So let me get this straight.

Goodnight Nunu·Dec 21, 2015·147 votes·6,118 views

Riot's vision for Mordekaiser is the following: He is a collossus in a giant suit of armor... ...who has one of the shittiest base armor in the game (20) ...who is supposed to go up against ranged AD champions with said armor ...who actively handicaps his support for having to come up with ways to make up for his non-existent lane presence and range ...whose title (now changed, thank god) was supposed to be Mordekaiser, the Mordekaiser (Lord of Death) ...who is apparently a marksman, aside from having no range and no significant late game dps to make up for it, basically being the exact opposite of a marksman.

Riot, give me what you've been smoking, because it must've been some good sh*t.

Sincerely,

A Bard main who hates playing with Mordekaiser.

79 Comments

MecarDec 21, 201545 votes

Okay, I just wanted to tell this : Stop. Saying. He. Is. A. Marksman. He's just a fighter that can go bot. Irelia Can go mid. That doesn't make her a mage.

I agree with everything else tho.

insaiyanbaccaDec 21, 20157 votes

pretty sure his role tag was actually changed to marksman, iirc

BijornDec 21, 201526 votes

{quoted}

Okay, I just wanted to tell this : Stop. Saying. He. Is. A. Marksman. He's just a fighter that can go bot. Can go mid. That doesn't make her a mage.

I agree with everything else tho.

Except...that...his role has been changed to marksman on the pbe*...

*TSubject to change but role changes and titles rarely get changed. Only a very few select times they have, and I doubt this one will be changed back.

MecarDec 21, 20158 votes

{quoted}

Except...that...his role has been changed to marksman on the pbe*...

*Title is subject to change but role changes and titles rarely get changed. Only a very few select times they have, and I doubt this one will be changed back.

Oh okay... Sry then. But that's a retarded change :o

UrPalAlDec 22, 20152 votes

They actually get changed all the time. (Lord of Death > Iron Revenant)

charcharmunroDec 22, 20151 votes

Actually, they really don't get changed all that often. And when they do get changed, it's usually for reworks.

UrPalAlDec 22, 20151 votes

They get changed when they need to, all you need to do is voice your opinion. Riot listens, they just don't listen when people are talking like idiots, even if they're right.

BijornDec 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

They actually get changed all the time. (Lord of Death > Iron Revenant)

When was the last time you saw a champs' roles changed? It rarely happens. As for the title change for Mord, if you kept up on why it was changed it was because his name wouldve been "Lord of death the Lord of death". So ya. That is a pretty shitty example. I believe the last title change before that was Fiora, but as for roles, I can't remember a single one.

UrPalAlDec 23, 20151 votes

Let me rephrase my statement, the point I was trying to make was that things get changed when people ask for change. I think that's the point here, which is a good thing, I don't know why you would scold a company for that, there are companies out there that don't listen to the community at all.

Though it does take a lot of sound from the community to cause Riot to make a change (which it needs to to be sure it's what is wanted), they make the needed changes in the end. That's a good thing.

BijornDec 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Let me rephrase my statement, the point I was trying to make was that things get changed when people ask for change. I think that's the point here, which is a good thing, I don't know why you would scold a company for that, there are companies out there that don't listen to the community at all.

Though it does take a lot of sound from the community to cause Riot to make a change (which it needs to to be sure it's what is wanted), they make the needed changes in the end. That's a good thing.

I'm not necessarily scolding Riot for changing the role for Mord, more so just pointing out that Riot did in fact change his role to a marksman, when he does not fit the role but they are just trying to force him into it.

I am also saying I do not see Riot changing the role back to what it was (fighter - mage) as they are hell-bent on making him a bruiser-style adc replacement which is obviously not working. When Mord was 100% pick/ban it was due to him being overtuned (read OP) with his 3rd Q. That was all he had and was the only thing that allowed him to do well bot. The issue is that Mord players still use him in top and mid as he is horrendous in bot now. Hell, he is pretty bad in every lane right now as there are so many champs that can easily shut him down. Don't expect Riot to change his role back as, like I said, they are focused on balancing him around bot lane. I understand that this game changes and evolves, but saying that "this is fine" sits very poorly with Mord mains.

UrPalAlDec 23, 20151 votes

I think the reason they're trying to send him back is because they believe that his kit is too toxic to be strong in a solo land. Their current plan is to offer a powerful Champion, that does however have clear weaknesses that can only be filled by a support. The idea I suppose is to preserve his kit this way to certain extent, and still allow him to be viable in a solo lane.

The only problem is, that's a lot to tackle. On one hand they want to make a champion OP, but weak in certain areas that can be lessoned by a support like say Thresh, Leona, or Name (just random examples). And on the other hand they want to make him viable in a solo land and then lead him to thrive later. I don't know how that could be done to be honest.

NommyPancakeDec 21, 20152 votes

That doesn't make sense.

Whenever I think of marksman, I think think ranged attack, using something as projectile...

It's like saying that Wind Wall can block "ground attack".... wait...

A Miss FortuneDec 21, 20151 votes

You haven't seen those annoying AP Irelia players though.

THE D1CDec 22, 20151 votes

Runeglaive Irelia perhaps?

ChaosThiefDec 21, 201521 votes

They were clearly smoking grave's cigar.

(Obligatory joke is obligatory)

ModKnightsKemplarDec 21, 201512 votes

Good points. The Murder Lord is being continually disrespected by these silly changes...

MrWasjigDec 21, 20158 votes

For a moment I thought I'd found yet another Malicious Metal thread.

It's obvious Riot gives zero shits about Mordekaier or else this abomination of a rework wouldn't have gone through.

-Sincerely, someone who doesn't give a shit about Morde but is sick of hearing about him.

I Miss CannonDec 22, 20151 votes

same same but same

Fair ChampionDec 22, 20158 votes

As a Bard player, I never thought I would see the day where a Bard was able to justifiably complain about another laner. 9 months ago, there were many people who would have said the same thing about Bard - how no ADC would ever want to pair up with a support that has no damage, situational utility, a risky ult, and usually no presence in lane.

My, how the tables have turned - now it's the Bards complaining about other bot lane champs. Shows just how volatile the metagame...

DeathBurstDec 21, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hentaî Senpaî,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LqEnmGWZ,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-12-21T14:24:34.091+0000)

Riot's vision for Mordekaiser is the following: He is a collossus in a giant suit of armor... ...who has one of the shittiest base armor in the game (20)

Ok, right. That's a bit sad. I'd like a buff too.

...who is supposed to go up against ranged AD champions with said armor

humm, yeah, and?...

...who actively handicaps his support for having to come up with ways to make up for his non-existent lane presence and range

Sure, because a Vayne doesn't handicap her support at all, with her non-existent lane presence. Also, a properly played Morde has a good presence. Even without range. Do you know his W also heals YOU, if you position properly? Advance to deal some damage, and shrug the poke with his W heal.

...whose title (now changed, thank god) was supposed to be Mordekaiser, the Mordekaiser (Lord of Death)

It was changed. Maybe you could focus on the reality instead of desperately searching for bad reasons to whine.

...who is apparently a marksman, aside from having no range and no significant late game dps to make up for it, basically being the exact opposite of a marksman.

He is not a Marksman. He is a duo-lane carry. Marksman can go in solo lane (Vayne/Quinn top, Graves/Kindred Jungle, Lucian mid, etc.) and other classes can go in duo-lane. Open your mind.

tl;dr: Stop spurting idiocies and irrelevant facts, and focus on what really is a problem

P.S.: Bard is probably not the best support for Mordekaiser. He really needs someone with him, so a roaming sup is a bad idea. But have you tried letting a Kogmaw alone on its lane? He really needs someone too...

KekOfTheFinestDec 21, 201567 votes

The real problem is: WHY THE FUCK DID HE NEED TO GO BOT LANE? He was fine with going solo before the rework,toxic,but not release morderkaiser toxic. He was also one of my go to top laners that i'd use against champs like vlad to beat the living crap out of them. But apparently the riot quote of 'So his duo lane makes him come back easier' is stupid. If he falls behind,he has to be weak because that's how late game mages work. And if he's ahead,he'll rekt your shit,because you let a Late game mage get ahead. He was snowbally,but not to much. Now he's nothing more than a gimmick with a dragon.

DeathBurstDec 21, 20157 votes

He totally lacked interaction with his laner. He was moderately fun to play as, and utterly annoying to play against. Also, he was very hard to balance, because of his snowbally nature: either he was OP or ridiculously weak, because as soon as he gets enough damage to consistently load his shield, he can just win any trade. At the same time, he was very vulnerable to jungler, and even if you tried to play safe and ward properly, you couldn't. It was impossible to not push lane, given his kit.

All these problems are strongly reduced in bot lane, because the presence of supports create more interactivity and allow to play around Morde weaknesses, when in top lane it was much more binary.

KekOfTheFinestDec 21, 201514 votes

Ehem so let me get this straight: To make morderkaiser less toxic,send his ass botlane. Then riot did that,made him OP,perma banned LCS and got gutted into the ground. Now he's Meh or just average,and nobody plays him. He's not fun now,and while yes his kit was toxic,it was mostly in blind pick,in ranked,just pick a high ad assassin or beg for a jungler gank. And yes his problem WAS pushing the lane because he was poking,THAT'S WHAT HIS BLOODY WEAKNESS IS!ABUSE THE LIVING SHIT OUT OF IT! If morde doesn't have dmg,or his shield is weak,then what can he do?Nothing. That is what beauty of morderkaiser was.Punishing a lane,but getting punished in return if the enemy played properly(decently more like). Also his interactivity is not fullfiling bot lane,i always asked for blitz or thresh bot so when we pulled any squishy bot,he died.Like that. That's not striving something,that's just bullshit. Also he barely works with any other support,So why the bloody hell should he go bot lane from then onwards when he's good with only 2-3 supports? Also you can't play adc morde these days,get poked out or dunked on bot lane.So it was a failure bringing morde bot.Only point in morde bot was his OP dmg and dragon bullshit thing.

A Miss FortuneDec 21, 201517 votes

I never found the old Mordekaiser as a toxic champion oddly. I found laning against him interesting but there were equally amazing ways we could both outplay each other, good Mordekaisers would be able to make great plays by playing around their shield and various item choices.

Full BrainDec 21, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LqEnmGWZ,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2015-12-21T22:56:17.343+0000)

I never found the old Mordekaiser as a toxic champion oddly. I found laning against him interesting but there were equally amazing ways we could both outplay each other, good Mordekaisers would be able to make great plays by playing around their shield and various item choices.

As someone who played him a lot; he was kind of toxic. He had big weaknesses but his wave clear was insane; probably the best in game start to finish. Which meant any decent player who wasn't counter picked would snowball like crazy with him by getting tons of last hit gold. Once that happened two on one was nothing for him he would just trash you and your jungler.

Even with that said they had zero reason to fuck him over the way they have. There were many counter picks for him and they have added even more and he was super vulnerable to ganks early to prevent being outpaced in gold too much. As has been stated by others he was really only a problem in blind picks.

He is horrible before 4 items right now. The absolute worst champion early game

If you have a Morde on your team right now you better have a rammus jungle or blitz support to grab people for him.

EfficientDynamoDec 22, 20155 votes

I used to play a lot of Morde games before the rework, and you are right that he had godly waveclear. But this meant that his wave was constantly shoved, and with no CC/mobility you were basically a buffet for any jungler smart enough to camp you. His counterplay was more strategic than tactical, but he was far less toxic than most champs.

3TWarriorDec 22, 20153 votes

yeah, but it sure was fun to have 2 opposing towers gone by 10-15 minutes in XD

oh, something else, he was one of the few who could effectively deal with riven in a 1 v 1 situation

EfficientDynamoDec 22, 20151 votes

Unless that Riven decides to all in you early on. Morde did best when people are scared of him in the early game.

SpoofghoulDec 21, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Now he's nothing more than a dragon with a gimmick.

Fixed it for ya

NegusInParisDec 22, 20151 votes

I like that they try to mix up the bot lane, so that the marksman might move into other lanes. However, since the meta probably won't change I don't think that Morde in the bot lane should be a thing. For him to be viable vs a marksman and support he either has to be overpowered or else he is outclassed by ranged DPS

3TWarriorDec 22, 20151 votes

if they'd reduce the damage some (like they did), his Q could function like Kayle's

I mean, his mace is a core part of his kit, why cant' he have some range with it

it would give him a bit of a lane bully presence but his opponents would still have to let him hit them

ahferroin7Dec 22, 20151 votes

The really confusing part is that before this rework, he actually worked bot lane just fine (assuming you had a good support, and really good coordination, both of which are still needed).

SkiasDec 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The real problem is: WHY THE FUCK DID HE NEED TO GO BOT LANE? He was fine with going solo before the rework,toxic,but not release morderkaiser toxic. He was also one of my go to top laners that i'd use against champs like vlad to beat the living crap out of them. But apparently the riot quote of 'So his duo lane makes him come back easier' is stupid. If he falls behind,he has to be weak because that's how late game mages work. And if he's ahead,he'll rekt your shit,because you let a Late game mage get ahead. He was snowbally,but not to much. Now he's nothing more than a gimmick with a dragon.

Its his kit. They never should have tried to salvage it. Its a binary relic, it needs to be phased out.

Old Man TeetoDec 22, 20155 votes

Goal of the rework was the potentially put something besides a Ranged ADC into a duo lane and make it function.

They succeeded in showing us that teams don't REQUIRE an ADC (See worlds, Mordekaiser was never paired with another ADC in a different lane) just a strong duo lane partner.

Since season 1 when the "Meta" was adopted, people have screamed for Riot to do something about the duo lane setup, they tried with a very low play rate champion who is pure damage/durability with zero utility after 5 years.

ZT XperimentorDec 22, 20156 votes

It was an attempt, but a lackluster one at that. [zombie-brand-clap]

7Artemis7Dec 22, 20155 votes

For me at least, the problem isn't that they tried to diversify bot lane, it's that they ruined the playstyle of an existing champion in order to do it. Would have been much better if they'd done so by creating a new champion instead of reworking Mordekaiser then promptly ignoring all complaints.

ahferroin7Dec 22, 20151 votes

Except that even before the rework, he did work bot lane.

So do the following non ADC champs: Pantheon Irelia Oriana Zed Tryndamere Heimerdinger Annie Teemo Kennen Ziggs Leblanc Twisted Fate Jarvan IV

All of them work just fine bot lane in place of an ADC, but they require a team that knows how to take advantage of it (and usually a particular type of support) to actually be viable, and playing them in place of an ADC sacrifices some objective control (which is the real reason for sending two people bot lane).

revliledpembrokeDec 21, 20154 votes

Well, it's not quite the Lord of Death, and is more of the Death Emperor, but other than that, yeah.

Sona PingDec 22, 20154 votes

"Emperor of Death - The Lord of Death."

GREAT! So it's not redundant, just fundamentally contradictory. That's **so ** much better Riot.

Mecha MaIphiteDec 22, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hentaî Senpaî,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LqEnmGWZ,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-12-21T14:24:34.091+0000)

...whose title (now changed, thank god) was supposed to be Mordekaiser, the Mordekaiser (Lord of Death)

Draven, the Draaaaven

Maximum MordeDec 21, 20153 votes

LMAO, a Bard player complaining about someone having 0 lane presence. TY for that m8, I needed that laugh.

When I play Morde bot lane I'm literally better off if Bard goes around dropping shrines and hunting chimes and just stays out of the lane so I can get full XP instead.

TDubHDec 21, 20158 votes

Let us refresh ourselves on something, Bot lane typically has 2 champions, an ADC and a Support, their lane presence is a combination of their skill sets and abilities. like any chemistry, combining certain atoms simply doesn't work, morde with bard has no lane presence simply because morde is a fat piece of metal that takes a long time to get to his target, while bard lacks the cc to do so, however in pretty much every other marksman lane Bard brings a significant deal of lane presence between healing slows and stuns combined with the ability to do quick poke, meanwhile morde creates no lane presence without someone with cc lock, which means he's less versatile and therefore less present in lane a higher % of the time...

TL;DR Morde lacks lane presence more often than a bard whos significantly more versatile.

Malicious MetalDec 21, 201510 votes

It's always fun to basically force your support to pick Leona and Co. even if their favorite/best champions are things like Janna, Nami and so on.

Other "marksmen" can handle themselves even with supports that lack that crips synergy while still being effective.

TDubHDec 21, 20155 votes

on a side note:

Basically force your support

So that is where the evil lies!!!

To the other points, yes.

DengedenDec 22, 20151 votes

Your short term memory must also be affected by some seriously heavy shit.

Stars ShaperDec 22, 20151 votes

Nah that's your prerogative only.

DengedenDec 22, 20151 votes

Ah, he didn't forget the Morde changes on PBE, he just blatantly ignored them. Cool.

Nunya BezwacksDec 22, 20151 votes

"...who has one of the shittiest base armor in the game (20)" not that big of a problem "...who is supposed to go up against ranged AD champions with said armor" last i checked it was people like YOU who say only ad champs can go bot lane. and next patch he can cast his w on minions meaning he doesnt have to be bot lane "...who actively handicaps his support for having to come up with ways to make up for his non-existent lane presence and range" how is one of the hardest pushing champions in the game none existant? maybe you should get good. "...whose title (now changed, thank god) was supposed to be Mordekaiser, the Mordekaiser (Lord of Death)" This has nothing to do with anything your just bitching to bitch "...who is apparently a marksman, aside from having no range and no significant late game dps to make up for it, basically being the exact opposite of a marksman." He never was, isn't currently and probably never will be classed as a marksman kid he is classed primarily as a fighter and his secondary is a mage. he isn't even counted as an adc since he builds ap and tank items

"Sincerely,

A Bard main who hates playing with Mordekaiser." you play that garbage champion, costing games for your team, despite the fact mordekaiser NEEDS people to help him and peel for him like ALL carries who aren't named "ahri" or "zed". the problem isn't morde in your case its YOU being unwilling to not play that garbage champion and pick someone who does well with morde such as you know...ANYONE ELSE.

Goodnight NunuDec 22, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nunya Bezwacks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LqEnmGWZ,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2015-12-22T15:08:20.096+0000)

"...who has one of the shittiest base armor in the game (20)" not that big of a problem "...who is supposed to go up against ranged AD champions with said armor" last i checked it was people like YOU who say only ad champs can go bot lane. and next patch he can cast his w on minions meaning he doesnt have to be bot lane "...who actively handicaps his support for having to come up with ways to make up for his non-existent lane presence and range" how is one of the hardest pushing champions in the game none existant? maybe you should get good. "...whose title (now changed, thank god) was supposed to be Mordekaiser, the Mordekaiser (Lord of Death)" This has nothing to do with anything your just bitching to bitch "...who is apparently a marksman, aside from having no range and no significant late game dps to make up for it, basically being the exact opposite of a marksman." He never was, isn't currently and probably never will be classed as a marksman kid he is classed primarily as a fighter and his secondary is a mage. he isn't even counted as an adc since he builds ap and tank items

"Sincerely,

A Bard main who hates playing with Mordekaiser." you play that garbage champion, costing games for your team, despite the fact mordekaiser NEEDS people to help him and peel for him like ALL carries who aren't named "ahri" or "zed". the problem isn't morde in your case its YOU being unwilling to not play that garbage champion and pick someone who does well with morde such as you know...ANYONE ELSE.

Actually, it kind of is. Imagine if Kassadin, who is primarily picked into mages had shitty MR or didn't have his passive. He'd have some trouble.
Riot themselves stated, that they're balancing him primarily focused on duo-lane. Even if they throw solo a bone or two, they won't acknoledge it as his primary role. Maybe you should inform yourself.
Yes it does. It shows how they don't know what they're doing.
Riot classified him as marksman primarily on the PBE. Once again you show your inability to inform yourself before spouting bs.
Saying Bard is a "garbage" shows your understanding of the game (or lack thereof) and really speaks for itself.

Have a nice day.