Sion Passives, Counter productive

Romans VI XXIII··3 votes·1,986 views

Okay so Sions passives are counter productive. Having him lose % max HP every second makes it his passive counter productive by stacking HP or even just CSing, since he gains Max HP per kill. Here is why.

Once Sion dies he comes back to life, gains 100% LS and alot of AS, okay thats cool. BUT he loses a % of his Max HP every second increasing exponentially. So say for example you died, so you do 100 damage with every attack, and you have 1000 HP. SO with every attack you gain 10% of your Max HP. If you have 2000 HP you gain 5% with every attack, and with 4000 HP 2.5% with every attack. so by stacking health it reduces the total % of HP restored, likewise with increased damage comes increased % restored.

Now since you lose a % of max HP per second this means that as you gain HP or as you build HP items and your AD stays the same you have less time in your passive. Making it counter productive to stack HP, cause with less HP you gain a higher % of HP back per attack, allowing you to stay alive longer.

How do you fix this?

Well don't build HP. Well Okay, I have a passive that gives me infinite HP so im going to gain it any way, and If I don't build HP then once i do die and come back ill be so squishy that any one will be able to kill me again, since I have no form of CC once my passive goes off. So not building HP is not an option, sion is a bruiser and must have it or he will be worthless.

Well build lots of AD. Well okay, but again if I'm building AD then I'm not getting much HP. yea Ill get a massive amount of % HP back, but ill be so squishy that any CC will make me die in an instant.

Find a happy medium? Yea this could work. But I still have infinite scaling HP so as the game goes on I'm gaining less and less % max HP with each hit. Its just counter productive.

Well then why don't we make it a flat rate instead of % max? That would WORK! If we make him lose a flat rate of HP every second it would make stacking HP VERY productive for his passive, allowing him to stay alive longer. and it would not hurt building AD as well cause you still gain alot more HP back with all your LS.

For example if you lose 100 HP every second (increasing with every tick of course, so like 100, 150, 200, 250 ex....) then having a Higher amount of HP would allow you to stay alive longer, and having a higher amount of AD would also work productively since you can gain back alot of the flat amount with every attack.

16 Comments

1011001110007 votes

If the passive's hp loss was a flat rate, it would have to be an insanely high rate. A flat rate would open the door to a ridiculous amount of life time. In the middle of teamfights.

You shouldn't be relying on your passive so much that you want half of your fights in your passive. It's more of a revenge kill passive, so stacking hp/AD for the time you spend alive is still just as good as anything else.

Romans VI XXIII1 votes

It will increase exponentially, and still any form of CC and and champ can just walk away from sion as he has no CC in it and a very poor MS buff.

1011001110001 votes

It will increase exponentially, and still any form of CC and and champ can just walk away from sion as he has no CC in it and a very poor MS buff.

If it increases exponentially, then you're describing exactly what it does now. Now you're in fact asking for no change to his passive hp loss.

Sure, people can run away from you in your passive. In teamfights, that forces people out of position and gives the rest of your team easier kills because you forced their adc to kite you and leave the teamfight.

Romans VI XXIII1 votes

If it increases exponentially, then you're describing exactly what it does now. Now you're in fact asking for no change to his passive hp loss.

Please read again. Sions Current passive loses HP based on PERCENT MAX HP %. A % sign, AND increases exponentially as you survive longer. I would like it to be based on a FLAT AMOUNT, AND increase exponentially from there.

So instead of for example 2% 4% 8% 16% 32% 64% HP....ect. it would be like 100, 150, 250, 400, 600, 850, 1150, 1500 HP.....ect. (numbers are not exact they are just for an example)

This would DRASTICALLY reduce the speed on which an HP stacking Sion would die, instead of being counter productive and increasing the speed at which he dies.

1011001110001 votes

If it increases exponentially, then you're describing exactly what it does now. Now you're in fact asking for no change to his passive hp loss.

Please read again. Sions Current passive loses HP based on PERCENT MAX HP %. A % sign, AND increases exponentially as you survive longer. I would like it to be based on a FLAT AMOUNT, AND increase exponentially from there.

So instead of for example 2% 4% 8% 16% 32% 64% HP....ect. it would be like 100, 150, 250, 400, 600, 850, 1150, 1500 HP.....ect. (numbers are not exact they are just for an example)

This would DRASTICALLY reduce the speed on which an HP stacking Sion would die, instead of being counter productive and increasing the speed at which he dies.

Do we really need people to stack health on Sion just so he can have a thirty second passive? What are we ten? At Level 18, his passive could potentially knock out half of his death timer if you just stack health. They made it %hp strictly so that people couldn't rampage and build tons of health just to cut their timers and zone people obnoxiously with his passive.

Romans VI XXIII1 votes

Thats where balancing will come in. All I'm saying is it is COUNTER PRODUCTIVE as is and needs to change. Making a champion LOSE effectiveness by BUYING items or just CSing is unhealthy. baseing it off max % HP is what is causing this unhealthiness. its as simple as that.

1011001110001 votes

Thats where balancing will come in. All I'm saying is it is COUNTER PRODUCTIVE as is and needs to change. Making a champion LOSE effectiveness by BUYING items or just CSing is unhealthy. baseing it off max % HP is what is causing this unhealthiness. its as simple as that.

It's NOT counter-productive at all. The passive is effectively a separate part of Sion's kit that is entirely fixed to prevent it from being ridiculously broken. There's no way the hp loss in his passive could be balanced in any other way except through %hp loss because it's consistent. Having a fixed number loss leads to a "Broken or shit" scenario where a low fixed hp loss with exponential would be too slow so that the passive can be abused, or too fast so that the passive is FURTHER useless than it is now, and the middle ground is so ridiculously narrow and will entirely rely on whether a person builds Sion with 2 tons of health or 1 ton, and THAT is unhealthy. You're supposed to build tanky to PREVENT yourself from dying, to avoid needing your passive, to provide more utility before you die and have to chase someone down for a potential final kill.

%HP loss is consistent. It provides a safety net where the passive cannot be abused with health stacking, but it can be easily rendered more effective with a slight % change if it indeed is too fast.

Your tank items DO NOT lose value because of your passive. CSing DOES NOT have reduced effectiveness because of his passive. Items and CSing enhances his effectiveness and longevity while alive like they always do, and his passive is an extra push beyond his death.

Kowe The Ewok3 votes

Tbh I dislike any passive that requires you to die, since it basically punishes you for playing well. That's exactly why I always prefered Cassio over Zyra until Riot nerfed her into the ground.

junglerboy164 votes

Except, for sion as a tank/bruiser/initiator, he wants to soak all the damage he can, and dying with a passive like his is not bad play, it is strategic play (Or it would be if they got the health bleed fixed). If they fix it so that you can safely say, "Ok, I can save my team by soaking damage, dying, and then mauling the other team." then it is strategy. As it stands now, the issue is that he cannot make that kind of decision with ANY reliability, which leaves his passive in a place where it is nothing more than a safety net for someone who dies too often, not the playmaking tool it should be.

ceaselessphantom1 votes

That's exactly why I always prefered Cassio over Zyra

Uh what? I am pretty sure it is better to treat Zyra as not having any passive since that thing is next to worthless.

Kowe The Ewok1 votes

Maybe they could add that Sion additionally runs faster the lower his health is. That might make up for the long "respawn" delay.

jsHolmes1 votes

He needs to be able to use all four temporary speed boosts while in passive mode

WutsKraken1 votes

He needs to be able to use all four temporary speed boosts while in passive mode

At the very least remove the damn AS and MS cap on his passive

Seriously, he's said to gain massive AS and MS but there's still a cap

Romans VI XXIII1 votes

yes, this is stupid

Elahrairah51 votes

Because you are supposed to die on some point. It sounds like you want Sion to live forever and lifesteal all his HP back that he loses. Also you should not base your build around your passive. That is silly. Build HP so that you will use your passive less, not do better when you die.

Romans VI XXIII1 votes

The point is its counter productive, by building HP u immediately get less time in you passive. Building items shouldnt cause a skill or passive to lose effectiveness. it should cause it to become more effective.

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