@Riot, why is Phase Rush getting completely dumpstered on the PBE?

Malicious Metal·Oct 4, 2017·77 votes·20,951 views

Phase Rush has just received a MASSIVE nerf on the PBE. Going from 30-60% Bonus Movement speed to a **measly 15-40% **

Now, keep in mind, there are other changes to the Keystone too.

The cooldown went from: 10 seconds to 15 (Nerf, 5 second longer CD) The slow resistance is MELEE only (Nerf for a lot of champions who used to run it) And they changed the proc requirements from 30% damage to hitting 3 spells (Huge nerf for certain champions like Nasus)

https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/34033822/srs.jpg

Leaving Phase Rush a simply inferior version of Stormraider's surge. So, Riot, why was this nerf warranted?

Because this leaves spellslingers with even less options in terms of keystones.

Edit; yeah, excuse the overexaggeration in the title, but if there's one thing I learnt from League youtubers is that you need clickbait titles!

101 Comments

RiotAzuBKOct 4, 201761 votes

Expect some pretty aggressive tuning on the PBE as we lead up to release. I put the numbers this low to get information regarding the keystone's power level and viable range. Information gathered, there's another pass going in for tomorrow.

That said, Phase Rush is a different keystone from Stormraider's Surge despite its surface-level similarities. The new activation paradigm means the audience is different - melee bruisers are generally happier taking this version whereas some mages like Vladimir have more difficulty activating it. Phase Rush is also easier to activate in early lane, which is meaningful for a keystone that is on the upper end in terms of late-game output.

Malicious MetalOct 4, 201714 votes

Ah, that does make sense. Halving the values did seems pretty harsh though.

Fun fact though: Mordekaiser could proc SRS as early as level ONE in lane whereas he needs at least level 2 before doing so with Phase rush.

BobaFlautistOct 4, 20171 votes

Doesn't an auto-q-q proc it?

My Waifu VanillaOct 4, 20173 votes

Unique abilities

BobaFlautistOct 4, 201716 votes

Or attacks. Second Q might not be a unique ability, but it is a unique attack. In fact, depending on how they define "unique", the first Q could be considered a single ability and a single attack - but considering how much that would overvalue aa enhancements, probably not.

Raid Boss MordeOct 4, 20173 votes

Nope. I tested it out, his Q autos only count as 1 part to Phase Rush.

Votable JesterOct 5, 20179 votes

I think he's talking about a total of 3 autos. 1 without Q empowerment, 2 with. Unless having Q means the autos themselves don't count...

Velzard of KozOct 5, 20172 votes

There's some confusion because there are two things being discussed right now:

Whether first Q-empowered auto counts as two stacks (it's both basic attack and unique ability) or whether it being empowered attack ignores either it being bound to ability or it being used by attack, thus giving only one stack.

The other thing discussed is whether all 3 empowered auto attacks grant 1 stack instead of 3, because despite all of them are basic attacks, they are redefined to be considered one Q-cast, granting only 1 stack for one Q-cast.

Boba claims that it ignores it being bound to Q as they are three attacks anyway, thus granting 3 stacks anyway and then makes theory that the first Q cast-aa might even give 2 stacks as both Q-cast and basic attack even though he doubts it.

Raid Boss Morde then says he tested it counting as 1 part of Phase Rush - which, unfortunately, is confusing without context. He can either mean all 3 Qaas are one unique ability, or he is responding to the second part of Boba's post, saying that each aa counts as 1 stack despite Q being casted before the first one.

Raid Boss MordeOct 6, 20172 votes

Maybe I wasn't being clear then, I was saying that 1 Q enhanced-auto attack will count as 1 stack for Phase Rush. 3 Q enhanced-auto attacks will count as 3 stacks for Phase Rush and proc it.

I was just stating that because some people might think a spell and auto both count as separate stacks, which would make 1 Q enhanced-auto count as 2 stacks for Phase Rush.

OyddAWqJ5rOct 6, 20171 votes

All 3 Q's will only give 1 stack total? Sad life. I guess you can auto-Q with W active for Phase Rush right?

Raid Boss MordeOct 6, 20171 votes

No, all 3 Q's will give you 3 stacks. I was just saying that 1 Q enhanced auto will not give you 2 stacks (spell + auto)

DeathBurstOct 5, 20178 votes

It works. They recently changed the "unique" with "separate", to make it clear, but even before it worked.

Two Q count as two hits. They just don't want DoT/multi-hit spells to proc the Keystone in one button, like Morgana AoE, MF Make it Rain, Malzahar DoT, etc.

OyddAWqJ5rOct 6, 20171 votes

Does W1-aa-W2 not proc it? Does the DoT W and reactivated W count as the same "unique" attack?

SweedishGunnerOct 4, 20178 votes

The numbers should be no lower than current SS most likely. It's a pretty healthy keystone at the moment imo.

DoozkuOct 4, 20173 votes

So in other words, you gutted it on purpose so you can get balance numbers on what power level this mastery should be on. Fair enough, it is pbe and it would be good to understand how powerful these effects can actually be.

MelledoneusOct 4, 20175 votes

If anything, predator needs to be looked at.

Too much power early on, basically makes junglers like Hecarim and Rammus inescapable monsters when they gank.

OyddAWqJ5rOct 5, 20171 votes

I'm waiting for the obnoxiousness that is Quinn top using it. Imagine the insane roam potential of a Quinn using an Ult-augmented Predator.

Zoom zoom one shot every 3 mins RIP mid laner.

KloqdqOct 5, 20171 votes

She already does this.

SzGamer227Oct 5, 20171 votes

Right.

Now add increased movement speed and additional burst damage.

KloqdqOct 5, 20171 votes

Good, now it's even more toxic.

Mana band works on Ult's right? Now the whole mana problem is gone.

OyddAWqJ5rOct 5, 20171 votes

Oh shit you right. Incoming Quinn top winrate skyrocket.

KloqdqOct 6, 20171 votes

This just screams toxic dear god. Don't pass this around, I don't need Rocketeer Quinn destroying me ;-;

KeitronOct 5, 20172 votes

What about champions like Aurelion Sol who will be deprived most of his movement speed power with this nerf.

ForeverLaxxOct 6, 20171 votes

Guess that means you think something else is what Vladimir "wants" and I can't find anything worthwhile except perhaps the keystone that slows on auto-attacks. Which is frankly just sad.

TheOnlyJoeOct 15, 20171 votes

I know you might not even see this, but i'd genuinely love to discuss some stuff about Phase Rush with you, as a Syndra Main who always takes phase rush on her.

I made a thread going into further detail about it here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/QqdfQXm3-riot-pbe-phase-rush

TheOnlyJoeOct 16, 20171 votes

Opening up the keystone for more people is fine, but for a keystone that is in the Sorcery tree, it should be good on mages and the people who used to run SRS, it shouldn't be mainly optimalized for melee bruisers at the cost of every ranged champion that liked the keystone before. Removing slow resistance for ranged champions while the keystone is on a tree that attracts a lot of ranged champions is a bit counteractive.

Anyway, despite you obviously trying to make the keystone more diverse, it is doing the opposite. With it's current values the keystone isn't worth taking on mages (because it's massively nerfed compared to SRS) and most immobile bruisers who ran SRS will also not be taking this. Simply because it requires 3 hits. Proc'ing SRS early in the game was not an issue for champions like Garen and Morde, but it is also likely that with Phase Rush, they'll end up struggling a lot more in the midgame and lategame.

Garen, Nasus, and Morde are all immobile champs that could proc SRS easily into the mid-late game (Nasus and Garen with just a Q), meanwhile Phase Rush means they have to stick to their target and hit them 3 times before getting the speedboost (Which doesn't happen often if you're a melee immobile bruiser) Plenty of mages later in the game have a way harder time proc'ing the keystone too

The ones who have an easier time proc'ing Phase Rush now are the mobile champions, AKA the ones who won't run the keystone

VargrjalmerAug 11, 20181 votes

Only good keystone on mages is electrocute, arcane comet and aerie are actually better on melee range champs because it actually lands 80% of the time :l

RiotSparkleOct 5, 20179 votes

I know AzuBK has already responded here but it's probably worth reminding that we're still tinkering on PBE on ALL numbers for runes. Don't be alarmed if something looks really powerful or really weak in the numbers, we're actively adjusting these every single day. :)

JbelsOct 4, 20178 votes

Good. Now we won't have to worry about Juggernauts monopolizing this keystone any further. They're supposed to be slow and immobile, not running high-speed marathons across the Rift to kill you

Malicious MetalOct 4, 201725 votes

And ADC's are supposed to be squishy and easily slain.

Classes having ways to mitigate their weaknesses is nothing new in league and most Juggernauts couldn't even use SRS that well, especially not Phase Rush now that they need to hit 3 different abilities instead of just nuking a fool with their heavy damage.

PennsOct 4, 20175 votes

Classes having ways to mitigate their weaknesses

how do assassins do that tho :(

anti shield item we need u hehe

Karn BishopOct 4, 20173 votes

Don't worry about the downvotes, its just adc and enchanter mains fearful of such an item ruining their "skillful" plays.

AirKingNeoOct 4, 201715 votes

No, anti-shield items is just a shitty idea because it's a band-aid fix to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.

Karn BishopOct 5, 20173 votes

Well riot disagrees which is why they confirmed that they are indeed working on anti shield items so downvote me all you want it wont change this item existing soon. [sg-miss-fortune]

AirKingNeoOct 5, 20176 votes

And Riot created and allowed the creation of new Thornmail and Bramble Vest.

Riot's opinion stopped mattering in a sense of who's wrong and right LONG BEFORE THIS.

notice me Sin piOct 4, 20176 votes

juggernauts definitely should not be high-speed sprinters, but they should still be able to punish ranged champions with some sticking power if they do get close enough.

JbelsOct 4, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=notice me Sin pi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PZvEnMAg,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2017-10-04T23:03:39.856+0000)

juggernauts definitely should not be high-speed sprinters, but they should still be able to punish ranged champions with some sticking power if they do get close enough.

Most Juggernauts have the tools to stick to people they catch out pretty decently. The only ones who don't are Garen and Illaoi, but they have.......other strengths...

Raid Boss MordeOct 5, 20172 votes

Mordekaiser doesn't. Garen and Illaoi do though

Garen has a speed boost and slow removal from his Q, tenacity from his W, and a high base movement speed.

Illaoi has a mini-gapcloser, a slow on her E which helps catch people if they run away, and high base movement speed.

PB4UAMEOct 5, 20172 votes

The slow on E is only if you kill it, or they leave the range. If they have any CC, no matter how soft, her E alone will not let her stick to anyone. If they have a gapcloser/escape, forget it.

Raid Boss MordeOct 5, 20174 votes

Yeah, I know, I play a lot of Illaoi. The person above said she didn't have a way to catch/stick to people, which she does... doesn't matter if its bad, its still CC and mobility

PB4UAMEOct 6, 20171 votes

CC I'll grant, but its a slow, the softest of CCs. The mobility claim is also a bit of a stretch with how slow it is (with end game items you walk as fast as it moves), how short ranged, and also for the fact that it requires an enemy target.

Like, if anyone claimed Illaoi was a "mobile bruiser" or something similar, I'd laugh my ass off. But yeah, technically she has those things conditionally.

statelesskillerOct 5, 20176 votes

im not going to say its that bad for nasus. its not just three spells its 3 attacks and spells. which means for nasus E AA Q and you proc it every time . . . AT LEAST THATS MY UNDERSTANDING

Titanium70Oct 5, 20171 votes

Beacuse 30% is boaderline broken - it would be take or die. I waited for it to hit Live at it is - but someone actually put a little bit of thought into it.

grats Riot.

VlädïmïrOct 5, 20175 votes

In what way is 30% broken?

The current SRS gives a 40% MS boost, slow resist for ANY taker, and has a lower CD.

Considering alternatives are getting buffed relative to now...why would it be must-take?

Titanium70Oct 5, 20171 votes

The current - requires you to deal massive BURST-DMG! AKA will never Trigger consistently in laningphase! (which is why only a few champs are using it)

The new one will be triggered as TLD! AKA, go trade - get the speed boost:

What's the result if you win the trade:

A) Opponent has Phase and gets the boost as well.
B) Opponent has something else and has to flash or die since you catch up quickly to land the rest of your Kit.

Just imagine a Syndra lands a Q-AA-W on you that's something you can trade back and she wont use E since she wont catchup after knocking you back to make the spend mana worth.

But with the boost? hahaha... she can position her selfe perfectly for another Q-E -> Q for kill. OR imediately retreat making it impossible for you to do anything similar like a trade.

Getting 30%MS in early laning is busted beyond belive. Any unfavorable matchups turns instantly into an impossible one. 24/7 Cheese in Top and Mid is what would happpen with this thing into the game.

TheOnlyJoeOct 15, 20171 votes

It's not massive burst damage, plenty of mages can proc SRS just as easily as the current phase rush from lvl 3-4 onward, and for most mages such as Syndra or Taliyah it's actually harder to proc Phase Rush later into the game (Syndra can proc SRS easily with QE or WQ from midgame onwards)

And Syndra using Q-AA-W ? You can proc SRS with that easily aslong as you have a bit of AP (a lost chapter or something) and they don't have MR

Titanium70Oct 15, 20171 votes

I'm talking here about the phase before the first back. Where the presure of such a speedboost would be unbearable. "cheese".

I talk about the Lucians the Cassios Renektons and Rivens abusing the sh** out of this rune. While you can do literally NOTHING about it. (Besides hugging your tower and saying goodbye to ANY CS.)

This and as I said - consistency is the keyword. Triggering SRS early is quite a gamble. Even for Syndra - which is why its considered useless until mid to late game.

Sometimes I really wonder how people are so blind to this abuse cases... .But hey someone at riot has to have those ideas as well. xD

Same for Precense of Mind - this Rune wont be fun early just as Phase (and hey you can take both! D:) Yet there are still alot of people defending them for some reason - I really wonder why...

Do you really want to play against this Cassio Top - Level Up to 2 or 3 - hitting a single Q and than deleting your HP bar with infinite mana and ridiculous MS?

Why do you want to play against that??? x'D

TheOnlyJoeOct 16, 20171 votes

Have you even played with the current SRS live or the Phase Rush on PBE? 15% ms is absolutely nothing and feels like nothing, and it's even less when you realize it scales off your movementspeed and most mages have low base MS so to get the most out of it you want to have full boots

And no, i'm a syndra main lol and i always run SRS on her. I do not have any issues proc'ing SRS early before backing with a WQE combo or sometimes even just Q>E>AA, cassio doesn't have too many issues proc'ing it either before backing because her poisoned E base damage is high

Titanium70Oct 16, 20171 votes

Sure 15% is not 30% but it's still something you can use - however this rune scales so good into late it's a necessary trade off considering its new consistence on alot of champions.

And I've used it often enough to realize I dont want an opponent triggering this thing as consistent as TLD at level 2-3-4!