But graves and renekton's one are being removed?
WHAT THE **** IS THIS
graves has 48% win rate renekton has 49.7% win rate riven has 49.5% win rate
all 3 have similar pick rate except graves that has 5% more than them
and yet, graves and renekton are being nerfed while riven is being buffed? i'm facepalming so hard right now, and i feel terribly sorry for graves and renekton mains
Apocalypsic3 votesThis just looks like an intentional attempt at upvote farming.
Riven's animation cancels unlike the first two are 100% intended and she's balanced heavily around them.
And the changes are smalll QoL changes to benefit her and her opponent.
ACENOX1 votesrenekton can cancel animtions since 2011
Apocalypsic1 votesrenekton can cancel animtions since 2011
I was referring to the context OP was talking about.
AFilthyCaitMain1 votesp sure illaoi got hers removed too
LyingOnLine2 votesThat one was a major fucking bug tho.
Anyways, the TC is being stupid. They're making some incredibly minor changes to make Riven's animation canceling more consistent and removing her ability to cancel animations with emotes. This is both separate and different from removing Renek's ability to get free damage and Grave's ability to stay in the place after using ult.
Best princess EU4 votesand this isn't free damage?
Joxcab1 votesWow it's almost like a melee champion with a melee range stun can do damage if they Flash into melee range of an enemy champion who had so fucking little health they should have backed anyways instead of staying like a reckless idiot.
But hey I guess it's free damage because someone had to burn both Flash and their entire combo to tower dive an idiot who stayed in range when she was at like 10% health or less and no mana.
Captain Aishi1 votesI think the core problem is the speed at which riven combos her stuff. in that video, in the span of a single second (at 4:45), riven casts her E, flashes on her target, stuns with W while basic attacking and Q'ing to proc thunderlords, and has time to start casting her 2nd Q before the game timer switches to 4:46. If her target didn't instantly die, she would have had time to basic attack a second time in that same second while having an attack speed of 0.7
Joxcab1 votesKayle had almost no health. Anyone could do that easily.
greekvandaL1 votesGraves and Rene can have their shit removed but Lucian still rapes every lane. kek
MooseLaBoss1 voteshow is she getting buffed?
also renek is strong as fuck as well as graves.
Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votesIt's being made easier because unlike Graves, Illaoi, Cassiopeia and Renekton's, Riven's animation cancelling is 100% intentional. Riven is "balanced" around her animation cancelling. When Riot adjusts the damage of her abilities, her base values ETC, her animation cancelling increasing her DPS is taken into account.
When it comes to Graves, Renekton, Cassiopeia and Illaoi (Which btw was a massive bug and was by no means 'Just an animation' cancel, it made the projectile invisible, let alone also cancelling the animation), the fact they were able to cancel animations that were supposed to be hindrances was not. (Graves Ult knocking him back, Illaoi's E having a large cast and travel time for example).
When these champions were being looked at for balance changes, being able to cancel what is supposed to be hindrances, was not being taken into account, this as a result warped their win-rates.
Riven's animation cancelling being made smoother isn't just a straight up buff either, as it makes her A LOT more readable when you are fighting her. She won't suddenly warp from one animation to another, but rather progress from one to another in a way that is, not more fair, but rather more understandable.
TEA Nietzsche 1 votesAll 3 are very different in how their animation cancelling behaves.
Graves AA R E makes it so that he completely cancels the pushback - which made it so that Graves would have to use his ultimate as a finisher and not part of his combo because he can't really chase after ulting. With that cancel he completely circumvents this intended drawback rather than simply dealing more damage in a short amount of time.
Riven's animation cancelling is scripted:
"For the record, Riven is one of the few champions in the game that have intentionally scripted animation cancels." Her Q cancel makes it so that the time in which Riven is locked in the Q animation is shortened so that she can use her AA sooner (her Q "resets" her AA timer). All it does is decrease the time it takes Riven to use her full Q+AA combo. Another notable thing is her doublecast, it's essentially being able to W and Q at the same time after using her dash. This was not intended but is getting preserved.
Renekton's animation cancelling is less known so I'll just link a nice combo: https://clips.twitch.tv/LongDoubtfulCookieJKanStyle
Most notable and importantly there is the W cancel: Renekton has a rather long animation lock when using his W in which he is unable to move. Using R/tiamat enables him to interrupt this lock. This is unchanged.
And then there is his E-QAA. After dashing Renekton is able to autoattack within the Q animation (see video). While it is very different to Riven's Q combo there is some similiarity to Riven's doublecast: using two different animations at the same time after a dash. A true equivalent would be if Riven was able to autoattack during her 3rd Q after her dash, but it's still sort of similiar.
Conclusion: it's very understandable and reasonable that the Graves animation cancel get's deleted as it completely negates a drawback rather than just increasing the combo speed.
Renekton's animation cancel and Riven's Q combo are very different, but there is some similiarity to Riven's doublecast that is intentionally being kept in the game despite not being intended. As Renekton's EQAA doesn't really do much more than just increasing his combo speed I do not think that it should get removed. He needs a nerf, but taking someething away that has been learned by mains should only happen when it's absolutely necessary - and in Renekton's case it is not.
EDIT: Apparantly they buffed Renekton's cancelling: https://www.reddit.com/r/RenektonMains/comments/6913tn/everything_i_have_found_so_far_gameplay_breaking/
Joxcab1 votesNot this shit again.
Graves' was a major fucking bug that completely went against his design. Riot themselves fucking said it was a bug multiple times and one they needed to fix. It was just additional power on an already strong champion.
Renekton's was because he could get up to 3 AA resets and a fourth if you included Tiamat/Hydra. Which is more than any other champion in the game, and even Riven. Riven cancels other things besides just autoattacks, and is faster at that, but not consecutively canceling purely 3-4 AAs in a row. Riot deemed an earlygame monster didn't need this.
Riven's was a bug but it fit her theme more than her original anyways and thus it was incorporated into her kit and she was subsequently rebalanced around it. She's also not being buffed, the changes are making it more reasonable. Like removing how an emote could somehow cancel animations for instance. Riven is specifically balanced around her playstyle entirely being dependent on how good you are at animation canceling. You could not know canceling for the other two and still do just fine for the most part. Do that on Riven and you'd be absolutely trashed on.
Thefrostyviking1 votesGraves and rene are way easier than Riven is at a higher lvl. Graves only need basic ADC skill and the ability to press like 2-3 keys in the right order? Rene is a bit worse but he was already damm strong without the combo and went over the top with it.
Riven on the other hand is balanced around her animation canceling and has like 10 different combos she can pull with each being slightly different. Not to mention failing a combo is heavily punished.
For instance, graves (at his range) in the midgame.
AA-Q-AA-R-E-AA is often enough to kill even a skirmisher or a duelist at the same lvl. Before he even loses a third of his health.
Not to mention squishy carries.
Darkdemon6531 votesMaybe I misread it but it sounded like it was getting nerfed but easier to do.
Rexxiee1 votesBoth renekton and graves are a lot stronger than riven right now.
