What has been done to the keystone system

ThatHaleState··3 votes·932 views

This Picture attached show exactly what has been done to the keystone mastery system.

[IMG]http://i63.tinypic.com/174tj6.png[/IMG]

This Picture shows 10 thunderlords decree in 1 game at a challenger level (possibly masters).

Keystones. When they were first described to us, they were described as "game changing" new choices that will dramatically increase the ways that 1 person can be played because each mastery is extremely good in its own right.

Now what are keystones? Another mindless decision based on no diversity while also making those decisions feel so unrewarding that we might as well just put other points into other trees. Because the top level abilities might as well be just as impactful. This is true by about almost every single keystone. The only 2 that seem to be at the same level at which when they came out is Thunderlords Decree and Grasp of the Undying.

When are we going to get more choices, and when are you going to return the Keystones to what the were supoosed to be game changing KEYSTONES to the champs ability by greatly improving something in their kit by a large amount. Being something another person goes "oh man, thats scary" no just "so many thunderlords."

I hope this gets remedied in some way because the mastery system will be right back to where it started very soon if this doesnt get changed. Right back to cookie cutter pages that never get changed.

Update: http://www.surrenderat20.net/p/current-pbe-balance-changes.html#minion

Currently Keystone updates are happening on the PBE. What do we think about the changes and do we think they will change the problem?

Edit: Seems that everyone is saying 'they are balancing, be patient, what do you expect, etc"

My main issue is a mix of 2 things. That 1 keystone is head over heels better than the rest and yes that should be balanced out eventually. But the other half of it is that I bet they will end up being "balanced" to pointlessness. And as I stated above, they are supposed to be "game changing," not just as bad as the next one.

14 Comments

JJI7442 votes

OK, let me get this out of the way first: Thunderlord's is too generally strong. You would expect it to be the focus of combo champions, but it works on dam near everyone as is.

That said, part of the reason it is so popular right now is because

A) precision got buffed, and is now highly desired by anyone planning on dealing damage. B) The other 2 keystones in the cunning tree are very Niche. Stormchasers is only even remotely good if you can proc it reliably and value MS a lot. Windspeakers is only good on champs that have either frequent or multi-target heals/shields.

So you have a bunch of damage dealers speccing cunning for precision, and only 1 keystone mastery that fits the vat majority of them.

Again though, Thunderlords: just too strong. (Also likely too widely useable, literally every champ I can think of can proc it easily) I just don't think its popularilty is solely due to the mastery itself.

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

Maybe you should check out the PBE changes. They are buffing the other Keystones to match it.

Sythriel Draken1 votes

for a patch that's not going to go live for a month... The buffs to the other keystones aren't bringing back the diversity as even with all the buffs, thunderlords is STILL going to be better.

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

Balancing is a process. I don't know what else you expect.

ThatHaleState1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PZkTYViB,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-15T02:51:32.318+0000)

Balancing is a process. I don't know what else you expect.

The issue is that they aren't balancing. They are blatantly nerfing the other keystones to dirt while simultaneously buffing thunderlords every patch so far. So what i expect is much more than that.

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

I just told you they are buffing every other Keystone next patch.

ThatHaleState1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PZkTYViB,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-15T02:58:56.855+0000)

I just told you they are buffing every other Keystone next patch.

See but you are wrong. They are blatantly nerfing bond of stone, and fervor is having nothing more than pretty number changes that still dont help the problem of it only being useful directly on champs. And warlords is only getting a scaling component into a part of the game where everyone already has lifesteal and this keystone will matter very little.

Bemapon1 votes

Did you miss what they just said? They are buffing the other Keystones as well. They are balancing they cant just magically perfectly balance everything.

ThatHaleState1 votes

{quoted}

Did you miss what they just said? They are buffing the other Keystones as well. They are balancing they cant just magically perfectly balance everything.

They are changing, not buffing. I would call 2/3 of them buffs of any significance, but 2 of them are hardly ever used to to their niche component ie stormchaser and strength of ages

lee3508523021 votes

hey OP please read my thread

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/RL7VHAUL-riot-please-respond-i-think-i-have-great-ideas-for-the-keystones

i think i did a good job of buffing all the other keystones to equal thunderlords

what do you think op. do you like my ideas?

i hope riot reads my ideas

Stand Alone Wolf1 votes

Yes, senpai will notice you someday Senpai will notice Someday. . .

ThatHaleState1 votes

And on that note, mentioning the other keystones i thought i'd put my opinions in the mix of what i feel about the changes on the PBE.

Warlords - decreased healing to start and greatly heal later, but when the crits happen on a reliable basis, most champs already have lifsteal. So this still is only a weak mastery for yasuo and tryndamere who can acheive the high crit chance fast and early

Fervor - This ability because almost useless the moment that they made the stacking champion only, and since that did not change, all they did was move some numbers around. It's still damn near useless. I'd rather go Decree for the burst.

Deathfire - This is just a weird one in general. It works super well with DOT mages, but can seem underwhelming for others without such a mechanic. I like the buff, but idk how much it will help.

StormRaiders - I actually LOVE this change. I still have 0 clue whos ever gonna use it, but i love it. GJ Rito

Bond of Stone - Yet another hard nerf to this keystone. Is is really that strong? Am i just not seeing it? Yes you upped the base reduction, but removed the doubled mechanic when near allies. Significant nerf that I'm just apparently not understanding, so I'll leave it alone.

Strength of the Ages - I think it is a simple buff and a good one. The Math shows that to get the same 100 hp back at 6% of max hp you would only need to have about 1,666 max hp. Which as a tank taking this ability will not be hard at all. Although, i do believe that the hp number should be raised a little. Personal opinion i suppose.

Sailor Mint1 votes

The problems happen when people are bandwagoning instead of doing some research themselves.
At least 5 people in your picture would benefit from picking a different keystone. Tanks not running Grasp of the Undying is painful to watch.

Of course, Thunderlord's easy to proc instant frontloaded damage is easier to use and is easier to appreciate.

Dreadlocks1 votes

they're already buffing the other ones :) http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/12/1214-pbe-update.html they're pretty good buffs too i think it'll change this thunderlords shit XD

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