its so clear what needs to be done but riot refuses to do it
Add a delay on her r and increase the range on q and turn it into a skillshot
no other changes needed
But riot refuses to nerf her because "muh skins XDDDD big cash money"
Sightless662 votesThose two changes would destroy her. She'd need significant buffs if you wanted to put both of those on her.
Gigahappytown1 votesThose two changes would destroy her. She'd need significant buffs if you wanted to put both of those on her.
oh no my skilless team nuke stun takes skill to use now however will i survive
R higher scaling if used to activate passive it will stun 0.5 seconds longer
Q now restores the cost used plus 15/20/25/30/35 mana upon killing a unit doubled on champions or large minions/monsters
Sightless661 votesoh no my skilless team nuke stun takes skill to use now however will i survive
Delays are pretty significant things to add to key skills. Turning targeted skills into skillshots is also really heavy. There is good reason to think that these changes by themselves would make her a terrible champion Veigar is a pretty good case study for how hard both of those combined can fuck a champion.
For your proposals: The R one is good, although insufficient by itself to make her good unless the scaling was massively increased. The Q change barely matters. Mana costs are not something Annie really has a problem with, so turning her laning mana costs from insignificant to nonexistent isn't going to improve her in any meaningful way.
If we were going to go with such major changes instead of just number nerfs, we'd a need a full redesign. She only works as an ult initiator, and as a bully in lane. Her W and E (particularly her E) aren't impactful enough to allow for other roles. This is only acceptable because she has very high reliability for her primary role. If she doesn't have that, then she has almost nothing. She'd need new skills.
Ethereal Mist1 votesYou mean the same veigar that went on the get almost perma banned in worlds? Veigar was never bad after the nerf, people just thought he was bad because every veigar main had 0 skill and couldn't do shit once their champ actually took a little skill to play. Annie completely needs a nerf, it's ridiculous that people like leblanc and annie can 100 to 0 someone with little to no skill requires, and annie is even worse. Atleast leblanc has to click her abilities faster. Annie can literally just ult and then sit there doing nothing for 1.7 seconds before you finish the rest of your combo. Her stun needs to be less reliable. MANY pros have said that it should not be up permanently once you get the fourth. Even just making her stun take like .5 seconds to be able to work after you get the fourth stack would be fine. They seemed to have nerfed every single champion with reliable cc leading to burst and death, but annie has somehow survived with the ability to do this bullshit.
Sightless661 votesDude, are you seriously responding to something from 7 months ago? Seriously man? Just start a new fucking thread if you want to bitch about Annie. How did you even find this? What even compelled you to start this up again?
Veigar was never bad after the nerf
Yes he was. I'm not giving you any room here. You are just wrong. He sucked, and he got major buffs. He hadn't even gotten his 5.6 buffs when this thread was made. His Q range was 100 lower, his E didn't stop enemies who jumped through it, and he had significantly less mana regen from his passive. And the patch before that, he got a missile speed increase to his Q and a decrease to the delay of his E. He's being played in World's because he got buffed a ton. Seriously dude, just because he's good now doesn't mean he was good when the rework release.
Her stun needs to be less reliable.
Then she needs to be reworked so that she'll have something else. Reliability is her only unique trait, and it's the only reason she's picked over other options. Take it away, and she'll see no picks. If we want to rework Annie, that's fine. Even nerfing her numbers is fine. However, just cutting reliability will effectively remove her from any serious play. She's that reliant on it.
annie has somehow survived with the ability to do this bullshit.
There's no somehow to this. There's a very simple answer. It's all she has, and she'd have to be reworked to give her something else if it was taken away. That's considered acceptable because unlike many of the other reliable CC/burst champions of the past, she has no mobility to enable her reliable burst and CC, and her range isn't particularly good. Riot doesn't want to make her worthless, so they don't this away from her.
MANY pros have said that it should not be up permanently once you get the fourth.
First, I don't believe you. I think that's a crock of shit, and you're just making it up to try and make your argument sound more legit. I haven't seen a pro player bitching about Annie for a very long time, and I never saw any of them subscribe to that stupid "stacks should fall off" idea. Second, even if it was true, so fucking what? Pro players aren't pro players because they know shit about design. They're there because they're good at playing the game. You don't have to know shit about designing a game to be really good at playing it.
iMaB3AST1 votesI agree she can safely farm with q, can get stacks for her passive, can stun and poke u and win every trade. But a delay on her r will kill her and q as a skill shot.... pls no.
FourVsFive1 votesPeople would just use cass, she almost same as annie, nuker with a stun.
IcyPepper1 votesTo be fair, she'd need some tweaks to the rest of her kit.
Maybe W is a channeled DoT AoE that drains mana at a fast rate? Maybe her E boost her MS a little as well as her defenses?
aeVoWXYKH01 votesHow the fuck can these monkeys still consider that Annie would need buffs to her R if it got a delay. What in the world are they thinking? She just got in a recent patch a nerf to her ult ratio and she still deals 1200 dmg with it upon casting it. And then Tibbers does another 1800 dmg to you just by running to you with his movement speed buff. The delay is necessary because she has no counterplay, are you supposed to flash every single ult that she has? Flash won't always be up when her ult is, and it is super difficult to predict that she would use it at a certain time, not to mention risking to flash too soon for nothing. The delay is a good idea. The Q skillshot thing should also be implemented, she can poke like crazy, get mana back and half of her cooldown so she always has that shit to trade back, not to mention that she does not even need to worry about missing or minions blocking it while the enemy probably has to worry about both of those. Currently there is no counterplay to her kit, her Q is targeted, her E and R are instant aoe. And if you would keep her Q targeted then she could still land her ult on you with her retarded targeted stun. Her only guaranteed to hit ability in her kit should be her E so if she wants some fancy AOE stun she should risk something and go in their faces. And for the love of God, make her squishier, she is super tanky for a burst mage and I think that won't be enough either, even if she becomes squishy, you cannot hit her while fucking dead or cc'ed. Anyway, Annie needs to be gutted, I haven't seen a single player win against her on mid except for the guys that play other noob champs that burst her up (LeBlanc)