Dont have it deal a maximum of 40 damage at level 1. PLEASE, Riot. Rengar's Q is already perhaps the least satisfying ability in the entire game - please dont give it to Xin Zhao too. These sweeping attacks are extremely unsatisfying for the player, so AT LEAST let them deal some damage.
coback25 votesI agree with this.. Rengars Q is terrible..
Revert Rengar should be the moral of this post.
Abibyama10 votesThe cast animation speed should scale with bonus Attack speed. His play style will involve a lot of Attack speed so it helps not losing a lot of dps when casting w late game. Plus it also helps further separating this ability from Rengar's Q and Sejuani's W like the designer wanted to
Chembaron Yamada3 votesThat would kinda kill the purpose of being a dodgable skillshot, wouldn't it? But if they do this, they should do the same for Jinx W.
Abibyama1 votesI would suggest that but put a cap or give his stab a bleed effect when it hits champions
Chembaron Yamada3 votesAnother solution I thought of: Let the damage scale with attack speed, not the animation. It would decrease the damage loss for casting the spell, but still be a dodgable skillshot.
Schàdenfreude3 votesYasuo Q cast time scales with attack speed.
TheHappyReaperz2 votesNot the same champion, not the same thing. Don't compare them.
Schàdenfreude1 votesPerhaps comparing Xin Zhao to Yasuo wasn't enough or you don't see it as justified. Let me put it another way.
Xin Zhao is considered to be an autoattack champion that constantly sticks to his target, much like Master Yi. Having an ability that delays that main source of damage (the autoattack) makes the ability more of a hinderance than a benefit. Moreover, Xin Zhao stands still while casting his W. Even though there is a slow at the end of it, Xin Zhao still might lose damage off not autoattacking. That is why the top comment of this comment thread suggested having the cast time scale with attack speed.
The comparison with Yasuo is justified because Yasuo is also particularly reliant on autoattacks. Apart from his Q, that is his only other source of consistent damage. If Q cast time was too long, you might as well just autoattack with Yasuo rather than ever using your Q.
TheHappyReaperz1 votesSo there is a trade-off for using the ability, adding some skill expression to XZ. Good XZ will know in which situations using your W reduces your DPS, but bad ones, will not. I see nothing wrong with this.
As for Yasuo, its a completely different situation. In order for Yasuo for ult, he needs three stacks on his Q (when he is all by his lonesome). As the game becomes faster paced, as time goes on, the time Yasuo needs to stack his Q has to be decreased, otherwise he falls behind. Early game, it needs to be longer, to offer periods were Yasuo is vulnerable. Hence, the scaling. This is nothing like XZ's W, do not compare different champions, it never ends well.
Hello I am Bird1 votesBut the cd isn't affected by his animation time?
The animation time is directly tied to dps, not stacking his q. He can stack his q regardless.
TheHappyReaperz1 votesThink of it this way. If your Q has a CD of 4 seconds, and a cast time of 1 second, it will be 5 seconds before you can use your Q again. If your Q has a CD of 4 seconds, and a cast time of 0.5 seconds, it will be 4.5 seconds before you can use your Q again.
Yasuo can stack his Q regardless, but it is faster to stack it when the animation time is shorter.
Decrit1 votesHis W should not be part of his dps rotation, but rather backup damage when he gets kited.
How much of that is useful i leave it to you.
ModKnightsKemplar1 votesWell....
It's not for damage. The most important reason to use this ability is the slow. Late game, you'll want to auto for more damage anyway, so I don't see the point in buffing it for damage, tbh.
chipndip15 votesI like Sej's sweeping attack, though.
TwinkiePro3 votesI've tried it out. It's such a lackluster ability and feels nearly useless in an actual duel. I think thoughts were to engage immediately with E, attack a few, that use W to keep them from running away, but the combo doesn't feel good; or rather his W doesn't feel good to use. Such a decrease in DPS
N3mO061 votesYou know, there is sense in sweeping with a spear
There is sense in sweeping with an hummer with a chain (
's weapon)
I can't find the sense in sweeping with a knife
Rengar's q is ugly in animation and concept and now it isn't even in unique(like old q used to be even if with an easier concept)
Chembaron Yamada7 votesOld Q was just an AA reset with additional damage. How is that unique?
The Stabby Tabby9 votesPeople irrationally pretending old rengar was better
Frontline Fury3 votesHe was much more satisfying, much more versatile and an overall more successful champion.
chipndip18 votesPeople irrationally pretending that we didn't gut the fuck out of that champion for murdering people from invisibility in .5 seconds.
I Main Swain2 voteshonestly i prefered playing against the old rengar over the new rengar, facing new rengar feels like just free kills, hes so trash. sure the old one could just destroy you instantly if you were squishy but so could pretty much any other assassin if given the opportunity. dont get me wrong he was too strong, but they turned him into the trashiest of trash
Frightning2 votesPeople irrationally pretending that we didn't gut the fuck out of that champion for murdering people from invisibility in .5 seconds.
Yea, I remember when surviving Rengar was a reaction time test. Glad that's gone, but he is SUCH shit now. All he really needed was less dmg on Q (and the triple Q/similar bugs gone) and he'd have actually been balanced with his original kit. But nope, riot likes to gut melee champs as of late. Rengar's not alone, 
has been gutted by rework (was fine before, just unpopular), 
was gutted by rework too (granted, his old self was pretty unacceptably cancerous). Now my boy 
looks to be next on the hit list (what did he ever do to warrant this? It's not like he's badly designed or anything really, just struggling to be an effective diver in a meta where divers are shit, which is entirely to be expected).
Frontline Fury1 votesI almost made Diamond V with him when i got news of his rework... I dont know, i just feel like quitting the game now.
Malicious Metal3 votesIt felt so much more satisfying to use.
Chembaron Yamada5 votesThat is an appropriate description, but claiming that his old Q was more unique than the current one is simply wrong. There was nothing unique about it.
Frontline Fury1 votesOh i am not criticizing the sweep itself - in that regard (as someone who grew up with Dynasty Warriors, Xin Zhao's distinct inspiration) i love that he finally gets a proper combat sweep. What i am terrified of is him getting the Rengar treatment - as mentioned in my examples, Rengar's sweep is TERRIBLE because it relies solely on scaling AD - which means in the early game, even if you go with a full AD rune page and a long sword you will at most deal 50 damage with his Q. That's almost half the damage a basic attack does.
statelesskiller1 votesactually it does 100 . . . because both parts of the strike deal that damage, the slash and the stab. and its really easy to hit, and has a stupid low cooldown so even dekars monkey playstyle in the early game can get him easy kills
Frontline Fury1 votesNo, it does not deal 100. Each portion of the attack gets separate damage reduction from enemy armor, meaning that it deals less than half of its written stats to any potential target - even minions, despite them having 0 armor.
thefance1 votesEach portion of the attack gets separate damage reduction from enemy armor,
You probably think "30 armor" means 30 damage is subtracted from each instance of physical damage. But that's not how it works in LoL. Resistances reduce damage by a percentage. Therefore, it doesn't matter whether Xin Q is 100 or 50 + 50 since 77% * 100 = 77% * (50 + 50).
meaning that it deals less than half of its written stats to any potential target - even minions, despite them having 0 armor.
I have no idea how you drew this conclusion. But that's not how it works either. Since minions have no resistances, all attacks apply the equivalent of true-damage.
Check out the wiki. Final Damage is calculated by multiplying Initial Damage by the Damage Mitigation Formula. The Damage Mitigation Formula is defined as
m(r) = 100 / (100 + r) where m = mitigation ratio r = armor or magic_resist
e.g. m(30) = 100 / (100 + 30) m(30) = 77%
You can confirm this in game by mousing over you character stats (press the [c] key). A pop-up will display the mitigation percentage if you hover over the resistances.
Frontline Fury1 votesDo i really have to prove it? Sigh I never claimed armor was flat reduction. You simply jumped to that conclusion yourself.
Here's a couple brief recordings of what i'm talking about that i just made.
https://i.gyazo.com/a37e8b41071698ce2d17c0daccf6b412.mp4
https://i.gyazo.com/be990bb86c1dde14cc645020610db491.mp4
They're recorded with gyazo, so i cant seem to make them pop up in the reply itself.
But well, besides the fact it deals so little damage you might as well stick to basic attacking
It ALSO inflicts a brief SELF-ROOT during the animation, AND makes you jump forwards if you're not careful.
In other words, the only real level of skill that has been added to Rengar with this Q is avoiding self-sabotage through complicated mechanics.
You should require skill to utilize a champion's mechanics properly. Not to be able to utilize them at all without sabotaging yourself.
statelesskiller1 votesokay my mistake i thought level 1 q was 50 damage a strike not 25. my bad. that being said you arent using it properly. you AA Q AA. q resets aa timer. so the full level 1 combo to properly use new rengar is to
jump Q AAQ AA. if your dekar you take storm raiders surge and you beat the shit out of them or simply disengage at that point becuase rengars empowered q HURTS level one with a crunchy 200% ad ratio and 100 base damage per slash which means 200 per strike. (guess where his power budget went?)
Frontline Fury1 votesLevel 1 empowered Q has 60 base damage, so yes that one does deal damage - about half that of 3 Riven Qs without basic attacks in between, or one hit from a Xin Zhao Q at level 1. Rengar's empowered abilities are not in question here - the feeling of his Q is. For being such an extremely unsatisfying and unfun spell to use, it should at least be a little more powerful early game (and a little less late game, because even when it hits for 1000 using the empowered hit it still has no "impact" feeling. It feels like you are gently blowing on the enemy, and they lose all their health.)
statelesskiller1 votesim not sure why you think its unsatisfying? the noise is great. like that sound is amazing, not quite as good as gangplank Q striking maokai sound, but still great. it genuinely sounds like this monster is slashing these blades through the air with massive force. the animations leaves this lovely trail behind to show how fast he is doing it. like i love the Q. before it was . . . just a empowered AA with a stat stick thrown into it. now it requires good aim to land its full damage. so its ALOT more fun then the old q which the most complex thing about it was the triple q combo. which wasnt even complex? it was just muscle memory.
thefance1 votesI already agree that Rengar Q deals a total of 50 base-damage. My observation was that your comment about armor appears bizarre enough to potentially betray a misunderstanding.
Let me put it this way. How does a zero-armor minion mititgage damage by more than half? And why is it relevant whether armor mitigation distributes over both stages of Rengar's Q?
Hello I am Bird1 votesI thought it was more of a stab and rip the gut out of their foes. That's what I get from the animation at first glace anyways, it just happens to be in a sweeping shape.
PimpStickNasus1 votesHow is the new Rengar Q dissatisfying to use in the slightest?
Frontline Fury3 votesHave you tried it? Its not so much about the fact it either deals no damage or deals broken damage as the fact it has no "impact". You use it and you feel like you slapped someone with a thin sheet of paper.
The Ultimator3 votesIt deals less damage than an AA early game and it basically roots you to use it. An assassin shouldn't have an ability that feels clunky and unsatisfying to use like that.
Chembaron Yamada1 votesJoke's on you, Rengar is a diver now, not an assassin. :^)
Sorry, but I had to, since that is how it is now. He is classified as a diver, not an assassin. And in my opinion, that even makes sense....
One point many people mentioned in the past is that Rengar, unlike most of his fellows, doesn't really have a great escape. He goes in with ult and mostly will stay in. He has a defensive tool with his heal. And his overall kit is more suited for extended fights instead of bursting enemies down in a milisecond.
And it makes sense from the lore point of view, too. He is a hunter searching for a challenge, it kinda makes sense that he is a fighter instead of an assassin now. Because surprising someone and instantly killing him is no challenge. Having a long lasting fight to death feels more like that.
Frontline Fury1 votesYou wanna hear an even funnier joke? Rengar performed much better as a diver than an assassin pre-rework - and he performs much better as an assassin and much worse as a diver post-rework than he ever did before it.
Do you realize why he is a diver now? It's not because his kit allows it - his kit leaves him so squishy he is borderline marksman. His Q is the ONLY useful ability in his kit besides his ult. His W is literally there just to take up a spell slot. Its only useful purpose is to give him a stack for his passive Q, because its heal is miniscule and its damage is nonexistent. His E serves the same purpose - its slow has such a low intensity and duration that its only real purpose is to be a poke / distraction ability. It has no real purpose besides stacking his passive for his Q.
The only reason new Rengar is a diver is because his lacklustre kit forces him to build tanky AD items like titanic hydra.
Old Rengar's W gave him resistances, did real damage (offtank rengar maxing W first against heavy armor tanks in top lane was not uncommon) and most importantly it gave him a heal comparable to Gangplank's W when empowered. Old Rengar was more of a diver than an assassin, and when people came up with the "one shot meta" for him i was disgusted.
It wasnt fun for the player or the victim. He would design his build around one-shotting everything he clicked on and dying in the process - sort of what he has been reworked into.
SzGamer2271 votesRengar Q is not the least satisfying ability in the game. It's just (a lot) less satisfying than the old "gET FUCKING STABBED" Q he used to have. It wouldn't be hard to find an ability that is less fun to use though.
Long ranged snipes with Xin's new spell are going to look fucking cool and feel fucking good.
Frontline Fury1 votesPlease mention one ability less satisfying than Rengar's Q. I'm waiting.
SzGamer2271 votesAlright, are you ready for this
Q
W
E
That's 3 and I didn't even have to look at a second champion lmao
And if you dare say that being a point-and-click shield/peel machine is more exciting than using any damage ability in the game, then you're trying too hard to convince yourself that Janna is a fun and engaging champion.
Frontline Fury1 votesUh... Janna's spells are all infinitely more satisfying than Rengar's Q. Her Q gives you extreme peel / cc power (provided you can use it), her W gives you extremely high movement speed as well as a reliable semi-nuke/extremely heavy long duration slow, and her E is hands down the strongest shield in the game (in terms of utility, not shield health).
SzGamer2272 votes[{quoted}](name=Frontline Fury,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PVcgLvRs,comment-id=000a000000010002,timestamp=2017-09-14T09:58:24.210+0000)
...and her E is hands down the strongest shield in the game (in terms of utility, not shield health).
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YmiNSBXh8jM/maxresdefault.jpg
######See, it's funny because Ivern's shield is called "Triggerseed"
Frontline Fury1 votesSidenote: Its a shame this isnt M&G, or i might actually like you for that pun.
before hehe