Heimerdinger's entire kit revolves around the very toxic gameplay others have been reworked for.

Frontline Fury··2 votes·862 views

Why is he considered healthy? Heimerdinger is a burst mage / control mage / siege mage that just so happens to fulfill the entire list of "unhealthy gameplay" criteria that other champions have been gutted / reworked for in the past. He is not fun to play against, and he is not fun to play as.

1: Non-interactive laning phase.

Heimerdinger puts down his AUTOPILOT turrets, up to three of them, that automatically invalidates 90% of the champions in the game. Not only do these turrets provide FREE waveclear, they have NO downtime whatsoever and easily outranges even the majority of the marksmen in the game.

2: Counterplay? What counterplay?

There is no clear counterplay for Heimerdinger.

  • Take down his turrets? He will freely spam his spells on you and basic attack you until you die.
  • Attack him while his cooldowns are up? Hah, not only are these cooldowns inherently extremely low, his turrets will also deal more damage than the entire rest of his team combined. Try again.
  • Poke his turrets down from a safe distance? Chances are you will have to use multiple spells or the same spell multiple times to kill even one of his turrets. By the time you manage to whittle it down, he has another one ready. You will also have to give up using your spells on minions to do this.
  • Farm safely under tower? He will happily poke you down even behind your tower. His spells not only outrange the tower, but also have a travel time that allows him to step under it, cast his spell and then back off before the tower has time to react. His basic attacks suffer the same issue - they travel so slowly he can repeatedly basic attack you under your tower without the tower retaliating.
  • Wait for your jungler to gank? Even if your jungler ganks at the very beginning of the game, BEFORE you are put behind, they will encounter the exact same issues you do. Numbers do not help much here - the autopilot turrets that fire at an extremely fast rate can easily even the odds.

Now this MIGHT be tolerable if he fell off later in the game, similar to champions like Pantheon.

But Heimerdinger ONLY GETS STRONGER the longer the match lasts.

Lategame hypercarry that can easily delete tanks with half a combo, that can ALSO split push, tank towers and go so far as take down towers WITHOUT MINIONS.

The champion has no distinct weaknesses. It's literally just "put him behind". On even ground there are extremely few champions that can deal with him, and none that can go even in the early game.

A champion's counterplay should NEVER be "the mistakes of the player".

Now why isn't this champion popular, when he easily tops the damage, cs and siege damage charts across the boards even when behind?

Its simple: he's not fun. There's no real skill expression because half his kit is on auto-pilot. The champion practically plays itself - which means when you succeed with him, it does not feel like that much of a success because you know half the work was done by the AI in the kit itself. Add the fact that you don't really interact with other players - all you do is push a lane and keep them away from your turrets - and you might as well have been spectating a coop vs ai game. There's very little actual fighting or dueling going on. Due to low cooldowns there's also extremely little decisionmaking - using your ult is almost NEVER the wrong decision, because it'll be up again in less than a minute. You feel like you dont get to show what you're good for because there are simply no champions capable of fighting you - and it's not because you are a strong player.

8 Comments

Tenth Leper2 votes

[sg-miss-fortune] [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Drive By Max1 votes

Here's a weakness, he has to be in an area he prepared. Catch him anywhere outside of his turrets and you're golden. I play gnar into him quite often and do quite well.

Frontline Fury1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Drive By Max,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PdE7njyw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-26T00:32:22.728+0000)

Here's a weakness, he has to be in an area he prepared. Catch him anywhere outside of his turrets and you're golden. I play gnar into him quite often and do quite well.

Gnar is a resourceless ranged champion with extremely high health regen. He is one of the 10% that can actually stay in lane against heimerdinger.

With heimerdinger's new passive, catching him outside his "zone" no longer matters. All he needs to do is place a turret and enjoy the massive movement speed boost that will let him outrun any champion without a dash, or their respective dash on cooldown.

DreamerP1 votes

So you came to these conclusions after losing to a Heimerdinger as Kled? I didn't even think a Kled could lose to a Heimerdinger...

  1. Heimerdinger drops off late game, that's always been his problem and all his abilities are skillshots, yes even his turrets are skillshots the beams at least
  2. He's not played because other champs have easier kits that are just better rewarding and have less skillshots IE Annie, Heimer has E with literally the smallest possible AoE to stun to even possibly land a nuke w/ R Rockets and that's assuming you can land all of them. If you got hit with all the rockets then you got read like a book in terms of movements and pathing and that's called being outplayed.
  3. Any adc even Vayne ends Heimer's zoning, shiv destroys all his turrets since they're paper
  4. Ganking actually does help if you and your jgler know how to do it
  5. He actually gets weaker the longer a fight goes on especially against tanks, his only defense is Zhonyas and E and he has to hope that within the stasis his opponents are dead
Frontline Fury1 votes

{quoted}

So you came to these conclusions after losing to a Heimerdinger as Kled? I didn't even think a Kled could lose to a Heimerdinger...

  1. Heimerdinger drops off late game, that's always been his problem and all his abilities are skillshots, yes even his turrets are skillshots the beams at least
  2. He's not played because other champs have easier kits that are just better rewarding and have less skillshots IE Annie, Heimer has E with literally the smallest possible AoE to stun to even possibly land a nuke w/ R Rockets and that's assuming you can land all of them. If you got hit with all the rockets then you got read like a book in terms of movements and pathing and that's called being outplayed.
  3. Any adc even Vayne ends Heimer's zoning, shiv destroys all his turrets since they're paper
  4. Ganking actually does help if you and your jgler know how to do it
  5. He actually gets weaker the longer a fight goes on especially against tanks, his only defense is Zhonyas and E and he has to hope that within the stasis his opponents are dead

Perhaps these things help in gold. In Diamond, its easy to say "dodge his skillshots", but it's not that easy in practice. As the player behind the wheel is better, there are much lower chances of heimerdinger making mistakes. Even at level 1 his turrets lets him 1v1 a top laner and their jungler with ease. The ridiculous movement speed granted by his passive means he is literally uncatchable even with red buff.

The problem here is Heimer's strong laning phase. While you may theoretically be able to catch him out late game, in practice one of your players will be so brutally far behind after the laning phase that they may not have finished their first item until baron spawns. To kill heimerdinger in teamfights, at least three players on your team have to focus him - that, coupled with enemy support assistance and heimer's hourglass equals juggernaut-tier pressure from a control mage.

Most of the time, you can't afford to focus him due to his teammates. At the same time, he provides so extremely high magic damage and lane pressure that you are forced to focus him or die to his turrets.

Statikk shiv might be able to take Heimer's turrets down if you go even with him. If you build statikk shiv against heimerdinger, you will not go even with him. By the time you finish the shiv he will likely be one or two full items ahead of you, and laning has ended. Even one of his rockets easily deal 200+ magic damage after he reaches 100 AP, so building attack speed and crit means you can and will die to him or his jungler repeatedly.

Nick Valentine1 votes

Heimer's teamfight is very weak if he is engaged upon

Frontline Fury1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nefarious Nick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PdE7njyw,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-10-26T01:10:57.629+0000)

Heimer's teamfight is very weak if he is engaged upon

In theory. Then he drops the big turret and activates his hourglass as his full team approaches you while you're being chunked and slowed by his turrets. Oops. You are now caught out in a massive AP AOE zone only choice champions like Nunu and Cho'gath can remove.

Tenth Leper1 votes

Sion, Syndra, and Viegar can do some pretty funny things to Heimer too.

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