@Meddler Is Vladimir going to be addressed after the Rylai's changes?

Toastersaot·Dec 10, 2016·8 votes·4,544 views

You said that Viktor and Malzahar were going to be ok with the changes, but I don't think Vladimir can take it anymore. Last patch he was already sitting at a rather low win rate due to all the nerfs for competitive LoL.

Is there anything you guys can do to Make Vladimir Great Again without making him too oppressive, or too useless against Grievous Wounds?

I was thinking about giving Vladimir the incentive to Max E first, making him riskier but with Higher Reward.

20 Comments

RiotMeddlerDec 10, 20166 votes

Not sure yet on Vlad, from what we've seen so far he's one of the most debatable cases.

Also worth noting we're pretty early in the patch cycle and things are still bouncing around a bit. Possible champs we thought weren't hit hard will turn out to have been or vice versa still.

ACENOXDec 10, 20165 votes

but don't stats show that vlad mains have 60% win rate with him

:^)

NiyumiDec 10, 20161 votes

I know you don't like anything I say, but I think Vlad is fine right now. A little weak early game, but he's unstoppable if he's fed and a somewhat competent player is using him (not to say you can't beat him).

The Rylai's nerf, while unfortunate, doesn't affect his stats too badly, and the slow is still useful.

Nathaniell1Dec 11, 20162 votes

Yeah.. he is unstopable.. sure.. if you are braindead and let him run into 400 range of you when he is slowed charging his E and blast it to you... He has no fucking way to get to anyone, if you die to vladimir and he ditn have to flash or ghost to you, you suck. Low MS + cast time on everything + nerfed slow = he cant catch you, ever, and cant 100-0, because he doesnt have enought dmg for it and ult is 5 sec delayed. Not to mention he is stupidly weak early. Ryllai nerf doesnt affect him badly? da fuck, do you even play him ever? He absolutely needed that slow to evem have chance to kill someone who didnt have cc.. now... no way. How the fuck can you say that champon with 44% winrate and 49% on experienced vlad players is ok is beyond my understading.

Thing is, there are champions rioters love - like lee sin, who are confortibly sitting on 52%+ win rate for months and arent changed, and then there are champions like vlad who are sitting on 45%- and noone gives a fuck.

NiyumiDec 11, 20161 votes

He has counterplay, and you can't just win for free? Poor you. Thing is, if you play him properly, you can carry games with him, as much as you don't want to admit it.

Nathaniell1Dec 11, 20162 votes

To be able to carry, you need to actualy be able to get to someone... you can.. with.. amumu, hecarim, renekton and so and and so on... you cant with vladimir, because he dosnt have movespeed for it, no way to initiate properly and his storngest spell even slowes him down. With good team, you absolutely can win with vlad, but you cant carry the game almost alone like you can with a lot o other champions.

NiyumiDec 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

... but you cant carry the game almost alone like you can with a lot o other champions.

Then why can I? Go look at my Vlad history. Bad game here or there, but I carry a lot of games with him.

MultiGFayzerJan 31, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I know you don't like anything I say, but I think Vlad is fine right now. A little weak early game, but he's unstoppable if he's fed and a somewhat competent player is using him (not to say you can't beat him).

The Rylai's nerf, while unfortunate, doesn't affect his stats too badly, and the slow is still useful.

Lol i think Vlad is completely useless in team fights other than his ult dmg amplifier.

Over InnsmouthDec 11, 20165 votes

Could you please elaborate on what you mean by debatable?

Also, if I may ask, is the balance team currently happy with Vladimir's post-MYMU kit (design-wise) or is he leaning towards Mordekaiser's situation where a full VGU might be necessary?

Yours respectfully, A concerned Vlad main.

AhristocatsDec 11, 20162 votes

Vladimir is definitly healthy with all those changes

maybe it's a problem that he wins against non-lane bully champs but you definitly has a chance to beat him now with how his kit and stats works

as pre-rework talon for example i killed him at lvl 4 due to his trash base hp and ms.

WoonStruckDec 11, 20161 votes

I can deal with the changes. I honestly think its a better direction for him.

But the base HP and MS nerfs paired with the Rylai's nerfs now is starting to get to his usability both in lane and out of lane.

Champions that can kill him pre-7 now could still kill him pre-7 before either set of nerfs.

RiotMeddlerDec 11, 20165 votes

Current assessment of Vlad's state's unclear - we've got a range of opinions on how much the Rylai's change has affected him and what a balanced state looks like for him. Some of that's the strong disparity between his performance in top tier play versus average games.

In terms of the health of his kit my take at least is that we made some improvements but that there are still a fair few unsolved issues. Gut reaction is smaller changes over time to improve that rather than a full VGU.

WoonStruckDec 11, 20163 votes

His 'top-tier play' has fallen off since tank builds' damage was significantly nerfed. He almost immediately stopped being picked in competitive.

After his base HP and MS were nerfed, the Rylai's nerf is really starting to affect his usability. There's no reason Syndra, or even Sol for that matter, should be able to outrun him if she misses all of her skillshots. I've had it happen several times. Its practically impossible to go mid with him if you aren't going full-tank so you can just ignore their damage and sustain through it, but he's essentially a non-factor if you do so. That build has a 44% winrate compared to AP for a reason.

This is also the reason he's mostly played top now. He can't function vs anything ranged because they all have higher MS, higher CC, higher damage, higher range, and higher base stats than him.

Improving his options vs ranged would be a good place to start if you want to hit his ranged vs melee interactions more. How do you do that? Base MS is a good start because he'll have a significantly higher buff relative to other ranged, but still significantly less MS than most melee.

Over InnsmouthDec 11, 20164 votes

Oh, awesome, and thanks so much for replying!

Would "smaller changes" consist of something akin to what Shyvana recently got?

Also, would you mind sharing some of the "unsolved issues" in his kit? I'd like to know what I can look forward to possibly being changed and what won't.

SkyroarDec 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Current assessment of Vlad's state's unclear - we've got a range of opinions on how much the Rylai's change has affected him and what a balanced state looks like for him. Some of that's the strong disparity between his performance in top tier play versus average games.

In terms of the health of his kit my take at least is that we made some improvements but that there are still a fair few unsolved issues. Gut reaction is smaller changes over time to improve that rather than a full VGU.

Can I ask what is Riot's opinion on some other problematic MYMU mages as well, like Malzahar? He has just gotten a W rework, and I'm wondering if he'll also be the target of future "smaller changes over time" as well.

WoonStruckDec 11, 20163 votes

A tiny bump to his base hp and ms would be nice.

Any champ with a gapcloser being able to all-in any time before lvl 7 is really, really annoying. I know you don't like Vlad, but he should at least be able to lane. People being unable to deal with arguably the easiest ranged vs melee match-up in the game is no excuse for keeping him weak.

Every game is just avoiding the inevitable flash->ignite cheese engage against anyone under plat for a free lane. Plat and above its practically impossible to lane against anyone with even the slightest pressure+ignite.

Considering he just lost 100 HP from Rylai's, as well as a significant portion of the slow, giving him MS and HP to essentially revert nerfs in the past should be no issue, especially since he effectively had those before Rylai's was ever stupidly buffed in the first place. He's approaching a sub-44% winrate for fuck's sake.

This double-dip on HP and relative MS nerfs feels horrible. Even Darius can just run you down without any MS items when you start boots+pots.

warpenguin555Dec 11, 20161 votes

will malz get any small buffs? ik you said he was a bit too strong still but you still also said he was hit hard by rylias nerf

MordepoolDec 10, 20161 votes

Check the azir thread he commented on

TaoShamashDec 11, 20161 votes

The "rework" was a fiasco. Riot should think about addressing Vlad again. And when that happend make him a true hemomancer, no a vampire wannabe, so we can have later a true Vampire champion in LoL.

My 2cent

sørakãJan 4, 20171 votes

the biggest issue i can see is that it simply just takes to long to do damage now. let me list out my reasons i think this is the case. first off his Q does hardly no damage unless empowered so 1 in every 3 Q's does damage, his W just never did damage in general, his E now has a charge time and can even be blocked by minions and his ult always took a long time to go off and maybe its just me but i feel like it takes even longer now because i tend to die before it actually goes off now for some reason. on top of all this its super easy to play against vlad because getting hit by a regular Q does nothing the only one you have to avoid is the empowered one and thats pretty easy because you can just watch the bar under his health so just back up for like 2 to 3 seconds and wait for it to go away and then go back in, you can see him charging his E and really you can just avoid that by standing behind minions anyway. vlad has been getting steadily nerfed as time goes on. first you changed the Q to the empowered systems which doesnt work very well in my opinion mainly being because when you get the empowered Q it goes away after a few seconds. honestly the old Q was better because instead of doing a lot of damage 1 out of ever 3 Q's it just did ok damage every Q and thats what i liked, the biggest issue for the E is that it cant go through minions in my opinion all you have to do is make it so it can go through minions and that would be enough. you could even just change it back to the way that it used to be before the rework because without spell vamp in the game anymore it doesn't matter the reason he was so good before was because he could get more health back then he lost from the E when spell vamp was still in the game if enough minions or enemy champs were hit by it. so in general i see 4 nerfes 1=Q 2=E 3=no more spell vamp and 4=new rylais nerf so please tell me what is good about vlad anymore because i honestly cant tell lol. i dont like to complain but ever change that has been made is a nerf any way you look at it. i used to be able to 1v3 at least! but now i cant even 1v1 in my own lane because of the lack of consistent damage i can do to the other laner. i have to wait for a empowered Q have my E already charging have already dropped my ult and maybe i might get a kill assuming they arent a tank or have built 1 magic resist item. in my opinion just change him back to how he used to be before the rework because without spell vamp i feel he would have been on par with all the other champs, the spell vamp was the only reason he was so good in the first place, but you went as far as to get rid of that rework him and nerf rylais, and dont even get me started on his movement speed or his trash passive lol all in all i just want you to make him viable again because i really used to like this champ but now its just not even possible to play him.

p.s. sorry for my shit grammar lol