Teachs players the importance of team composition before they hit ranked.
For example if player 1 picks miss fortune and player 2 picks malphite player 3 who is now picking will be recommended sejuani orianna amumu
this is disabled once players reach level 30.
Maximum Morde2 votesNah. I hate it when games do this. Maybe if it was an option in the settings menu it would be fine cause then I can just turn tutorial off or whatever. But I prefer to make mistakes on my own. Learn better that way.
Salidfingers2 votesJust pick the champion you are good at.
Baunjo1 votesthis will encourage people to learn more champions as well as promote good team building. And besides, it's not like they are playing ranked anyway... so playing a new champion will not hurt them
Aatrox Herself1 votesOr j4 for player 3.
Shac Norris1 votesno.
it would be enforcing the meta, and riot is against that, so am i, as an ap shaco main.
idea thrashed
Penns1 votes
Kat Head2 votesno.
it would be enforcing the meta, and riot is against that
What game are you playing ?
Riot dictates the meta. Though they may say other wise, the proof is in the pudding.
Shac Norris2 votesI agree that they are, but none of them will admit it, and even the summoner code is against the idea of a fixed meta, so yeah.
BiBoX22 votesYeah, Riot will shift the meta on a 3-6 month basis, by nerfing assasins/tanks/mages/ADC or essentially their core items...
Jungle Lux God1 votesRiot never creates the meta. They just give players the tools to create the meta.
"Meta" is an acronym for "most efficient tactics available". Players decide that what the best options in any given game, and play based on those options, outside of dedicated mains of a character who play a certain character regardless of whether that character is meta or not.
The proof to this is that the term "meta" has been around for many years now long before Riot was formed and League of Legends was even conceived.
Kat Head1 votesRiot never creates the meta. They just give players the tools to create the meta.
"Meta" is an acronym for "most efficient tactics available". Players decide that what the best options in any given game, and play based on those options, outside of dedicated mains of a character who play a certain character regardless of whether that character is meta or not.
The proof to this is that the term "meta" has been around for many years now long before Riot was formed and League of Legends was even conceived.
If I take something good and make changes to it to make it not good. I have effectively decided and set in affect a shift in the Meta. This is true for individual champions and for roles in general. Riot decides what is good and what is bad. The players did not come up with the tank meta, Riot introduced the tank meta. The tank meta did not end on its own, Riot decided to end it. The players did not produce the juggernaut era, Riot did that.
Turrets getting killed before 7 mins into the game ? Better put in a buff that makes them basically immune to damage.
The weakest role in the game currently is the Assassin role. What is Riot doing for it ? Riot is spending the off season buffing the most powerful role in the game, the ADC. The role the entire game revolves around, apparently needs buffed.
Why ? Because they can. Because that is the way they want there game to be played.
People will always gravitate towards what is best, Riot determines what is best (META).
Jungle Lux God1 votesRiot created the tools for players to create a meta, but it was up to players to create that meta. This has been true for well over a decade, just with different developers on different games.
Riot did not create the tank meta. They can't possibly create the tank meta because the players create the meta. Riot just introduced an item that allowed for tanks to be good in the jungle, and the players decided that the item was good enough and there were enough good tanks to use the item that the players that the meta should revolve around jungle tanks.
They didn't end the tank meta either. They just saw that tanks were dominating the meta created by the players, and decided to nerf the tanks and Cinderhulk so that non-tank options could be good too. One meta was dominant, and Riot decided to nerf the tools that the meta had so that players had other options to play, and that the meta doesn't become stagnant for extended periods of time.
Also, it is not possible for Riot to determine what is best. If they did, they would determine that no one should be the best, and that no one should be the worst, and that there should be perfect balance. Which isn't physically possible, and hasn't been physically possible for over 2 decades.
All Riot does is try and create a game where every champion is viable, and like every other developer of competitive games has done for over 2 decades, they mess up the balance because no developer can possibly determine whether someone is too strong or too weak in a single game.
Kat Head1 votesRiot created the
We are gonna have to agree to disagree, because I really can not take any of what you just said serious. Even though you obviously put a lot of time into writing it, your perspective on reality is far different from mine.
Jungle Lux God1 votesI'm just stating what the harsh truth for what competitive game design has been for decades.
No developer decides to create characters that are good or bad. They simply try to create characters that are balanced for the game as best as they can. But at the same time, it is impossible for any developer to determine whether a character is balanced or not before the game gets released.
If it was possible, Riot wouldn't have released the four juggernaut reworks in the state they were released in, they wouldn't have released Ryze in the state he was reworked in, they wouldn't have released Cinderhulk in the state it was in, they wouldn't have released Bard in the state he was released in. It's simply not possible for any developer to determine how good or bad an aspect of the game is until it gets officially released, especially when what makes the character so strong isn't what people test before it's released, like Ryze's W max strategy or Skarner's E max strategy after their respective reworks.
Chuck Charles1 votesno to this so much. like are you serious? In ranked, its all about your own personal skill level. sure at the highest elos team comp does matter. as does synergy. but a player should always be playing a champion they are familiar with rather than one that fits the comp well if they dont know how to play it.
and if a player already knows how to play X champion, then they would already know why it would be good for their teams comp and pick it any way. they wouldnt need the suggestion.
this would only encourage players to play champions they are not familiar with in ranked and thus get stomped. I'm cool off that. my teammates feed enough thank you.
Gigahappytown1 votes[{quoted}](name=Chuck Charles,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEeQE1Ia,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-10-04T23:51:47.929+0000)
no to this so much. like are you serious? In ranked, its all about your own personal skill level. sure at the highest elos team comp does matter. as does synergy. but a player should always be playing a champion they are familiar with rather than one that fits the comp well if they dont know how to play it.
and if a player already knows how to play X champion, then they would already know why it would be good for their teams comp and pick it any way. they wouldnt need the suggestion.
this would only encourage players to play champions they are not familiar with in ranked and thus get stomped. I'm cool off that. my teammates feed enough thank you.
its not enabled in ranked fixed that in original post also it doesn't matter how good you are if your comp is completely countered by the enemy teams comp ie a team of nidalee varus lux janna shen will get dumpstered by a hard engage team like malphite sejuani ekko leona graves
and likewise picking riven yi or yasuo when your team is protect the kog'maw is a fucking terrible idea
also compositions have absolutely nothing to do with the meta. meta means whats viable team comp is having a team built to excel at one task or supporting a carry champ like yasuo kog'maw or darius
DokiDokiTodoroki1 votesYou actually can outplay a composition based on personal skill. It doesn't matter if they have a hard engage comp if everyone on their team is 0-3 and that Graves doesn't get to leave base without getting Varus arrow/Nidalee spear through the face and taking out 3/4 of their health. Likewise, if the engage team never engages except on the Shen, they're wasting all their cc and are left to just be picked off by the poke comp. Again, it's more important for a player to be able to play a champion for it to be good in a comp, not just if the champion fits. Also champions can do multiple things. All these suggestions would do is force champions into a specific role for everyone new who is joining the game.
YossarianSensei1 votesNo
Almost anything can work together, all that matters is your team executes strategy properly
Remlap12232 votesYes, because Leona is a great champ in a poke composition.
In before "ur bronze."
DokiDokiTodoroki1 votesShe actually could be if all she does is peel because now you have a champion with constant lockdown if someone on the enemy team does manage to engage on you. Again, how your team executes strategy.
Remlap12231 votesYou're just proving my point. Leona has to go out of her way to be good in a poke comp, while all Sona does is simply have to be there.
And there's no way you can defend Lee Sin being good with Miss Fortune, or Kalista being good with Soraka.
DokiDokiTodoroki1 votesLiterally any X champion has to go out of their way to be good even in comps that synergize with them. Even engage comps have squishy adcs/carries that need to be peeled for if they happen to be targeted. A Leona that chooses to burn all of her engage onto a tank only is useless as fuck. Also Sona is technically not as great as a Lulu or a Janna in a poke comp, because she has fairly low ranged poke compared to most champions and her auras don't peel as well as the others.
It's easy. Lee Sin's kick sets up a great multi-man kockup for MF to fire her ult into. Soraka makes any laner god tier in lane, and a Kalista that never loses health when you DO manage to touch her is near broken. But sure, keep forcing champions into playstyles based on a low level of play and no basic decision making.
Remlap12231 votesAnd there's the bronze comment. I was waiting on bated breath.
And once again, you completely missed the point. Why do I have to put in extra effort to play around a Gragas or Lee Sin possibly knocking champs out of Miss Fortune's ultimate when I can just pick Sona or Leona to lock down an entire team without having to worry about whiffing ultimates?
It's needlessly difficult. Just because I main Miss Fortune doesn't mean I pick her into Corki. That's just stupid and makes my job more difficult. Regardless of how good you communicate with your team, giving yourselves less opportunities to fuck up is better than attempting to play around it.
DokiDokiTodoroki1 votesI never mentioned your rank, in fact you were just fishing for it, weren't you? You must be so proud.
No one said you couldn't pick certain champions. In fact, you were the one trying to limit picks by saying that "there's no way you can defend ___." I did. Sure, it's not as point as click as Annie or Warwick, but that wasn't even up for debate. I defended picking champs that aren't glaring obvious on basis of playing them correctly, and you didn't respond to that. Maybe it's more difficult for you to play around other teammates, but that doesn't mean that the option doesn't exist. Go ahead and pick according to comps if you'd like. That's your choice. But the reason why this thread was made was to suggest recommending champs based on "team composition," which fundamentally doesn't work since many champions fit a variety of play styles, and also because it completely disregards player skill level/preferences.
A. You're basically spoon feeding the new players the current "meta," and whether or not people agree that Riot does this already, it's on paper if you set up recommendations. B. You prevent development in the meta because everyone is only picking things that make sense, again on a basic level. C. Most importantly it prevents players from learning themselves. The levels pre 30 are about learning how the game works, and it's not going to help players if we only teach them what we want them to know and let them assume that they now know what they're doing based off a few loose guidelines. I suspect that's more needlessly difficult than trial and error.
Remlap12231 votesI never mentioned your rank, in fact you were just fishing for it, weren't you? You must be so proud.
"But sure, keep forcing champions into playstyles based on a low level of play and no basic decision making."
That was a jab at my rank. You dipshits can't control yourselves. It doesn't matter if you're goddamn Silver V, you always gotta bash the bronzie.
Maybe it's more difficult for you to play around other teammates, but that doesn't mean that the option doesn't exist.
Again, you are totally missing my point. I'm not saying its not possible, I'm saying it's needlessly difficult.
A. You're basically spoon feeding the new players the current "meta," and whether or not people agree that Riot does this already, it's on paper if you set up recommendations. B. You prevent development in the meta because everyone is only picking things that make sense, again on a basic level.
I seriously don't understand how you can miss my point this much unless English is your second language or something.
SAYING MISS FORTUNE WORKS WELL WITH AMUMU AND ORIANNA IS NOT ENFORCING THE META. IT IS SIMPLY SAYING THAT THEY HAVE GOOD SYNERGY. EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THAT IS ENFORCING THE META?
C. Most importantly it prevents players from learning themselves. The levels pre 30 are about learning how the game works, and it's not going to help players if we only teach them what we want them to know and let them assume that they now know what they're doing based off a few loose guidelines.
Give new players a little bit of credit. I think by the time they level up enough to get summoner flash, they understand that building Talon AP doesn't work and that some champs don't work well with others. Saying that they shouldn't have direct access to that information because it takes away from firsthand experience is completely ridiculous. You don't need to waste a match just to theorycraft.
I suspect that's more needlessly difficult than trial and error.
Which is why Braum and Gnar didn't have good teampicks and their counterpicks on their announcement page. OH WAIT.
DokiDokiTodoroki1 votesLol of course I'm Silver V, and I'll be the first to tell you that that's the same as bronze. Again, the way you described play was low level and involved no real life decision making. I didn't even check your rank when I made that comment. I had to look it up to make sure you weren't calling ME the bronze.
When you have to resort to all caps to make your point, maybe you should sit back and take a break for a moment. Thanks for skipping most of what I wrote to pull quotes out of context. I explained that I was also talking about this in response to OP's post, but let's focus on you since you seem to want that so badly.
You said it was bad. You said there was no way that I could defend Lee Sin with MF being good, or Soraka with Kalista, and I didn't just explain how they could work, but I also said that it was very possible to make it happen.
Above it was stated that META stands for "Most Efficient Tactics Available," and whether or not that's exactly true, most people agree on it as the general definition. The whole idea of compositions is linked to the meta. The basic "synergy" you mention also has to do with what is meta, because who even said that Amumu had to be a tank engage or that you couldn't have full AD Orianna? Whether or not something seems inconvenient to YOU doesn't mean that it's automatically off meta.
You realize in Riot's tutorial system it tells you to build thornmail on Ashe, right? The reason people don't play AP talon is because of recommended items. And before you say that it also should work for champions, every champion has defined ratios. They might ONLY scale with AP or ONLY scale with AD or function best as a tank because of their primary engage. It also clearly lists what the items are, what they do, and what category they fall under. Champions don't have defined play styles. That's in the hands of the player, and should be left that way without forcing roles down their throats.
Braum and Gnar are very popular picks right now. There are champions that generally do well against them, and champions that make follow up as easy as clicking a button. Again, those guidelines are given to players who at least have basic game knowledge and an idea of how a champion works. It's not like a level 10 player trying out Orianna for the first time because some tooltip said "good with Amumu" and finding out that they're maxing e and dying to the enemy Zed every time they walk into lane.
Remlap12231 votesI actually like this idea.
Razorofpow1 votesSo since you are usually placed with players of your own level, no one gets to choose their champion.... Or would it work in a manner of 1st pick can choose anyone, 2nd picks choices are less, and so on?
Is losing that bad for you thay you want players forced to play certain champions to make you happy?
Kitten of Evil1 votesIs losing that bad for you thay you want players forced to play certain champions to make you happy?
We had a temporary mode for that once -- Nemesis draft. You never saw so many Urgots, Poppys and Tarics.
Mordepool1 votesForcing that system would warp mmr values across the board.