Okay, now I went Thornmail against a team with 4 AA-heavy Champions, and it SUCKED

darkdill·Jan 22, 2017·3 votes·964 views

Yes we were behind, but it was and a Thornmail rush for me as a jungle tank was literally useless.

"Get Thorns later!"

That's when it gets countered by lifesteal and magic resistance, so no, you can't get it late.

"You were stomped!"

That's not the point. The point is that even in its most optimal case, Thornmail has become absolute garbage.

Riot, I am ORDERING you to talk to us about it. Is it being reworked or removed? Silence will be punished.

14 Comments

EedatJan 22, 20173 votes

Thornmail isnt designed so that anyone who attacks you dies. It does a lot of work against teams like this but its not supposed to make them completely useless. How stupid would that be

darkdillJan 22, 20172 votes

That's not what I was looking for. But the enemy was taking NO damage from it, even when they hadn't built lifesteal or MR.

Tyrone LannisterJan 22, 20173 votes

If it gets buffed, you could have the same problem back in season 5.

darkdillJan 22, 20171 votes

Unlikely. There's a lot of ways to make Thornmail worthless now, even without lifesteal or MR. Phantom Dancer reduces the damage of Thornmail by 12%, and Death's Dance lets you delay some of the Thorns damage.

AptestJan 22, 20171 votes

umm... squishie, squishie, squishie, squishie, support (squishie).... should have probably gone for a burst damage build if you have one on the champion.

rush a triforce or something and go for the +damage jungle item.

Critmaster GarenJan 22, 20171 votes

{quoted}

umm... squishie, squishie, squishie, squishie, support (squishie).... should have probably gone for a burst damage build if you have one on the champion.

rush a triforce or something and go for the +damage jungle item.

building burst on a tank?

op should probably edit his post, because trying to order rioters around is silly.

but thornmail is an item that was made for situations like this. dumb enemy teamcomps with nothing but carries, just as much as item 3153 is an item with the only purpose of keeping massive health stacking teams in check.

the issue with thornmail is that it simply doesnt do its job unless youre playing one or two specific champions. maybe 3 with Taric

the item is balanced around extreme edge cases like full armor Rammus Malphite which makes it almost worthless on any other tank who manages to get maybe 50% of the armor these guys can stack up.

it needs a rework to be better on everyone else without being stronger than it is on malphite and rammus right now.

Professor WardJan 22, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PdH1q4Mx,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-01-22T05:06:18.611+0000)

building burst on a tank?

op should probably edit his post, because trying to order rioters around is silly.

but thornmail is an item that was made for situations like this. dumb enemy teamcomps with nothing but carries, just as much as is an item with the only purpose of keeping massive health stacking teams in check.

the issue with thornmail is that it simply doesnt do its job unless youre playing one or two specific champions. maybe 3 with

the item is balanced around extreme edge cases like full armor which makes it almost worthless on any other tank who manages to get maybe 50% of the armor these guys can stack up.

it needs a rework to be better on everyone else without being stronger than it is on malphite and rammus right now.

it also has decent value on late game Thresh due to his soul stacks

Critmaster GarenJan 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

it also has decent value on late game due to his soul stacks

slightly. but just like taric, as a support tank thresh usually doesnt get to work with a budget that allows him buy a lot of tank items overall.

Professor WardJan 22, 20171 votes

item 3143 item 3047 item 3075 wouldve been rough for them if you were able to avoid morg

item 3742 item 3068 item 3065 endgame wouldve been super tank

the problem with rushing thornmail is that you dont have any hp to back it up i see item 3075 item 3110 builds all the time and people wonder why it doesnt work.

darkdillJan 22, 20171 votes

item 1413 isn't HP?

Professor WardJan 22, 20171 votes

{quoted}

isn't HP?

not enough id still recommend another hp armor item first especially with the passive on cinderhulk, and did you run tabi boots? They are key to a thornmail build.

darkdillJan 22, 20171 votes

Yes, I got Tabi. Still didn't work.

The point is that Thornmail is a toxic item. It needs to either be removed or reworked because it has the same problems that Will of the Ancients did.

LovelleJan 22, 20171 votes

Yasuo, Aatrox, and Yi aren't as hard-countered by Thornmail as most AD auto-attackers, especially since all 3 of them can afford to completely counter-build against it without sacrificing damage. I'm sure it worked against Ashe though, as she has no answer for dealing with Thornmail until she hits at least 3-4 items.