I don't see Ryze as much of a "machine gun mage"

Ralanr·Mar 23, 2017·24 votes·2,039 views

Rather I see him more as a "shotgun mage" due to his waveclear potential. Now personally, I like how his waveclear works because I enjoy seeing it bounce and multiply. His waveclear is almost as satisfying as GP barrels.

Now this is just a personal opinion, but when I think "machine gun" in league, I think high intensity single target focus. Basically how ADCs normally work and how Cassiopeia works. They are mainly single target and hit their opponents very rapidly.

Ryze doesn't feel like that. Ryze (imo) feels like someone who is going to set up some burst through multiplication of his abilities or hit you by using your minions as path to get to you.

Riot, if you want to make him "machine gun" then I think you should make his damage less AoE. If you want AoE, then maybe call him a "shotgun mage".

Just my thoughts on Ryze.

39 Comments

Who is TaliyahMar 23, 201717 votes

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Jeddy017Mar 23, 20172 votes

Ah, good times. I miss Taliyah.

Sahn UzalMar 23, 201713 votes

His waveclear is almost as satisfying as GP barrels.

https://media.giphy.com/media/o41sT7HoSQbo4/giphy.gif

Yee Ocean coloured mage be nowhere nearly as satisfying as plundering dee Unionwave's booty!

crippler38Mar 23, 20171 votes

shrek is love shrek is life.

Stars ShaperMar 23, 20177 votes

The thing is that Ryze is a shotgun mage with the fire rate of a machinegun.

5000000000000000Mar 23, 20174 votes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_shotgun

Stars ShaperMar 23, 20176 votes

"Automatics typically have much shorter barrels than pump-action shotguns"

This sentence doesn't apply to Ryze :P

StandgroundingMar 23, 20172 votes

Gangplank

junglerboy16Mar 24, 20171 votes

Short range mage, and in a shotgun, shorter barrels means more spread means more damage, soooooo...

PennsMar 23, 20174 votes

I like how his waveclear works because I enjoy seeing it bounce and multiply

I dont because he just keeps spraying the wave with his rune aids and I cant get anywhere near as melee champ. Almost as annoying as Anivia pressing R on a wave item 3070

He isnt really as "machine gun-y" as some Ryzes before their reworks, but who needs that when your 2s cooldown Q crits for like 800 with 2 items ecks dee

RalanrMar 23, 20172 votes

Well he is a ranged laner. So that's a given for annoying melee.

ShaolinToiletMar 24, 20171 votes

I'd rather lane vs Quinn than ryze

MelvearMar 23, 20172 votes

Spells don't crit :P

SH AzykanMar 23, 20171 votes

when ryze tags someone with E, his Q will "Crit" that target for bonus damage

crippler38Mar 23, 20172 votes

a spell crit works like an auto crit in that it's bonus damage based on a percentage of the damage you would of done normally.

the difference is that physical damage crits all have the same value and you can buy auto damage critical but not spell damage critical.

examples would be anivia, or ryze.

BladeSteelMar 23, 20171 votes

If you buy an ie on anivia or ryze it increases their crit damage.

crippler38Mar 23, 20171 votes

oh does it? I could see that working since IE increases all crit damage and phys crit is base 200.

and since there are no items to add crit chance to abilities I can definitely see IE working out like that.

sounds not fun to deal with, and not especially item efficient but funny if it works.

junglerboy16Mar 24, 20171 votes

Actually interested to see how an AD Mana tank Ryze would work...

Building something like item 3042 item 3027 item 3025 item 3031 item 3508 item 3111

40% CDR, a fair amount of AD, and the muramana passive gives you huge mixed damage between your spells and AAs.

crippler38Mar 24, 20171 votes

if I ever get my gf into league first thing I'm going to do is buy ryze and try this.

MelvearMar 24, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Actually interested to see how an AD Mana tank Ryze would work...

Building something like

40% CDR, a fair amount of AD, and the muramana passive gives you huge mixed damage between your spells and AAs.

The thing with a build like this and Ryze is that you do get a fair mix of both but since his cooldowns are low anyway, especially once at 40% cdr, you rarely get to a point where you just AA. There just isn't any incentive to do it, since you'll out dps your AA with spells and you have plenty of mana to keep casting them, and your cooldown just pop back up constantly.

MelvearMar 24, 20171 votes

{quoted}

a spell crit works like an auto crit in that it's bonus damage based on a percentage of the damage you would of done normally.

the difference is that physical damage crits all have the same value and you can buy auto damage critical but not spell damage critical.

examples would be anivia, or ryze.

Those aren't critical hits, they are multipliers. They are not random, you just have to apply the right debuff or have the correct sequence of abilities to trigger the effect. Crits are by nature unreliable and surprising, except for Ashe and anyone who somehow reaches 100% crit (Yasuo of course, few others get there). However, I know I'll eat triple damage from frostbite if I'm slowed by Anivia. I never know when Jinx will crit me with a rocket.

crippler38Mar 24, 20171 votes

you uh, do know that critical hits are a multiplier, and crit chance is the chance that the multiplier will happen, right?

MelvearMar 24, 20172 votes

{quoted}

you uh, do know that critical hits are a multiplier, and crit chance is the chance that the multiplier will happen, right?

Yes. However, unlike the examples you listed, it's a chance based multiplier. I can't just trade with someone in lane thinking I have 10% crit, I AA'd 9 times, without crits, next one is a crit!

Ryze and Anivia know exactly what's gonna happen, and so does their opponent.

That's a sizable difference

LuggMar 23, 20172 votes

I think Ryze is in the best spot he has ever been. He is where he should be in the risk/reward matrix. You risk falling behind early since he is slow to get going, but he is a monster once you do.

Big LincolnMar 23, 20171 votes

a machine gun super-DPS mage shouldn't have AoE waveclear or hard CC tbf

but I don't want them to spend their resources on a fifth rework when we have so many shitters left

CatastropMar 23, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PnVruUA7,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-03-23T13:01:31.213+0000)

a machine gun super-DPS mage shouldn't have hard CC tbf

On a basic ability of all things too.

SH AzykanMar 23, 20171 votes

and it is also point and click to make sure you cant dodge it :D kinda kills the rest of his kit being skillshots if he can just force you to stand still...

Taliyah RocksMar 23, 20171 votes

His rework changed nothing. At his core Ryze is still that champion that hovers his cursor over you and faceroll his keyboard to delete you while you can't move.

RalanrMar 23, 20171 votes

Except you know, dodging his abilities when he doesn't root you.

5000000000000000Mar 23, 20171 votes

Take summoner 1 summoner 4 ######kappa

ExcusemeFellowsMar 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Except you know, dodging his abilities when he doesn't root you.

Or there's QSS, which also has some mr to help you.

Maximum MordeMar 23, 20171 votes

I dunno, machine guns wreaked mass havoc in ww1 and 2.

h5LYF41LamMar 23, 20171 votes

right now ryze's e is impossible to spread on more than 1 champion in the late game and thats his biggest problem,along with the hard nerfs he got it all brought him to a less than 40% winrate even with a playrate as high as his. Riot made a big mistake ruining a champion for 99.99% of the playerbase just to not waste 1 of faker's bans.

SpecterVonBarenMar 23, 20171 votes

When I think machinegun I think quantity, not quality. Machineguns, when they were in use in the world wars, weren't about accuracy, nor were they about being single target, they were about filling the air with as much metal as possible to mow down large groups of enemy troops or make it so it was easier to hit moving targets since law of averages meant you'd hit them with something even if you were just aiming in their general direction.

If Ryze is to be a machinegun mage, as in, not in terms of just spamming spells, then they need to be inaccurate and they need to come out fast.

junglerboy16Mar 24, 20171 votes

Ryze USED to be a machine gun mage, but then they reworked him for the Nth time...

AhristocatsMar 24, 20171 votes

the only thing that changed from old ryze to new ryze is that old ryze was point and click but had less range on all his spells and in exchange he was as tanky as j4

the reason they reworked ryze was to stop making him binary like before "am i in range? yes i have no counterplay/no i can't do shit"

i just wish new ryze didn't have waveclear because this is what imbalanced him