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Seriously, can we stop pretending Mages NEED Rylais?

Goodnight Nunu·10/16/2016, 10:27:47 PM·116 votes·6,246 views

I see so many people say that Rylais is 100% necessary for their beloved mages to succeed.

Newsflash!: Their kits were designed to work on their own.

Brand's job is NOT to permaslow you with his 4 second passive or just keep you slowed long enough for his spells to kill you. He's supposed to be this explosive AoE Nuker who'll obliterate the entire enemy team with his 3 stack AoE passive. That's what he's supposed to be, no Rylais needed, just enough damage to do so!

Viktor's job is to just reign supreme in Teamfights with strong AoE spells- He has a huge AoE Slow/stun/Knockup field, a strong AoE Nuke, a mobile Q kite spell and a devastating AoE team fight nuke cloud

Syndra's job is NOT to slow you with repeated Q spams that lead up into a R instakill just cause she managed to keep you slowed long enough for her to kill you. She's about setting up her balls, stun you and kill you with the setup she had with managing her balls

Nidalee's job is NOT to slow you with long ranged spears and go for a kill after repeatedly having hit it and kept you in range to all in you.

The pattern is clear; Rylais provides an ADDED bonus to these champion's kit, not something that's 100% necessary. In fact I'd argue that the slow is excessive power and being abused just because the item offers a ton of AP:

Seriously, anyone who thinks it should be a core part of a Mage's build is either: A) High B) Dumb as heck C) A masochist or, most likely D) A mage main

EDIT; Can we all agree that at LEAST the AP and Slow should be lowered?

200 Comments

NineTailedMystic10/17/2016, 1:33:52 AM17 votes

Mages don't need Rylai's, they need the 100 AP Riot slapped on it.

Keepe10/16/2016, 10:50:48 PM16 votes

I disagree, considering the mobility that Riot keeps introducing.

HOWEVER.

I do think the slow could be reworked a bit, and the AP lowered.

But hey, an opinion is an opinion.

Very Hard Engage10/16/2016, 11:06:14 PM16 votes

remove my slow, but give me more damage instead

#bring back 120 ap options.

Naagiinii10/17/2016, 12:19:26 AM12 votes

Jhin doesnt NEED item 3031 because he already crits

Jeanne fan club10/16/2016, 11:09:55 PM12 votes

---> because ad's are perfectly balanced in every way and the fact that there is a strong ap item is detrimental to my success as an ad player because it is op.

I invite a mage main to express their opinion so my ad circlejerk can downvote your post.

Xx_123KappaRossInbound321_xX

majulito10/17/2016, 1:46:40 AM11 votes

Rylais is popular because ap is down has a whole and cdr is up. Before you had to go out of your way to get high cdr at the cost of damage. Now cdr is on everything and damage is now more in item actives (protobelt and the icicle thing). Rylais was more situational before because there were more high damage items, and before it was either you dumped all your spells at once and killed the guy or you didn't and now you have nothing up. In either case you didn't need a slow. Now you know your not gonna kill the guy but your spells are up a lot faster so you get another go at it and rylais helps you land the next combo.

Rylais itself hasn't changed since 5.22 (where its cost went from 3000 to 3200). However a lot of other items have changed and rylais has found itself at the top because everything else pales in comparison to it.

Instead of destroying an item that wasn't an issue before why don't we try to fix the other items so it doesn't look like the best choice every time. Lower available cdr (in the game as a whole imo) so its something you have to opt into instead of it being added on because theres no way around it. Bring back high end ap items. If rylais is still a problem then revert the 4.13 change where ryalis was given 20 more ap and lost 100 health. Yes its been that long that rylais has been 100 ap and no one complained.

Marshbouy10/16/2016, 10:33:31 PM10 votes

No mordekaiser players yet? wow.

Nagoh Shan10/16/2016, 11:21:24 PM10 votes

Viktor has a 42.5% winrate when not using Rylai's.

For comparison, Mordekaiser has a 41.8% winrate without Rylai's

Viktor is dependent on the item.

Meep Man10/17/2016, 1:23:25 AM7 votes

There is only a few characters right now to where Rylai's is their life source and that's because they have been basically balanced around this fact, and that's: Mordekaiser Singed Viktor Heimerdinger

If Mordekaiser doesn't have the slow, he is basically permanently kited and, since he has no crowd control, he becomes worthless to the team. Singed's entire being revolves around getting Rylai's basically. It's just SO good on him that any nerf to it is a nerf to him. New Viktor wouldn't land half of his upgraded E's without Rylai's and his ultimate would be really bad without it. His only possible CC without Rylai's is his W which is arguably worse than Veigar's E as far as reliability goes. Heimerdinger's turrets apply the slow. Heimerdinger is all about kiting people under his towers and letting his turrets deal with them. Connect the dots and you realize Heimerdinger relies on having Rylai's and Zhonya's to participate meaningfully in the game.

Aurelion Sol is also arguable, but I don't know much about the guy.

Evewynn10/17/2016, 1:17:02 AM5 votes

I don't care if Rylais is dumpstered, just give us another 100 AP item.

Mogarl10/17/2016, 7:06:47 AM5 votes

I'm a little confused why you are so aggressive in this post. I don't think I've seen anyone saying "Rylais is perfectly fine", but I've seen plenty of people saying that it is too powerful. I don't think anyone disagrees with this so I simply don't understand how you think this is a newsflash to anyone.

Lugg10/16/2016, 11:12:47 PM4 votes

You are ignoring the most important reason why mages build Rylais, to counter the high mobility champions. This makes it a must buy for mages.

Plus your argument is completely wrong on every side. Brand wants it to keep the enemies from moving apart so they take more damage from the AoE effects. Viktor wants them slowed to get hit again by the second burst of Death Ray. Syndra wants them slowed down to set up her multi-player stun. Nid doesn't really need it (simply because she is broken as hell), but it doesn't hurt.

To combat the huge mobility creep that has taken over the game, mages absolutely need to build it. If you don't want it to be a required item, get Riot to gut the stupid levels of mobility on some champs.

Anonagon10/16/2016, 10:54:35 PM4 votes

I would take it one step further and say that not only is slows on every ability not necessary, but its downright abusive and really shouldn't be in the game at all.

The ability to buy a permanent slow on an item (and yes, Frozen Mallet is a problem too, even if its only built on Gnar) is just not something that should exist. If you feel like you NEED another slow to function, there's Iceborn, GLP, BotRK, Gunblade, and Frost Queen's.

(Morde doesn't count in all this. They really need to give him a slow in his kit.)

Squidward Dab10/17/2016, 1:35:50 AM4 votes

Honestly, I don't mind nerfing rylais ap but if we're gonna do that then can we pls get another 100 ap item

CerealBoxOfDoom10/17/2016, 1:17:20 AM3 votes

So basically instead of rylais you want to give mages so much damage that they will never need to slow you... think carefully

dEAdbUs10/17/2016, 11:16:17 AM3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hentaî Senpaî,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7GiuXabE,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-10-16T22:27:47.606+0000)

I see so many people say that Rylais is 100% necessary for their beloved mages to succeed.

That's true, and here is why:

Brand's job is NOT to permaslow you with his 4 second passive or just keep you slowed long enough for his spells to kill you. He's supposed to be this explosive AoE Nuker who'll obliterate the entire enemy team with his 3 stack AoE passive. That's what he's supposed to be, no Rylais needed, just enough damage to do so!

His damage is comes from his passive, and to proc it Brand needs to hit traget with at least 3 skills. Q and W are skillshots. If before MYMU Brand was able to poke with W and still deal some damage, now he needs to hit enemies with 2 skillshots. We have Ekko, Yasuo, LB, Lee Sin, Ahri and many more mobile champions. Brand suffering in mobile creep meta. And all he can do is to slow his enemies with Rylai. Plus it stacks with Mask. If you have better options how to hit mobilie champions without slow, pls tell me

Viktor's job is to just reign supreme in Teamfights with strong AoE spells- He has a huge AoE Slow/stun/Knockup field, a strong AoE Nuke, a mobile Q kite spell and a devastating AoE team fight nuke cloud

If you'll try to read what Riot wrote about mage itemisation in you will know "Rabadon as first item is now uneffective, but after couple AP items he gives more AP than before." So what Viktor should buy if not Rabadon? Zhonia is nerfed, everything is nerfed. Rylai is super cool because of his high AP, high HP (in 6th season we have so high damage, so some tankiness is just 'must-have') and slow. Rylai is so popular not because he became stronger, but because in MYMU Riots nerfed all alternatives to the ground.

Syndra's job is NOT to slow you with repeated Q spams that lead up into a R instakill just cause she managed to keep you slowed long enough for her to kill you. She's about setting up her balls, stun you and kill you with the setup she had with managing her balls

Syndra was one-shot machine. Most mages were one-shot machines, but after MYMU they're not anymore. What mages can do then? KITE. KITE AND KILL. It's a new meta for mages. Is it because Rylai is bad? Nope, it's because how MYMU changed mages and their items.

Seriously, anyone who thinks it should be a core part of a Mage's build is either: A) High B) Dumb as heck C) A masochist or, most likely D) A mage main

Or Riot desiger, because they made MYMU, they made Rylai as item without alternatives.

Can we all agree that at LEAST the AP and Slow should be lowered?

Right after mages will get better alternatives. First of all, Rylai nerfs will be direct nerfs to Brand and Malzahar.

Redaga10/17/2016, 10:44:46 PM2 votes

"Newsflash!: Their kits were designed to work on their own." Is not happy with your comment Xerath

Krystle Kris10/18/2016, 8:05:57 AM2 votes

I see conversations about Morde needing this item, Aurelion Sol, etc, but there's one champion that I think really does need this to succeed.

Taliyah. I know, I know, I'm probably the only person in the world that actually plays her (partly because I can't help but love the champion herself, lore, personality, etc), but it feels like that you're relatively useless until you get Rylai's. Mostly because her only other form of CC is on an over-ten-second cooldown and it synergizes well with her Q. Plus, as others have stated, the health and AP really help in her build path when she doesn't really have an escape option (except Ult but that can't even be used reliably in fights as an escape). Protobelt helps this in some regard, but it's still a bit difficult.

My opinion? Give it much less AP and give it much more health. It's mainly an item to support your kit, anyway, so treat it as such. Those that love the health to keep a bit tanky and love the slow will still pick it up, but it should reduce the amount of mages picking it up because it has such high AP. Of course, another high AP item should be given back in compensation, but that's how it should go.

I mean, look at Frozen Mallet, the AD alternative. It has like 30 AD and 700 health or something like that. Shouldn't Rylai's be similar?