Pantheon's Passive effective? I have a question for you Riot.

Ralanr·Sep 11, 2015·11 votes·30,477 views

So I had a match against and recently as and I noticed something. Even though Pantheon's passive will block the attack, he still falls under the effect of 's Q and silence (which kinda screws Pantheon over what with him being an AD caster) and 's blinding dart.

This is by no means a QQ thread, but I was just wondering if it is intended for Pantheon's passive to not block the after effects of basic attack abilities. And if so, why? While arguing logic doesn't hold much ground in games, shouldn't Pantheon's passive block the entirety of basic attack abilities?

Just a thought. What do you all think? Please share.

Edit: Disregard everything I say about Teemo in this post. I got an answer to it and I don't want to delete it because that'd make the answering post irrelevant.

85 Comments

RiotMeddlerSep 11, 201530 votes

Yeah, Pantheon's block's somewhat inconsistent with regards to what effects attached to basic attacks it does and doesn't stop. Dodge (Jax) and Blinds have the same issue, the result of a lot of one off calls being made during the development of individual champions as to what should and shouldn't pierce those effects. That's something we planning on standardizing, get a consistent set of rules going (e.g. constant on hit effects like red buff/Teemo poison shouldn't pierce, splash effects like Kayle E/Jinx rockets should miss the primary targets but splash to other nearby enemies etc). Timeline on that's not certain, at a rough guess preseason or around then's most likely though.

healinglolzSep 11, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Pantheon's block's somewhat inconsistent with regards to what effects attached to basic attacks it does and doesn't stop. Dodge (Jax) and Blinds have the same issue, the result of a lot of one off calls being made during the development of individual champions as to what should and shouldn't pierce those effects. That's something we planning on standardizing, get a consistent set of rules going (e.g. constant on hit effects like red buff/Teemo poison shouldn't pierce, splash effects like Kayle E/Jinx rockets should miss the primary targets but splash to other nearby enemies etc). Timeline on that's not certain, at a rough guess preseason or around then's most likely though.

cool, if you are going to touch pantheon passive can you make it to block every kind of emrpvoed AA(even if it makes magic damage) if pantheon has this he might not suck that much ... who knows Also wont be bad if pantheon recive something under/after popped passive, the stats could be mana/hp regen or armor/mr or any other stat :P

ExecutorDillSep 11, 20151 votes

Dafuq? No panth passive is fine, if he needs something a passive buff is not it. He can block a frick turret shot for good sakes.

RalanrSep 11, 20152 votes

While turret blocking is powerful, that loses its charm after you realize the amount of champions who tend to facecheck turrets in game. It's a powerful ability, that's true, but so is infinitely stacking health Sion

healinglolzSep 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Dafuq? No panth passive is fine, if he needs something a passive buff is not it. He can block a frick turret shot for good sakes.

yeah yeah "best" passive, keep it in mind that pantheon is so weak champion and like Ralanr said there are tons of champions which can stay under the turret for hours

pripustasSep 11, 20153 votes

Could you answer my question please? I played Pantheon just now. Destroyed my lane opponent, was 7/1 and well farmed. My enemy was GP. So then late game came, and I became completely useless. My damage became very pathetic, I couldn't catch anyone, or escape. Just jump in and die instantly. And if that's not enough, my ult was good only to jump onto minions to clear them. Because everyone would escape the ult range before I hit the ground. Every. Single. Time. My question is: what good is Pantheon's ult? It does 1k magic damage at the center and 500 at the edges. Casting ult takes 7seconds (start- land) so you can't really use it for anything other than getting somewhere quicker. My suggestion is: either lower casting time at least in half, or cut the damage to champions (not minions) and remove the warning circle on land.

Thank you for your time. I know you're busy, and I appreciate you reading my post.

EverspaceSep 11, 201510 votes

Pantheon is an assassin and mage hybrid. He has a rediculously good early game in exchange for a less than stellar late game.

This is fine.

You had terrible damage because you didn't build a lot of it:

item 3026 item 3742 item 1334 item 3074 item 3035 item 3211

Does not provide a lot of assassin friendly stats (such as straight up damage) or stats that are nice on pantheon (CDR or Armour Pen). The enemy team (outside of gangplank) had very little armour at all, so I don't understand why you built last whisper when a item 3134 would do. Consider item 3078 , or item 3071 (asking Xin to perhaps go for something else) instead of item 3742 (which I think isn't very harmonious with Panth). Getting more CDR would have allowed you to consider swapping to item 3111 when you are trying to deal with Ashe, Blitz and Lux stopping you from getting at their juggulars.

You probably melted by making stupid decisions about when or how to enter a fight to minimise the hate you would get from the opposing Blitzcrank or Lux.

Maybe you were just making poor choices rather than Pantheon having scaling issues.

RalanrSep 11, 20153 votes

Fighter assassin hybrid. I can see where you got mage due to his reliance on casting. AD casters are rare.

Everything else is correct though. Sorry if I'm being rude.

pripustasSep 11, 20152 votes

I know my stuff. I had to sell damage to buy GA, so I wouldn't die in 2sec. Black cleaver isn't good in this situation, as only gangplank had armor, and LW is enough. TF costs alot, and is better built early than late. Plate is a good item. Only chasing tool Pantheon has is 1sec stun. Slow and speedup helps alot. It's even better with Ashe having perma slow.

EirixotoSep 11, 20158 votes

Apparently you don't know your stuff.

I had to sell damage to buy GA, so I wouldn't die in 2sec.

GA does not stop you from dying in 2 seconds. It only makes you die, and revive against with 30% HP, then die again.

Black cleaver isn't good in this situation, as only gangplank had armor, and LW is enough.

This makes no sense. Cleaver gives the same amount of armor shred as LW gives pen, and thats for your entire team. You stack it super fast with your E. If you feel you died too fast... Well, then get Cleaver for more HP too lol. Hell, it even gives as much AD as LW, on top of CDR.

TF costs alot, and is better built early than late.

Nah. TF is a great last item. The only onesbuilding it early is the ones that has it as their core item, like Irelia and Corki. People go Trinity Force on Rengar as their last item, i.e.

Plate is a good item. Only chasing tool Pantheon has is 1sec stun. Slow and speedup helps alot. It's even better with Ashe having perma slow.

Misconception here. No, it won't help you against Ashe? Why, you ask? Because slows, whch we all know Ashe has a lot of, takes away your stacks. No stacks means no MS, nor no slow. You'd be better off getting Swiftness and Randuins.

Also if you want damage, you dont go triple defensive items lol.

NeoScoutSep 11, 20152 votes

Obviously not

lIIlIIIlIIIlIIlSep 11, 20152 votes

Reading this made me laugh so hard

KSHarrisonSep 11, 20152 votes

Some champions scale better than others into late game; other champions are stronger early game. Pantheon has a power spike early on, and it looks like you steamrolled because of it. Next step is using your 7/1 to snowball your team. Your ult isn't used for damage, it's used to transport yourself. Try positioning it along enemy escape routes. You can set up ganks that are almost guaranteed kills whenever your ult is off cooldown and even engage teamfights this way. It takes practice but Pantheon is a fine champion (albeit GP is a little OP so maybe not compared to him).

SiytherSep 11, 20152 votes

exactly u cannot use it to jump directly into a fight they will all just move away what i like to do is use it to move to a flanking position then jump in with ur stun or u can ulti in behind the enemy cutting off their escape route both tech of ulti this way are much more effective than trying to ulti into the middle of a fight

RalanrSep 11, 20151 votes

Despite the numbers, Pantheon's ult is not the best for dealing damage. My advice for you is to set up your ult behind your opponent (where they are expected to retreat) so that way you can hit them while they run or take them from behind. You're going to be too squishy to do this to an enemy team without back up, so save it for teamfight initiations.

And use W on your targeted enemy as soon as you can. It's a great combo.

pripustasSep 11, 20151 votes

That's why I suggested cutting the damage to champions, and lowering casting time. Because you can't use it for anything, but teleporting.

RalanrSep 11, 20152 votes

Never underestimate the power of map mobility.

But I can see where your logic is. Personally I wish it was global like it was on release, but it's something you tend to work around. My only complaint is that it takes long to land, but I think Riot would address that if they ever reworked Pantheon. Based on most of my games, I don't have a problem with him. Even in late game (course I play normals).

Revive AatroxSep 11, 20152 votes

The ULT is terrible ..diminish cast time , reduce impact point, ( make it only as big as anivia ult, that way it still can get full minions waves) and drop de 1k damage at center, in fact since most panths take BLKCLVR, make that ult damage physical and help him get more stacks when he's lanfing into action, juts like darius passive got change from true to physical). With lots of across the maps ults/ covering long distances, pantheons surely have one of the worst in term of cast time/ follow up

warpenguin555Sep 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Pantheon's block's somewhat inconsistent with regards to what effects attached to basic attacks it does and doesn't stop. Dodge (Jax) and Blinds have the same issue, the result of a lot of one off calls being made during the development of individual champions as to what should and shouldn't pierce those effects. That's something we planning on standardizing, get a consistent set of rules going (e.g. constant on hit effects like red buff/Teemo poison shouldn't pierce, splash effects like Kayle E/Jinx rockets should miss the primary targets but splash to other nearby enemies etc). Timeline on that's not certain, at a rough guess preseason or around then's most likely though.

THANK YOU!

DotAlisciousSep 11, 20152 votes

You have no idea how glad I am that this is being looked at! Specifically Nasus' Siphoning Strike (Q) will not be dodged by Jax' Counterstrike (E) but will be blocked by Pantheon's Aegis Protection (Passive). It also will miss if Nasus is affected by Teemo's Blinding Dart (Q). These three specific interactions are quite confusing.

ScarletStumpSep 11, 20153 votes

Might you consider going over targeted self-displacement abilities as well? (abilities similar to Jax's leap strike and Pantheon's stun) There is some inconsistency as to the reliability of the effects (damage, cc, etc.) if the character is interrupted mid-ability.

AzurashaSep 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Pantheon's block's somewhat inconsistent with regards to what effects attached to basic attacks it does and doesn't stop. Dodge (Jax) and Blinds have the same issue, the result of a lot of one off calls being made during the development of individual champions as to what should and shouldn't pierce those effects. That's something we planning on standardizing, get a consistent set of rules going (e.g. constant on hit effects like red buff/Teemo poison shouldn't pierce, splash effects like Kayle E/Jinx rockets should miss the primary targets but splash to other nearby enemies etc). Timeline on that's not certain, at a rough guess preseason or around then's most likely though.

Also Garens q still finishes off even after he is stunned, where most aa's just cancel. It makes laning against garen as pantheon impossible, and you might as well just roam and give him first tower.

GhastlyGhoulManSep 11, 20151 votes

I had a question... Should blinds affect Yasuo's Q? I'm just thinking that if I were Yasuo, it would be really hard to hit anything with my sword if I were blinded. Unless I was actually Lee Sin in disguise. Or just too op for blinds. Not a QQ, just curious on thoughts.

5000000000000000Sep 11, 20158 votes

idk why, but it only blocks the damage portion of AA. Also, Teemo's Blinding Dart isn't an empowered AA. It's a single target spell.

RalanrSep 11, 20152 votes

Really? I could have sworn in knocked off my passive.

McSatanSep 11, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Really? I could have sworn in knocked off my passive.

His AA and Q have very similar animations, only really noticeable difference is the sound.

5000000000000000Sep 11, 20152 votes

Also, most Teemos use Q-AA for quick harass.

RalanrSep 11, 20151 votes

I see, learn something new everyday.

So do you think it would too powerful if pantheon's passive could cancel the effects of an empowered AA? Personally I think it wouldn't be unbalanced, but as you can see with my knowledge of Teemo I in need of a second opinion.

And maybe two or three more.

EverspaceSep 11, 20151 votes

If pantheon's passive was more controllable with a better defined cooldown you could make a better argument for it blocking all AA delivered strikes.

Passive hits like: Amumu Teemo Gnar Vayne Orianna should be stopped from having their secondary effects happening (you don't get a silver bolt tick because you didn't hit with it). That champion exhausts nothing but the AA for gaining that effect.

Active hits (have to spend a CD for) or hits that require a build up of resources like Maokai Kassadin XinZhao MonkeyKing Garen LeeSin should not stopped from having the secondary effect (hp restore, mp restore, rend, knockup, silence, energy restore) since they spent resources for that hit. I'm more ok about blocking the damage, since you can do an AA reset to get rid of the shield since it's on the user's interaction more than on panth's successful usage of his passive.

There are some problem champions like Poppy who has no added utility to her Q strike, but overall I think that it would just be an unfavourable matchup (which is ok honestly, and because you can still do the AA reset).

RalanrSep 11, 20152 votes

Whenever Yi does alpha strike and I'm mid W I miss him and the cooldown activates. I honestly don't see the problem in some champs empowered auto attack abilities being passively blocked and stuck on cooldown afterwards. If anything it could make people time attacks better.

SpyglassSep 11, 20153 votes

Teemo's blinding dart is not an auto-attack modifier, and thus block wouldn't interact with it at all - though I'll agree you probably shouldn't get silenced when Garen Q's your block.

The LovelessSep 11, 20152 votes

Yeah it would make more sense that, if he's blocking the attack, he shouldn't feel the side effects/debuffs. There's an indicator to tell people when his shield is up as well so I don't see why people complain if this was changed.

SangreDeNocheSep 12, 20152 votes

Here's a nifty trick: If you ult into a bush the enemy team doesn't have vision of then they don't see the aoe circle. After finding this out I tried it and had 3 successful ganks out of 3 bot lane xD OH 2nd neat trick, your jump has a higher range while you're falling from your ult. If those two tricks alone aren't enough Idk what is.

RalanrSep 12, 20151 votes

They are great tricks. I've made use of bush landing on many occasion.

healinglolzSep 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Here's a nifty trick: If you ult into a bush the enemy team doesn't have vision of then they don't see the aoe circle. After finding this out I tried it and had 3 successful ganks out of 3 bot lane xD OH 2nd neat trick, your jump has a higher range while you're falling from your ult. If those two tricks alone aren't enough Idk what is.

mmmm, the stun range is 600 no matter when you are using it, ye before 2 season ago pantheon were able to use all of his spells while he were falling, but this recived a fix and pantheon no longer can make it, about the brush thingy ye it is cool :P

Shroom JunkieSep 11, 20151 votes

No. Blocking 3 or so basic attacks while still either a. doing burst damage or b. being tanky as fuck and doing damage should not be buffed. Pantheon is fine as it is.

RalanrSep 11, 20151 votes

How is Pantheon that tanky? He's not tanky compared to actual tanks/bruisers/juggernauts.

And he can't block 3. He can block at most two in succession if he sets up his passive's stacks right.

Shroom JunkieSep 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

How is Pantheon that tanky? He's not tanky compared to actual tanks/bruisers/juggernauts.

And he can't block 3. He can block at most two in succession if he sets up his passive's stacks right.

If he builds tanky, he's obviously tanky. Then he's got his good base damages, AD and armor pen. from Black Cleaver, and he can block so many AA's(even from towers) in a fight. So he gets really tanky, still has a lot of damage, might even build Titanic Hydra if he's going almost full tank and if he's not he still has his other damage items(Probably Ravenous Hydra so 75 extra AD and the lifesteal).

And what I mean by 3 is its easy to get three, though I didn't mean in succession so if you're low enough to get one-shot by someone's AA then yeah, probably not going to get 3 blocks. Otherwise, you've got your first block if you've charged it up, second from your jump-stun, blow your Q and E then AA twice and you have another shield.

Like, I'm not saying he's OP but he definitely doesn't need buffed.

healinglolzSep 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If he builds tanky, he's obviously tanky. Then he's got his good base damages, AD and armor pen. from Black Cleaver, and he can block so many AA's(even from towers) in a fight. So he gets really tanky, still has a lot of damage, might even build Titanic Hydra if he's going almost full tank and if he's not he still has his other damage items(Probably Ravenous Hydra so 75 extra AD and the lifesteal).

And what I mean by 3 is its easy to get three, though I didn't mean in succession so if you're low enough to get one-shot by someone's AA then yeah, probably not going to get 3 blocks. Otherwise, you've got your first block if you've charged it up, second from your jump-stun, blow your Q and E then AA twice and you have another shield.

Like, I'm not saying he's OP but he definitely doesn't need buffed.

dude you have no clue what is pantheon in game, ye in paper he is awesome champion, but in game the story is different if you get caught or jump on somebody you are dead in less then 1 sec, pantheon's damage late game is so small compared to othe champs, most of champions can build 1 offensive item(trinity, botrk) and outdamage pantheon even if he has 3 offensive items(BC, HYDRA, LW) aka his core how come ? how is this balanced? Also most of champions has either 3-4 strong spells or strong autos and 1-2 strong spells, lets take a look at pantheon he has 2 "strong" spells Q and E, 1 sec stun and ultimate which is just a transport utility, so yeah pantheon is so underpowered and about the blocks do you really think that this passive is good late game ? Late game the situation looks something like -> q w e auto somebody make 1500 or even less on tanks and then pantheon explodes and even most of the times panth dies mid E, how come - how pantheon can block 3 times ?

RalanrSep 11, 20151 votes

You're mistaken on his W and his Ult being his strong spells. His Q is his strong spell, what with it's damage, inability to miss when choosing a target, and able to proc his E's passive.

But yeah, a lot of things are different on paper then they are in action. Pantheon being a AD caster (like Yorick , Talon , and Riven (maybe)) doesn't fully rely on his auto attacks like say JarvanIV or Olaf . He uses his spells for damage. The trade off for an AD caster is that unlike normal casters, they have decent to good auto attack damage and unlike Auto attackers they have versatility in their abilities. This is what I understand it as.

healinglolzSep 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You're mistaken on his W and his Ult being his strong spells. His Q is his strong spell, what with it's damage, inability to miss when choosing a target, and able to proc his E's passive.

But yeah, a lot of things are different on paper then they are in action. Pantheon being a AD caster (like , , and (maybe)) doesn't fully rely on his auto attacks like say or . He uses his spells for damage. The trade off for an AD caster is that unlike normal casters, they have decent to good auto attack damage and unlike Auto attackers they have versatility in their abilities. This is what I understand it as.

I meant that his strong spells are Q and E and that his W is just a 1 sec and his ult is a utility transport over the map, without damage, but anyways pantheon autos are as strong as support autos his AD at level 18 is one of the worst wtf is this ? _Olaf is mainly auto attacker, _ Riven has passive which boost her autos with decent value, talon passive gives him 10% stronger autos, yorick passive gives him 20% stronger autos if he has 4 ghouls and best of all J4 passive gives him 10% of target's max HP capped to 400 damage

So yeah as you can see the other AD casters, has passive which makes their autos to deal more damage or they scale with totall AD, i think that would be fair if pantheon AD per level is increased and at the end at level 18 to have 115-120, right now he has just 104 And also his Q and E must scale with total AD, instead bonus AD, oo and to keep him balanced his Q CD must be increased early and at level 5 to match the current one Right now the spell looks like Physical Damage: 65 / 105 / 145 / 185 / 225 (+ 140% bonus AD)
COOLDOWN: 4 It could be changed to something like 45 / 90 / 135 / 180 / 225 (+ 110% total AD /+ 120% total AD /+ 130% total AD /+ 140% total AD /+ 150% total AD) COOLDOWN: 8 / 7 / 6 / 5 / 4
current E Physical Damage Per Strike: 13 / 23 / 33 / 43 / 53 (+ 60% bonus AD) Champion Damage Per Strike: 26 / 46 / 66 / 86 / 106 (+ 120% bonus AD) it could be changed to something like 30 / 35 / 40 / 45 / 50 ( + 10% total AD/+ 20% total AD/+ 30% total AD/+ 40% total AD/+ 50% total AD) 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 (+ 20% total AD/+ 40% total AD/+ 60% total AD/+ 80% total AD/+ 100% total AD) This way his early damage will be almost same or abit lower, but he will be abl to build tanky and to do some damage, right now if pantheon builds tanky his damage is equal to 0 PS ofc these numbers are just example ones, rioters must tweak them, but you get the idea total AD scaling which increased with every level, abit lower early damage( you might say that it will be higher with current numbers, but due to the 2x higher cd it will be lower !!!) and tank pantheon to have some damage :))

RalanrSep 13, 20151 votes

You realize I pointed out Olaf because he's more focused on AAs unlike Pantheon.

Right?

Shroom JunkieSep 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

if you get caught or jump on somebody you are dead in less then 1 sec

Assuming you're behind. If you're ahead, you'll be the one killing. Feast or famine, ever heard of it?

pantheon's damage late game is so small compared to othe champs,

oh yeah early game champ that must be why Lee Sin is such a good pick, because its bad oh wait

most of champions can build 1 offensive item(trinity, botrk) and outdamage pantheon even if he has 3 offensive items(BC, HYDRA, LW) aka his core how come ? how is this balanced?

Because he's allowed to block 2 of those attacks, possibly three if the fight lasts long enough, or maybe even a towershot if it comes at him. That's why its balanced.

Also most of champions has either 3-4 strong spells or strong autos and 1-2 strong spells, lets take a look at pantheon he has 2 "strong" spells 1 sec stun and ultimate which is just a transport utility,

LOLOLOLOL Yeah this is where your argument ends. His passive lets him block tower shots. His Q is a point-and-click ranged(600 range, as much as the second highest's ranged champion's AA's[Ashe and Anivia]) nuke that deals 225 base damage, granted not a lot, but then to add to it... 140% bonus AD. Like I get its base but still... 140% for fucksake. His W gap closes, deals a bit of damage(AP so unless you're going AP is going to do essentially nothing), and then stuns for a second. I'll admit this one is kind of shitty except to engage but it does let you get your entire kit off pretty much. His E lets you crit whenever the enemy is low. Basically a built-in execute unless its a tank and that just makes taking him down that much faster. And then when activated does 26 at rank one(basically shit) and then 106 at rank 5(much better) and the big bang, 120% bonus AD. Three times. In an 0.75 second interval. That basically means if you land your stun(which obviously you are its fucking point and click) you basically land this for free. So 360% bonus AD not including your Q which is 140% bonus AD and then your basic attacks and autocrits after they get low enough... like wtf you think this guy is BAD?

And then for his ult... he gets to move about half way across the map after 3.5 seconds, if not visible to the enemy team they only see it after 2 seconds and 1.5 second before he's going to land, and then boom he nukes their face for 500 damage in a big-ass AOE that slows them all.

Not going to say he's strong because I admit, most of his damage is hard to land on multiple people because two abilities are single target, and he obviously has his AA's and then his cone damage is pretty small so you'll probably land it on your W target... but he's definitely, most definitely not weak. And not to the point of needing a buff.

Just because he doesn't have a 54% win rate and everyone is begging for nerfs does not mean he's weak. Don't be an idiot, we don't need a Garen with a stun and global mobility. He doesn't need to be overpowered as fuck to be viable.

healinglolzSep 12, 20151 votes

{quoted} Assuming you're behind. If you're ahead, you'll be the one killing. Feast or famine, ever heard of it?

This is not true even if you are way ahead you cant finish people 100 to 0

Because he's allowed to block 2 of those attacks, possibly three if the fight lasts long enough, or maybe even a towershot if it comes at him. That's why its balanced. LOLOLOLOL Yeah this is where your argument ends. His passive lets him block tower shots.

So what if it locks 2autos or a tower shot - this is nothing, pantheon has 0 damage and cant kill people

His Q is a point-and-click ranged(600 range, as much as the second highest's ranged champion's AA's[Ashe and Anivia]) nuke that deals 225 base damage, granted not a lot, but then to add to it... 140% bonus AD. Like I get its base but still... 140% for fucksake. His W gap closes, deals a bit of damage(AP so unless you're going AP is going to do essentially nothing), and then stuns for a second. I'll admit this one is kind of shitty except to engage but it does let you get your entire kit off pretty much. His E lets you crit whenever the enemy is low. Basically a built-in execute unless its a tank and that just makes taking him down that much faster. And then when activated does 26 at rank one(basically shit) and then 106 at rank 5(much better) and the big bang, 120% bonus AD. Three times. In an 0.75 second interval. That basically means if you land your stun(which obviously you are its fucking point and click) you basically land this for free. So 360% bonus AD not including your Q which is 140% bonus AD and then your basic attacks and autocrits after they get low enough... like wtf you think this guy is BAD?

Now about the ranges, most of people have some kind of cc with almost same range, so if you go and use q you will get cced and killed in less then 1 sec pantheon is more squishy then adc + he has no escape mechanic, about the scaling 140% BONUS AD most of the times pantheon has no more then 155, so ... his Q makes 225 + 245 = 470 and keep it in mind that people reduce this damage with 20-30-40% from their armor, so at the end his q makes 300-350 damage on 3000-5000 people, mmm yeah the damage is so high, about the E it makes 106+186 292x3= 876(and it is reduced to 650-700), yeah the damage is decent. but still it is not enough when you face 3000-5000 people

And then for his ult... he gets to move about half way across the map after 3.5 seconds, if not visible to the enemy team they only see it after 2 seconds and 1.5 second before he's going to land, and then boom he nukes their face for 500 damage in a big-ass AOE that slows them all.

Now about the ult this is my favourite part i made a video and time it the whole cast it takes 4,6-7 secs, hahah you are funy 500 damage heh, 1st if pantheon faces people which arent stupid he never will hit them(well ofc it might happen if he ult behing them when they are runing from pantheon's team, but anyways this is magic damage pantheon dont have magic pen, so the damage is cutted to 300-350 or even lower, if they make the ultimate faster and to make true damage will be way way better :)

Not going to say he's strong because I admit, most of his damage is hard to land on multiple people because two abilities are single target, and he obviously has his AA's and then his cone damage is pretty small so you'll probably land it on your W target... but he's definitely, most definitely not weak. And not to the point of needing a buff.

Even if you land on single target, still the damage is not enough to kill somebody hahahhaaha + he is so weak and as squishy as an ADC, without escape mechanic

Just because he doesn't have a 54% win rate and everyone is begging for nerfs does not mean he's weak. Don't be an idiot, we don't need a Garen with a stun and global mobility. He doesn't need to be overpowered as fuck to be viable.

I dont care about the winrates, i just want the champion to be abit more viable and when you jump on somebody to be able to kill him, not like now if you start E channel aka your pantheon's only damage, his target to escape without any problems, how is this fair every other champ if they catch somebody they can stay right behind them / slow them or just burst them in less then 1 sec how come pantheon to dont be able to do this ? This can be solved really easy all Pantheon needs is W to be increased to 1,5 or his E to slow ... that is it

RalanrSep 12, 20151 votes

You are seriously underestimating Pantheon's killing potential.

healinglolzSep 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You are seriously underestimating Pantheon's killing potential.

pantheon is shit in late game he cant even make 30% of enemy carries

RalanrSep 12, 20151 votes

He's an early game champion. Kinda wish he was a mid game champion, but he isn't.
http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-history/NA1/212142416 Take a gander at every normal game I played with Pantheon.

To quote my last game: Mordekaiser How is your panth getting all these kills? Pantheon What do you mean? Well your not op

Kept the grammar as I remembered it.

healinglolzSep 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

He's an early game champion. Kinda wish he was a mid game champion, but he isn't.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-history/NA1/212142416 Take a gander at every normal game I played with Pantheon.

To quote my last game: How is your panth getting all these kills? What do you mean? Well your not op

Kept the grammar as I remembered it.

o god in normals you can go full ad and be 15/0 or even better, try in ranked once you jump on somebody you will get exploded ! And also in normals most of the people stay inside the ult, in ranked they always dodge it and once you land you die

RalanrSep 12, 20151 votes

No. Nobody stays inside the ult if you aim it directly on them.

I don't know what you've been playing, but that's my experience.

healinglolzSep 12, 20151 votes