Would a Mind Control ultimate still be off-limits due to "removes control" rule?

darkdill·May 16, 2018·3 votes·2,929 views

In the past, Riot has said that a true Mind Control ultimate would be "toxic gameplay" due to it taking control away from a player, but that was years ago (IIRC). I doubt they're keeping this rule anymore, so I think now would be a nice time to introduce a Champion who can Mind Control an enemy.

To keep it balanced, I'd have it be similar to Sylvanas' version in Heroes of the Storm. She has to channel, it doesn't last long, and she can only make you move; she can't make you attack, use abilities, or perform any other actions. It's strictly a means of forcing you to move into a bad position, but can be interrupted by crowd control. This, I feel, would be the most acceptable way to implement it into League.

Feel free to discuss.

27 Comments

5050BSMay 16, 20182 votes

Charm and Taunt is the line they have drawn

DominosThotMay 16, 20182 votes

That rule never made sense because stuns aren't uncommon in League

MorganFreemanBotMay 16, 20184 votes

{quoted}

That rule never made sense because stuns aren't uncommon in League

It does.

Stuns remove your ability to play the game, because your character is unresponsive. Your champion does not respond, however it doesn't act on its own.

A mind control would take it a step farther. Not only does your champion not respond, but your champion takes actions which you do not want, ncluding precision repositioning with minimal skill & putting abilities. Simply the ability to throw another champs ulti / perhaps long cooldown E out of the fight is.. staggeringly strong.

Spank the FoxMay 16, 20182 votes

I’d be inclinded to agree but Skarner’s ult exists and isn’t regarded as toxic. If anything, it’s iconic

MorganFreemanBotMay 16, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spank the Fox,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q1mfhOLV,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-05-16T12:34:31.394+0000)

I’d be inclinded to agree but Skarner’s ult exists and isn’t regarded as toxic. If anything, it’s iconic

It also has abundant counter play; he has to run in (without any dashes / teleports), grab someone, and then has a VERY brief window to run back out. This means that it's pretty reasonable for enemies to CC him before / during his drag and prevent him from said precision reposition.

The only other champ who has access to something like this is Blitz with his hook, and it's made him very problematic / receive extremely heavy nerfs at times, when he could do it too easy and without too much risk.

So that's... two champions. And it's important to note that these champions still simply fall under the "your champion becomes unresponsive" umbrella but with the benefit of moving them. They don't consume spells / burn mana or energy, or any of the other massively impactful negatives which would apply to a 'mind control' ability.

Spank the FoxMay 17, 20181 votes

You’re making the assumption a mind control ultimate wouldn’t have piss weak range or other counter-play measures.

I’m merely pointing out we basically already have mechanics that remove control of your character and forcibly displaces them and they’re not game-changing as people are theorizing.

nm1010May 16, 20181 votes

A mind control would take it a step farther. Not only does your champion not respond, but your champion takes actions which you do not want including precision repositioning with minimal skill

I mean creep block has been doing this for years.

Killer of Night9May 16, 20182 votes

Sona <--- She force to dance.

remakoroMay 16, 20182 votes

Actually it would be hella fun to have the same ability but working on your allies. To actually put them in better position. Something like - if they are stunned/charmed/taunted you can take control over their bodies and MOVE THEM FUCKING AWAY.

Shazzbot69May 16, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Actually it would be hella fun to have the same ability but working on your allies. To actually put them in better position. Something like - if they are stunned/charmed/taunted you can take control over their bodies and MOVE THEM FUCKING AWAY.

This is actually toxic.

remakoroMay 16, 20181 votes

what?) why?) Like that shit swain has. That allows him to drag people to him after CC. But not that forceful) Just giving general direction to move towards until CC ends)

Shazzbot69May 16, 20182 votes

{quoted}

what?) why?) Like that shit swain has. That allows him to drag people to him after CC. But not that forceful) Just giving general direction to move towards until CC ends)

because trolls would abuse it to send teammates purposely towards danger. You said while they are CC'd? In most sitcuations being CC'd is a precursor to danger and being killed.

Mysticman89May 17, 20181 votes

TahmKench

Baron BarianMay 16, 20181 votes

It also only lasts for like 2 seconds. Just long enough to place the enemy into a more desirable position.

Spank the FoxMay 16, 20181 votes

You mean like.... Skarner :thinking:

Late For TeaMay 16, 20181 votes

Too broken, cause it almost guarantees a kill. It works on Skarner because he has to be in melee range, he has to expose himself to pull it off. This also makes it more telegraphed, allowing you to react to it prematurely. Using something like that from range is a big no-no.

People are already complaining about Malz's ult. This is a worse version.

darkdillMay 16, 20181 votes

QSS could purge it, you could Zhonya it to block it and make the MC-user go on cooldown, or mages could take a Banshee's Veil and they'd be safe from it.

Alternatively, your teammate could save you from the mind control by CC-ing the user.

A number of other things could be done to make the user of a mind control ult weaker, such as weak 1v1 capability, low durability, etc.

Lastly, Sylvanas' version takes 1 second before she actually starts mind-controlling her target. This means her opponents can react to it.

Late For TeaMay 17, 20181 votes

Most of those apply to Malzahar's ult as well, and it still is very problematic.

darkdillMay 19, 20181 votes

You can't Zhonya against Malzahar, unfortunately, since he doesn't have a wind-up. I bet that if Riot gave his ult a wind-up you'd see him much more balanced due to higher counterplay.

Shazzbot69May 16, 20181 votes

Why not just add a champion like enchantress or chen from dota 2, or you know, add actual multi unit control, instead of that pesudo multi unit control shit riot has going on right now

darkdillMay 17, 20181 votes

Multi-unit control is impossible because that'd require an entirely new game engine.

Shazzbot69May 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Multi-unit control is impossible because that'd require an entirely new game engine.

that is true.

Stars ShaperMay 16, 20181 votes

Not if the user is forced to channel it like Sylvanas in HotS.

UnboundHadesMay 17, 20181 votes

it would just make people always take cleanse into them if it was a mid laner or jungler so the only other place i could see this ability fitting in would be a supports kit but i dont really see anything else for the rest of the kit unless the ult is just out of place

darkdillMay 17, 20181 votes

Make it immune to Cleanse, but not QSS, just like suppression effects.

PopcornBunniMay 17, 20181 votes

Urgot ult was changed to what it is precisely because that rule still holds true. Same reason why there wouldn't be an ability like Ryze Ult but for enemies enemies to teleport them into turrets.

darkdillMay 19, 20181 votes

Urgot's ultimate was changed because it didn't fit his kit or design. Riot has said they want to bring back that "swap position with enemy" effect, but it has to be on a different Champion.