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@Riot OK, real talk; Wouldn't a CDR/Mana Rylais only make the issue worse?

Goodnight Nunu·10/12/2016, 6:39:49 PM·19 votes·1,151 views

The problem with it currently is that: A) It's being rushed B) It provides strong utility with a ton of damage C) It's being built on 99% of the mages, even those who wouldn't need a slow to function

A few of the abuse cases are champions like All champions who already have strong CC and kits that revolve around your opponents being able to dodge Not exactly easy when you're slowed to a crawl.

Now, Meddler put up two options for Rylais A) MANA/CDR or simply B) Chipping off AP and slow strength and make it a defensive option

Wouldn't option A) like make things worse? Most mages would just continue rushing it, especially if it were to give CDR AND Mana to spam even more, getting a mana sustain item that also SLOWS? Heck yeah!

If anything we would see it built even more often, hell, EVERY mage would build it because of getting A) A mana item B) HUGE utility C) CDR AND AP In ONE neatly wrapped up package

Sure, health is more universal a stat as everyone can use it but the problem champions are ALL Mana users. Do we really want to encourage them rushing Rylais even more?

29 Comments

Best princess EU10/12/2016, 6:51:51 PM9 votes

it would, and riot would be stupid to ignore the problem of rylai

apprently the problem is that "hp makes it a must buy on anyone"-meddler

fucking hell.

Nagoh Shan10/12/2016, 7:01:18 PM6 votes

Two reason rylai's is popular:

No other 100AP option now that Zhonya's is 70AP
Damage for mages is conditional on keeping people in your zone as long as possible (Azir, Viktor, Cass), or landing delayed skillshots (Brand, Cass, Syndra)

Make another 100AP item, and cut some of the unneeded delay from some kits, and Rylai's wouldn't even need to be changed.

ChaoticPinecone10/12/2016, 11:25:30 PM3 votes

Meddler pretty much stated that the Damage portion of Rylais is going to get nerfed no matter what other changes they make to it. I can see this going as far down as 60 (matching Abyssal) but not further than that. Even if you give it mana and CDR, is losing a large chunk of AP worth getting the Rylais over Morello? Youre basically giving up your one-item powerspike in favor of utility.

Also disagree with your "Abuse Cases" list. The primary users of Rylais are supposed to be DoT mages who can repeatedly apply the slow - Cassio and Azir are good examples of champions that can do this. Viktor as well if you consider his ult. Other notable champions are Rumble, Sol, Vlad, Ammumu, Singed, Malz, and Kennan. The champions Rylais is intended for are supposed to be able to refresh the slow multiple times.

The problem is when burst mages get Rylais because its such an efficient item. Syndra is an example of this: Syndra really doesnt have too much use for the passive with the slow on her W and the Stun on her E. Her W already slows and outranges her Q (so you arent "setting up" the W with the Q) and her E stuns for as long as the slow. But when you only have 3 100AP options and only Rylais provides both offensive burst and defensive stats, the passive slow is just icing on the cake. 1-shot-burst mages with up to a 345% AP ratio (I would say up to 300% AP ratio reliably) buying Rylais are the abuse cases - DoT mages are not.

HazyCloud710/12/2016, 9:57:28 PM1 votes

Viktor does NOT have strong CC. His only cc is the gravity field which has a cast time, and a time to actually arm, and requires his opponents to stand in it for 1.5 seconds to actually get stunned. And on top of that the range is pretty short.

Azir has a displacement knock up ult and a slow on his Q, Cassiopeia has a massive slow and grounded effect on her miasmia, Syndra has a slow on W and a stun. Those 3 have strong CC. Stop spouting nonsense.

President Swa1n10/12/2016, 10:59:11 PM1 votes

Disclaimer: I'm probably wrong, PLS no down vote. Prepare to kill me if I'm saying something incredibly dumb.

The way I understand it, currently, it offers so much AP that it's useful on most mages. Wouldn't CDR/Mana ONLY make it a more tentative choice for champions like Brand?

Elikain10/13/2016, 9:50:48 AM1 votes

If champions who can abuse Rylai's for permaslows are all mana users and are currently building it, then their mana pool isn't the issue if they can forgo one item to purchase Rylai's instead. Varying values of CD reduction is already offered on multiple items for AP champions so people already cap out. Putting a CDR passive on it wouldn't cause it to be rushed in every situation or even more so than it currently is.

At least that's how i see those possible directions. Those are still not confirmed changes for Rylai's however, it's nerf is guaranteed.

FakeGravity10/13/2016, 5:04:49 PM1 votes

i think the main issue is how champions that already have a slow build it anyway regardless of need, just to make other skills slow too, but also how some skills are just too good with a slow to not build rylais

why would cho gath build it since he have his Q already? just to make E and W slow too, meanwhile good look chasing or escaping from a rylais singed

hhaavviikk10/12/2016, 7:13:02 PM1 votes

how did you leave out ryze

Dengeden10/12/2016, 9:33:55 PM1 votes

It was/is probably considered because all the other NLR options are situational at best.

I can see why they'd be hesitant to remove that from the table in light of the incoming assassin rework.