PBE AATROX IS A GUT

53436278DEL1·Feb 23, 2017·4 votes·1,687 views

that ridiculous nerf to his w and that passive rework.... now the base ad he gains from his passive doesn't even go to blood price. since it scales off 75% bonus ad

29 Comments

SirLapseFeb 23, 20174 votes

Aatrox never gained base AD from passive before. He gained base AS and that's the only thing he lost as a continuous buff you could maintain. Aatrox's Blood Price never used base AD either, it was entirely bonus AD. Edited for clarity.

You don't need to effectively pay half your health to get the opponent down to half health anymore. That is not a gut at all, that's lowering Aatrox's values so he isn't overwhelming the enemy.

Aatrox was already capable of winning 1v1 in the lane phase against anything melee, despite his kit chunking himself. You effectively did 320 damage on a level 3 rotation, which if you ran Ignite adds 110 extra damage. You can basically all-in them from ~50% of their health even after damage reductions, with the condition being that you lose 15% of your current health (50 HP if you are at half HP in this case) + 21 health on top of that for the all-in, not including the HP typically spent if you were poking them down and they have no sustain via potion. The costs were a huge deal.

Your Q now deals 98 damage as compared to 84 damage compared to older values and doesn't chunk you, saying you're level 3 and started Doran's Blade with AD marks/Quint (standard for Aatrox). Scales way better too when leaving only 1 point in it.

Your W now can make better trades due to a higher base heal. For tank Aatrox's the % missing HP is huge buff. The damage portion was trading 21 of your health to get 83 of their HP, which effectively is a 62 HP trade-off. The new value is 47 damage under the same conditions presented above, but filling 20% of your Blood Well when normally that thing did NOTHING for your gauge. Later on into the game you can actually leave this thing on and not think "I'm killing myself faster."

Factoring in his E early nerf, the HP cost is pretty similar to before early on but is considerably less as you level up. It only got its damage reduced by like 3 but has better scaling and the slow is more consistent.

Ultimate is unchanged so you'll still have a 200 magic damage burst with a gigantic AS boost and Blood Well filler.

How is this a nerf exactly? Because you see numbers go down? Only thing I acknowledge is that they killed jungle Aatrox for no apparent reason since the passive only works vs. champions and he lost his super sustain.

Elite4RunnerFeb 23, 20171 votes

... but he does gain base AD from his new passive...

Meep ManFeb 23, 20171 votes

He knows that, he is saying the OLD passive didn't give base AD.

SirLapseFeb 23, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chicken Dynasty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PTebPzhu,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-02-23T15:18:17.660+0000)

He knows that, he is saying the OLD passive didn't give base AD.

I don't think it's implied from just the opening post even if you'd like to think that. He noted that "now the base AD" and then followed up with "since it scales off of bonus AD." Connect it and there you go, he is basically saying [from that specific post] that the base AD doesn't help his Blood Price when it never did.

It's not generally seen as nice to call people out on mistakes like this but you'd have to be turning a blind eye to not note that grammatically that is what he is declaring.

When you complain about a nerf also, you'd want to note the things that were actually nerfed, no? The continuous base AS was a real nerf and as I said already stops Aatrox from jungling since it only occurs vs. champions. The post itself isn't really noting where the real nerf happened.

SalronFeb 23, 20171 votes

http://puu.sh/ugeMo/2619cb4a3e.png http://i.imgur.com/QASOJat.gif[/img] Hope you feel smart now

SirLapseFeb 23, 20174 votes

{quoted}

http://puu.sh/ugeMo/2619cb4a3e.png http://i.imgur.com/QASOJat.gif[/img] Hope you feel smart now

He never got any base AD from the original passive to begin with. The original W never scaled off of total AD. Problem?

I THINK NOT! Lmao people these days trying to make others look bad.

Elite4RunnerFeb 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

people these days trying to make others look bad.

Which is exactly what you did.

Own up to it.

SirLapseFeb 23, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Which is exactly what you did.

Own up to it.

I'm sure when you made the same mistake too you probably felt offended. It's not my problem. I'd be laughing if I made the same mistake as him since I'm pretty happy with my life. There's also a difference from bullying or anything of bad intentions compared to noting a mistake and saying how ridiculous it is.

Elite4RunnerFeb 23, 20172 votes

What are you talking about?

They're not mistaken, you are.

His new passive gives him bonus AD.

SirLapseFeb 23, 20172 votes

{quoted}

What are you talking about?

They're not mistaken, you are.

His new passive gives him bonus AD.

"now the base ad he gains from his passive doesn't even go to blood price"

I literally inferred from this point that the OP is mentioning base AD as though it went into Aatrox's W in the first place, because he used the word "now" when it never did. If he hadn't used that word then I wouldn't have made the conclusion. Blood Price has always scaled from 100% bonus AD.

Not to mention the current Aatrox does not gain base AD from his passive currently and only just got that on the PBE. He actually loses the base AS from the passive that you kept over time and was probably the only significant thing to note as a potential nerf. This post was pretty non-productive.

I'm just going to edit back to clarify at this point since it could be easily misunderstood.

DarkinPrimeFeb 23, 20171 votes

Its a nerf because despite all of the changes, whenever anyone used to complain about him being too squishy, the argument was, "well, his sustain is his tankiness"

Even if you build tons of HP, you won't be lifestealing like crazy the way he could under 50% with masteries and spirit visage to boost. But the time you have lost enough health for the 5% of missing health to matter, you will be low enough to be bursted down before you can lifesteal it back, which is unlikely anwyays since you built tank and have not a lot of attack speed (and only 25% from the new BOTRK).

So they gutted his ability to sustain on an insane level (which was always easily shut down by hard CC and attack speed reduction).

In replacement....they gave him nothing. Unlike all the other fighters and top laners, Aatrox has no shields, blocks, parries, built in resistances or bonus tenacity. He is the squishiest fighter now, and won't come close to the damage output of other top laners.

This is a nerf. And a huge one at that.

53436278DEL1Feb 23, 20171 votes

the heal is not higher unless you go tank. btw aatrox has lowest base hp in the game yet they haven't fixed his base stats. which was one of the problems of his kit

dimiondoFeb 24, 20171 votes

Lol the heal isn't even higher even if you go tank, like 150 bonus ad on the old passive beats 3000 health with the new passive

Elite4RunnerFeb 23, 20171 votes

Have you played him on the PBE?

53436278DEL1Feb 23, 20171 votes

yes

LostFr0stFeb 23, 20171 votes

How many games and vs what matchups. The numbers themselves feel like a buff but how you play him is shifted, as has his core build.

dimiondoFeb 24, 20171 votes

Its a nerf because they put all his attack speed into a 4 second passive that the enemy can just disengage, the heal is also worse at all stages of the game bar very early game

LostFr0stFeb 24, 20171 votes

That's because they changed the health costs so they removed some of the heal. I really wish they gave some cdr incentives for lvls on Q and E though. Maybe they thought it'd make proccing his passive too easy... idk? He only needs to hit stuff to extend the buff's duration, so I guess we need to walk up now and when they run use E-->Q? I'm trying to figure it out...

SirLapseFeb 24, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Its a nerf because they put all his attack speed into a 4 second passive that the enemy can just disengage, the heal is also worse at all stages of the game bar very early game

Bro there's something called an edit button. Use it.

When you're starting fights both in lane and skirmishes and teamfights, you will either walk up to them (which is not viable at this current time), Flash or Q. When you do a Q>E play or E>Q (the better of the two), you are starting the fight at 85% health. It does not matter if the old heal was better later on in the game, all the enemy has to do is ignite you and there's 15% less HP they need to burn through. This is not including if you dare use MORE abilities because you likely haven't bursted them.

The HP cost removal again was HUGE. Ignoring that pretty much states you aren't aware of how Aatrox actually functions.

To do some simple math:

Let's say I'm level 3 and I'm not Bronze so I'm actually going to attempt to last hit instead of look for a fight with the enemy every 2 CS.

Doran's Blade start: 80 extra health to my base which is 663. That's 743 total.

I've likely used 2-4 E's to poke the enemy or last hit from a safe distance because most Aatrox's start with E. That's 10-20% current HP which until I hit nearly half my health is always going to be above 15 HP per trade. Your trades are literally garbage due to this until you get to half health. That's when you abuse the sustain on W at lv2 and have hit half health. Now you'll be poking them for 15 HP per and healing a little above 60 health. You'll always be making back your costs if you are below 50% health. Any time you use Q above 50%, you'll be in deficit. This pattern is very noticeable, and it basically says you can't miss your abilities or you slowly go in the red.

Trying to heal off the enemy's harass along with your own costs is extremely difficult. Since they'd only need to deal above 45 damage after your E.

The attack speed thing only matters for his jungle. You will not typically be relying on his attack speed until you are actually fighting, which takes only 5 spellcasts. This is only under the condition that you do not suck at last hitting and actually know the champion you're playing.

The base heal being higher means it's multiplied and applied way before you ever get to the point of 50% health. Many Aatrox builds try to build HP in some form so they don't get absolutely melted, full AD is just not functional on melees unless you're going to splitpush all game or have a broken mechanic like Tryndamere to not die when it matters. Going to put up some math for a realistic situation in a skirmish type setting based on the meta later.

Solarus17Feb 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

How many games and vs what matchups. The numbers themselves feel like a buff but how you play him is shifted, as has his core build.

I have 1 million mastery points with aatrox 3k ranked games diamond 4 and the 3rd best aatorx i nna these are nerfs the passive is an extreme nerf you dont have the att speed unless you build up the blood rage nor do u get the passive, which is HUGE, the pros are negligible in comparison to this hes probably slightly weaker, furthermore the e is nor physical dmg you would max the e first providing you with 2 sources of dmg now your fucked

FurriesAreHotFeb 23, 20171 votes

Seems like a straight buff to me.

53436278DEL1Feb 23, 20171 votes

it is NOT a buff. its a nerf.atleast to ad aatrox

Meep ManFeb 23, 20171 votes

I disagree. His numbers were buffed across the board except for his W, but this was because it's health cost was removed.

53436278DEL1Feb 23, 20171 votes

its a nerf...... the only buff was to Q and to tank aatrox .. meanwhile his problems haven't been addressed his only gap closer is only a 12 second cooldown at max rank... and his W was GUTTED

DarkinPrimeFeb 23, 20171 votes

Exactly. Its like people can't read or jump on these boards to post about a champion that know nothing about.

53436278DEL1Feb 23, 20171 votes

i know alot about aatrox sir been maining him for the past 3 seasons

DarkinPrimeFeb 23, 20171 votes

Yes me too. Did you think I was attacking you?

dimiondoFeb 24, 20171 votes

Its not a buff because they gated his attack speed behind his new passive that only lasts for 4 seconds when not fighting a champ. Aatrox has atrocious attack speed normally because they gutted it and put it into his passive. So he lost a TON of attack speed for very little benefit. Q buff is meh same damage and your only going to use it on stun anyway. E is still meh because the projectile speed is so slow. Everything else bar changed is a nerf.

SirLapseFeb 24, 20171 votes

The math I presented not only shows that you can refund your E cost with your W now (which was actually difficult to do before), but you do not make any trade-offs in HP during lane. That is a large amount of HP numbers that made Aatrox squishier in lane that you are blatantly ignoring. At lv1 when you're taking Q, you're literally losing 60 HP to deal similar damage to it. When you start a fight with Q, you are at 90% HP which makes building tank on him horrible.

The entire way his lane functioned was that you chunked yourself but were trying to get your opponent down to your HP range as well in order to abuse your heal's strength. Because the base heal was low you couldn't really focus on sustaining your own costs, and they not only removed most of his costs but his heal surpasses the cost of his E at level 1. A large portion of why I could never Q in lane was that I'd lose over 30 health and might not even hit the enemey.

After 3 E's, you only need one Blood Price and one Q in order to gain an attack speed boost and gain 16 base AD, considering you're level 3. That is a gigantic spike from before since you land two auto's if you land one Q, not just the Blood Price. That's +32 damage and easily covers for the supposed W nerf when the Q damage up already makes up for the HP trade-off.

Present some numbers on how Aatrox was trading before vs. now if you want to convince people of anything, because right now your statements are far from legitimate. Playing the champion doesn't necessarily mean you know all the math behind them, I got to Silver 2 62 LP with Kha'Zix back in the day with at least a 7 win streak on normals without knowing literally anything about Kha'Zix's numbers other than his heal.

I will also note, statistically Aatrox scales better into the game as he builds his items and follows the pattern of "weak early, strong late." They are not trying to make him "good" or "viable." The goal of the change is to make him usable, which this certainly is.