct 2, 20161 votes

Imo what brakes Vladimir is his itemization. You can't have a character with high selfhealing baseline who can also build item 3065 item 3157 item 3152 . All these items were meant for different "classes" of champions and Vlad can stack all together while still dealing considerable high damage, have escape/engage tools, being ranged and self heal like he is supposed to do because of his thematics.

Vlad is the Drain Mage, Riot has shown time over time that they can't really handle "Drainers" (Aatrox, WW and Vlad) and should really take a good look at them entirely. I don't know how to do it though without negating some items to certain champions.

VeltoxOct 2, 20162 votes

No they don't break crap while item 3123 item 3034 item 3153 exist.

Stars ShaperOct 2, 20161 votes

I maybe worded poorly. Once again I meant thatthose items are part of him being either too strong or too weak.

JakraOct 2, 20161 votes

I'm probably going to get downvoted to hell for this, but I feel like Ryze and Vladimir switched places in some way. A low win rate, but a highly volatile kit that it makes it feel unbalanced.

Legacy HydralphaOct 2, 20161 votes

I've never been a huge fan of playing "draintanks" (which I consider Aatrox , Trundle , Olaf , and ), but Vladimir's kit is one of the larger ones with the Mage update. I've played both old and new Vladimir and his new kit is definitely much more interactive than spamming E and getting heals. I've heard of a "power budget" Riot uses when designing or reworking champions, such as one ability would be 20% of the power they should have, and another about 40%. Vlad can get a lot of power from damage = tank, and tank = damage, and his heals help him. At a cost, he has to use health for abilities and he's very immobile, having his W as his only form of avoiding abilities. IMO, Season 6 is the worst balanced season I've noticed (been playing since mid-late Season 4). Pray to the Game Balancing gods that Riot figures out how to fix champions next season.

CavemanteroOct 2, 20161 votes

I'm glad he is. I think he's a crap champion anyways...one of my most hated because you can't tell what he actually does other than the stupid blood pool. The invincibility mechanics are tired...and with so many of the new champs having them in some form or another (thanks Ghostcrawler!) he's a champion I will probably never care to play.

TurquoiseYoshiOct 2, 20161 votes

Uhhhh... Vlad isn't trash. He has the 10th highest P/B at Worlds right now, which is above Jayce, Jhin, and Kennen, for comparison.

VallalanOct 2, 20161 votes

well vlad is more safe than mordekaiser. his pool is pretty damn good and his team fighting is much better.

i think mordei s a bit underrated right now for sure, but vlad is mostly low in win rate because of how difficult he is to play properly.

I have only seen one good vlad in ranked my entire time playing but when I did he could basically 1 v 5 and kite forever. he was a beast and the champion definitely needed nerfs. I think balancing a champion around sustain is always hard beause if they go too hard the champ is busted. (swain, vlad, graves, post juggernaut morde)

CasterGilgameshOct 3, 20161 votes

if riot just made his ult more selfish vlad would be fine.....

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