Boards›Gameplay

Another Sighstone Idea: How to reward supports for skill at position

ThatHaleState··20 votes·1,411 views
Sightstone

Sightstone. The necessary item to be considered a support, is an obvious must buy for any support that is not Brand, Lux, or shit that is just trying to hard carry and not care about their ADC. (ADC's in 2017 LUL)

One of the main skills that supports start with is consistently warding in "correct" / useful places. And that does not only mean the bot lane Tri-bush and river bush. Mid laners love that support that roams up when available, ganks mids, clears the enemy pink that you couldnt try to clear without dying, and dropping you vision like a little saint.

What I suggest is a reward system for being good at the other side of vision: DESTROYING the OTHER TEAMS vision.

I Believe that if any sort of recharge system for sightstone were to exist, it should exist in this manner. Sightstone should recharge a ward every time you manage to destroy an enemy ward. This rewards skill in finding and destroying vision, while also encouraging more defense of wards, and this could also help with the experience issue supports have by them not having to back as often if they are skilled at clearing wards.

TL:DR - Sightstone should recharge 1 ward every time you destroy a ward. Rewards skill, not free

25 Comments

ChaddyFantome16 votes

This would actually cause an imbalance in the vision game where it basically snowballs into the winning teams favor.

The winning team already has an advantage is having more opportunities to both secure vision AND remove enemy vision than the losing team does.

Allowing then to basically get more vision and the ability to deny vision even more on top of that just seems like a recipe for making early leads equaling out to surrenders at 20, or in higher elo, games lost at 15 minutes.

ThatHaleState2 votes

I could see this, but the current league is already a snowball festival. The losing team has to take chances to get back into it, that includes the support and jungler and anyone else possibly walking into blind areas to clear and get vision. Plus it requires team efforts. Dont take back the whole map, choose an objective and own that side of the map. Doesnt matter if the enemy has wards on Blue if yall are focusing top towers or baron/herald etc.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Curator of Tanks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nF4a08iL,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2017-01-10T18:01:44.598+0000)

I could see this, but the current league is already a snowball festival.

Okay I'm gonna say this to you, but this goes out to my opinion of this line of reasoning in general. Why is it, that if we can acknowledge that there is a snowballing problem, that it is deemed okay here in your argument to basically add on to the issue?

Wouldn't it therefore only exasperate just how negatively the idea would impact the game if it makes an already existing problem_ even worse?_

ThatHaleState1 votes

I said I could see it, not that I believe it or that I think he is right. I see it as a possibility not an inevitability. Meaning that it could also not be, therefore not adding on to the problem. That would require testing, if only we had some sort of Server that was specifically for testing things. We could even call it the PBE lol

ChaddyFantome1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Curator of Tanks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nF4a08iL,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-11T17:39:49.191+0000)

I said I could see it, not that I believe it or that I think he is right. I see it as a possibility not an inevitability. Meaning that it could also not be, therefore not adding on to the problem. That would require testing, if only we had some sort of Server that was specifically for testing things. We could even call it the PBE lol

that's like the weakest reply i have ever read in the history of my time on the boards. Talk about badly trying to save face.

chipndip12 votes

Yeah, it sounds good at first, but that allows the winning support to just run through a few wards and end up having like 6 wards per back instead of 4 (can destroy up to 2 wards per lvl 9 sweeper charge).

GhostOfTsushima3 votes

And as all of you Bronze and Silver should know Support cannot leave their ADC

even in Plat support can't even roam for 1 sec

As soon as you decide you're going to go roam and gank mid or set deep vision

YOUR ADC IS FUCKING DEAD AND NOW HES GOING TO FUCKING RAGE AT YOU BECAUSE YOU LEFT HIM ALL ALONE HE NEEDED YOU TO HOLD HIS FUCKING HAND THE WHOLE GAME

Looknook5 votes

A good support will leave the ADC and accomplish things around the map, such as snowballing mid and warding. It is the ADC's job to realize that their support isn't there and play safe. If the ADC dies while the support is helping the rest of the map it is the ADC's fault, not the supports.

GhostOfTsushima1 votes

Support can Snowball??????

When did this shit happen?????

I didn't know Support can Snowball now LOL

TONY IS SO HOT1 votes

only if dey playing snowday bard doe

dim2a2 votes

As brand support (when i get autofilled there, or trade with someone that got autofilled), I have a correction: sighstone IS mandatory on good brand support. Yes, you build AP afterwards (and can get a few cheap components beforehand), but skipping vision is not optional if you want to maximize your chance of winning.

Love the idea though, but just had to chime in when I saw you imply that sighstone is not mandatory on brand (or anyone actually, maybe except champions with boxes/shrooms to keep map control) to be considered a support.

ForFoxSakes2 votes

Only problem I see is that there could be upset supports when someone else last hits the ward for the gold/exp and doesnt give the support their sightstone recharge. If the support doesnt have to last hit it and just needs to get a hit in, this would be super OP and constantly refills and can go from 0 to full charges from sweeping a heavily contested section with their team

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

I mean I don't mind this change, but uhh....

LeeSin Reminder that this guy buys this item too if item 3711 isn't his cup of tea in certain matches.

Death by Glamour1 votes

I was gonna say riot could just nerf him accordingly to compensate

But that wouldn't happen

Anidan1 votes

It would be utility vs. damage. They wouldn't have to nerf him for that, it takes care of itself.

ThatHaleState2 votes

I could see this as an issue, but if he decides to buy sightstone then he is 800g behind more dmg purchases. This could mean instead of one shotting you, you actually might get away. This kind of purchase from him is a kind of utility purchase. Do I have wards to always jump, or do I do more dmg when i have the ability to ward jump. His choice

Death by Glamour1 votes

Great idea op

ph1234k1 votes

If this change happened I would take sightstone in so many more games, and I am not talking about in the support role since that is the core build there already.

I find the starting statements in your post a bit odd though. Some hate for meta supports or perhaps just the way a few people build them but then relating that to them not caring about their ADC. Purchasing SS isn't done because it helps your ADC, it is done because it helps you roam (like literally not caring about your ADC lol). If your support doesn't get SS then your ADC lane is far easier, it is the rest of the game that won't be so easy.

ThatHaleState1 votes

The not caring about the adc portion is based around those supports not caring who kills the enemy, where in a perfet world the adc would get every kill. As for the SS statement i believe that is a very false statment. SS makes laning easier, because you can extend past your turret without fear of being killed by an unseen gank. As for how SS helps, I believe it helps the entire team. As for roaming, roam when it is garunteed to be ok or not a detriment to your little adc baby. Such as after a gank, or after your adc backs. Spend an extra 15 sec roaming up to mid and looking for wards and such possibly a gank before you go. If your back timings arent awful, your adc should catch a wave at the tower and give you time to catch back up to him.

ph1234k2 votes

There are definitely those players that don't understand how to feed their ADC (or why picking an ADC is a waste if you refuse to feed them, they are already late game champs in one of the fastest average game times). There is a reason for this.

That reason is that these players who adhere to this meta did not create the meta, they do not really understand it. They were told things like "Bot lane has a Support and an ADC" and then played and watched a bunch of games, involving mostly low level players also trying to adhere to this misunderstood meta. They are learning the meta with every game and that is fine, it is a lot to learn.

As far as when support roam, pretty much once that first turret comes down in bot lane your support should roam for the rest of the game. This isn't a concrete rule but it should happen by this time in the vast majority of correct games. In some games it should happen even sooner. Roaming and helping out the entire team is the purpose of the support. You can see this in any high level game, or from coaches such as n3ac3y. For the SS, I am not saying that it doesn't help bot lane, but if you built it just to help bot lane, that is such a waste. You have 2 players in bot lane, so you are already less susceptible to ganks and have more wards available than any other lane even without SS. If two solo lanes with more gank routes can handle half the wards I hope it is obvious why SS is not meant to create a tiny vision boost in the bot lane. What it is helpful in doing is establishing map dominance, vision in the right places. Sure you have extra wards during lane phase but that is not the power of S. The power of SS is to pull of a gank and then set down a round of deep wards so that your team can track the enemy jungler and snowball. To have utility to fulfil your role which is to provide support to your team wherever needed.

Example random high level game (First recent vid I clicked on, sorry that it is in Korean): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMHZKsRWtj8 In this video you will see tower go down at around 15 minutes, they push another immediately and then the support roams for the rest of the game and ADC rotates top as he should after winning lane. Very specifically, the support is going where he is needed, he is not babysitting the ADC because he already got that guy past his early game which is the weak part for ADC.

Example from a masters level coach explaining how to carry as a support (includes all roles if interested): https://youtu.be/VbIYz9k1rBY?t=6m22s

ChaddyFantome1 votes

The way to fix Sight stone is to remove it and actually balance the vision game properly instead of using its existence as a crutch.

Onkel Malte1 votes

GImme that pls! It sounds at least helathier than free charges and encourages the team to effectively manage their wards.

Yaśuo Main1 votes

Sighstone

SIGHstone

title pls

ThatHaleState1 votes

Youre the first one to notice i guess, cuz i hadnt LOL

FourVsFive1 votes

I think Sightstone should give 2 gold per 10 sec, so us supports can afford red wards.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by ThatHaleState

Level 6 & 7 Mastery.... How you are making us get it has nothing to do with actual Champion Mastery
Gameplay161 comments
248
votes
@Meddler Have you ever thought about building an AP path for QSS?
Gameplay85 comments
61
votes
The Hidden Reason Why These Smite Supps Are Getting The Shaft
Gameplay190 comments
55
votes
As a tank player, this imbalance has always irked me.....
Gameplay120 comments
39
votes
Anyone else forget Kayn existed?
Gameplay56 comments
37
votes
Discussion with a Zac main
Gameplay29 comments
17
votes