Reguarding Aatrox @meddler lets discuss

53436278DEL1·Sep 16, 2015·34 votes·31,635 views

as of right now aatrox is on the weaker side of champ simply due to the fact his passive draws to much potential power from this rest of his kit( lol trynd fiora anivia) but he really isn't the stickiest of champs without botrk / randuins nor does he have as much damage as all the other champs under the same classifications fighter / tank or necessarily scale as well either right now aatrox has a few problems such as

to dependent on snowballing, gains almost no power from farming like many other fighters / tanks where has he becomes an unstoppable monster if he gets ahead in items but if he doesn't or the opponents catch up he is practically useless champ.
to dependent on items which isn't necessarily a bad thing yes the base damages on his E and Q are high but i'm more interested in scaling and utility then base damages
too susceptible to burst ,CC and AOE Due to squishy nature ( i call him the jello swordsman)
he doesn't exactly get rewarded for being up close and personal
passive heals is flat health and not max .. and he doesn't even get a benefit from spawning in the middle of the team.w these 3 things may be overlooked at first glance when looking at aatrox but they draw out a deeper problem with aatrox due to inherent nature of his kit. he can be toxic if buffed and i agree i have played many aatrox games where i got out of hand and simply destroyed everything in sight but if he isn't ahead at all even on equal footing he still holds chances to lose while not making up for being weak behind.

in order to fix aatrox we need to take away some of his " get ahead and stomp everything power" and look at him in the long run champs with late game prowess.

maybe if you took away some of his base damages and replaced it mediocre base damages that scaled with total ad rather then bonus ? like sions Q is really strong it has a charge maybe aatrox Q can be treated the same way for a long range engage ?

i'm not saying to give aatrox % damage HP damage i'm saying we need to look at him and make him stand out from the ordinary i will make another post with ideas for aatrox changes

153 Comments

RiotMeddlerSep 17, 201538 votes

I'm with you that Aatrox has some issues, and that means he sometimes doesn't feel very satisfying to play, I don't personally feel it's because he's weak though. Statistically he does ok, nothing special, but pretty middle of the pack. I actually feel you hit the nail on the head with one of your other comments "need to look at him and make him stand out from the ordinary". That's Aatrox's big gameplay issue - he doesn't have a distinct enough gameplay identity, so the only major gameplay reason to pick him is if he's the strongest option in his class (diving fighters). Other divers have more unique things they bring to a team, so there's reason to pick them even if they're not numerically the strongest (Jarvan has strong synergies with Gnar and Vayne, Nocturne can join a fight from long range, Vi offers almost guaranteed access to and CC on a priority target etc). Since Aatrox doesn't have something that distinct however he instead has to compete purely on more general grounds (damage, tankiness/sustain primarily). To feel good he'd therefore need to be noticeably overpowered.

The solution, following that logic, then is to find something special Aatrox can offer and put a significant part of his power budget there. We don't have work on Aatrox currently prioritized, but have kicked around some ideas for ways to do that whenever opportunity to work on him permits. There's one direction in particular I personally feel's got a lot of potential (and some noticeable risks), before I get into details about that though I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on what we could do to Aatrox to give him a unique space in the game.

lolipopevelynnSep 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I'm with you that Aatrox has some issues, and that means he sometimes doesn't feel very satisfying to play, I don't personally feel it's because he's weak though. Statistically he does ok, nothing special, but pretty middle of the pack. I actually feel you hit the nail on the head with one of your other comments "need to look at him and make him stand out from the ordinary". That's Aatrox's big gameplay issue - he doesn't have a distinct enough gameplay identity, so the only major gameplay reason to pick him is if he's the strongest option in his class (diving fighters). Other divers have more unique things they bring to a team, so there's reason to pick them even if they're not numerically the strongest (Jarvan has strong synergies with Gnar and Vayne, Nocturne can join a fight from long range, Vi offers almost guaranteed access to and CC on a priority target etc). Since Aatrox doesn't have something that distinct however he instead has to compete purely on more general grounds (damage, tankiness/sustain primarily). To feel good he'd therefore need to be noticeably overpowered.

The solution, following that logic, then is to find something special Aatrox can offer and put a significant part of his power budget there. We don't have work on Aatrox currently prioritized, but have kicked around some ideas for ways to do that whenever opportunity to work on him permits. There's one direction in particular I personally feel's got a lot of potential (and some noticeable risks), before I get into details about that though I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on what we could do to Aatrox to give him a unique space in the game.

lets start by reverting some of his old nerfs... the atk speed nerf from his blood well really hurt him. 55% is reasonable considering the atkspeed steroids you later added to champions in the form of Jinx

Fathappy3Sep 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

lets start by reverting some of his old nerfs... the atk speed nerf from his blood well really hurt him. 55% is reasonable considering the atkspeed steroids you later added to champions in the form of {{champion:222} The nerf was only to his early game and it buffed his lategame. It was insane for him to have a almost permanent 50% AS buff at level 1 so they tuned it way down early game and gave him a 5% buff lategame

ShénzhìOct 25, 20151 votes

This could be changed from his [P]assive to his [W].

[W] each hit stacks an Atk Speed buff. (take from Jax's old kit) [W] each level-up allows more stacks. (late game) [P] changed completely?

Jax updated with Aatrox at same time? What if Jax became true Grandmaster at Arms who can switch weapons? Jax's kit is old as f and no-one knows wtf he is. A lamp-post alien? fk that. Human pls.

Stars ShaperSep 17, 20152 votes

If you want to keep the "drain fighter" theme you could do 2 things:

Lower his HP costs and check if his dive needs some invulnerability window from cc and/or damage.
Change his passive refill from skill used to a constant drain of close enemies which keeps active even during the ress giving him more means to stay in the fight and making his resurrection not just a delayed death.

Numbers aren't my strong point but I see this as a thematic, cool, peculiar and balanceable way to give Aatrox some pepper.

I Kiss Old GodsSep 17, 20157 votes

{quoted}

I'm with you that Aatrox has some issues, and that means he sometimes doesn't feel very satisfying to play, I don't personally feel it's because he's weak though. Statistically he does ok, nothing special, but pretty middle of the pack. I actually feel you hit the nail on the head with one of your other comments "need to look at him and make him stand out from the ordinary". That's Aatrox's big gameplay issue - he doesn't have a distinct enough gameplay identity, so the only major gameplay reason to pick him is if he's the strongest option in his class (diving fighters). Other divers have more unique things they bring to a team, so there's reason to pick them even if they're not numerically the strongest (Jarvan has strong synergies with Gnar and Vayne, Nocturne can join a fight from long range, Vi offers almost guaranteed access to and CC on a priority target etc). Since Aatrox doesn't have something that distinct however he instead has to compete purely on more general grounds (damage, tankiness/sustain primarily). To feel good he'd therefore need to be noticeably overpowered.

The solution, following that logic, then is to find something special Aatrox can offer and put a significant part of his power budget there. We don't have work on Aatrox currently prioritized, but have kicked around some ideas for ways to do that whenever opportunity to work on him permits. There's one direction in particular I personally feel's got a lot of potential (and some noticeable risks), before I get into details about that though I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on what we could do to Aatrox to give him a unique space in the game.

Perhaps we can take a look at his lore and flavor: He is some sort of immortal being who inspires violence in mortals, and has perpetuated war through the ages in Valoran.

If you want to go deep into exploring an interesting and new mechanic, it would be interesting to see some sort of buff he could give to himself (or his teammates, if the numbers permitted) that scaled off of how much health has been lost from the champions around him in a period of time, friend or foe. Wouldn't it fit right along with his identity to relish in bloodshed around him, sort of basking in it? This way he has a niche among diving fighters: Leaping into the fray and trying to either turn around a fight for his team or snowball it further in his favor.

Comrade NapoleonSep 17, 20155 votes

I think he should be allowed to be on the strong side number wise due to the amount of counter play he has, personally as an ADC with low mobility id be far more scared from a fed xin than an aatrox, i have a lot of time to react to his Q (comparing it to xin's dash) and even if he got to me he doesn't have a lot of sticking power and a flash usually is enough to escape him (again comparing to xin's knockups) so my point is if he was able to get to his target he must be rewarded for that.

PokeprofSep 17, 201510 votes

My thoughts on here would be this:

Go hyper charge on his 'Drain tank' idea. Pull out a lot of his damage, but making hard to kill thanks to him just sucking the life out of his foes. Not only does this go along with the of him being Tryndamere's Creator, but also makes him a bit distinctly different then most other champions in the game, since we've got no real champion that survives mostly by fighting others. The closest we've got to him in that respect would be Trundle, and the big old Ice Troll is more defensive in nature where as Aatrox would be a great deal more offensive tank by his initiation.

terkmcSep 17, 20157 votes

Swain Vladimir Olaf Warwick Edit: Mordekaiser Darius Fiora Hecarim

PokeprofSep 18, 20153 votes

None of those heroes are anything close to a drain tank, dude. Swain is all about dots, Vlad has nothing in the way of CC to allow him to be a tank, Olaf's a beserker designed to ignore everyone and go for the squishies, Warwick is more designed to be a chasing lockdown assassin, Morde is a tanky ADC/Mage who's all about being the 'immovable object', Darius only just RECENTLY got a heal on his Q and that was designed to help him live in fights he'd otherwise die in, Fiora's all about damage and just gets heals out of it, and Hecarim is about mass control and running down his foes from a heavy distance. NONE of them are all about the taking of life from your enemies and working them into themselves ontop of being nigh impossible to kill, which is what Aatrox is originally idea is.

terkmcSep 18, 20153 votes

Take Swain heal away and you'll see how worthless he becomes. Swain gameplay revolves around staying alive using his ult to output dps. dot? Malz and Brand does his shit better and better aoe and better range. Swain power revolves around his massive survival through ult drain tank
Vlad not a drain tank? A drain tank is not about the cc aspect of tanking, but about the tankiness of tanking through draining enemy hp and healing his. Vlad is all about that Q/spell vamp
Warwick. 3 of his abilities is has healing component. 3. Outside of that he has no natural defense. Are you really going to say Warwick isnt a drain tank?
Take away Darius heal right now and see how shitty he becomes. He has no natural defense and the only reason he lives long enough to get those 5 stack and survive in teamfight is through his Q hitting enemy champion and healing him
Same for Hecarim. No natural defense, the only reason he is super tanky and hyper scale is his W, which surprise, take the damage deal to the opponent to heal himself. And also Hecarim isnt about mass control, his R, malph does it better and his only other control option is a small knock back on a very high cd E. Hecarim is about a hyper scailing horse that thrives in the middle of battle churning out Q and Sheen proc constantly and living through W healing. Old Morde was very much drain tank. If you cant interupt his shield+spell vamp he was never going to die

PokeprofSep 18, 20153 votes

A tank in League is a champion who is durable, capable of heavy cc, and scales best with Cooldown reductions/health. Let's take a look at the characters you listed.

Swain: Heavy CC, but scales better with AP then anything else. Even the tankiest of the Swains are squishy compared to some other natural tanking heroes. Healing as a major focus of his kit does not a drain tank make.

Vlad: No CC outside of his Pool, which is more of a defensive ability then anything else. Scales, again, with AP instead of anything else. He works heavily in draining life, but it fits him more as what he is, a freaking VAMPIRE!

Warwick: Closest thing that we've got to a drain tank currently, and when he STILL goes assassin, then there's soemthing wrong here. Besides, if you're legitimately saying that Warwick is a good example of a Drain tank champion, you need to go see someone about that.

Darius/Morde: A healing ability DOES NOT A TANK MAKE! Just because someone has a healing ability does not make them a tank based hero set up to drain the life from their foes and survive a long time in battle. Darius and Morde are BOTH bruisers who are designed with their current healing in mind so they can have more counter play, considering before hand they were OP as heck because their set ups made them either WIN or LOSE.

Hecarim: The Pony IS about control, cuz the entire Idea is for him to either set up a fight or to farm the jungle like no bloody tomorrow. He's also more about damage then being a tank because, as you pointed out, he's got a great deal more scaling. Which, as was pointed out before, a tank doesn't have.

Just because a champion has a heal doesn't make them a DRAIN TANK. The Idea of a drain tank in the game as it currently stands is best fulfilled by TRUNDLE. He steals away the health of his enemies, as WELL as their stats, and becomes nigh unkillable because of it. Trundle is also a much more DEFENSIVE creature then Aatrox, which is why I suggested for Aatrox to be similar in this respect, since Aatrox's kit by it's very nature is more offensive. And even then, Trundle fits far better as a buriser then a tank because Trundle doesn't have the CC to protect others, where as Aatrox DOES.

terkmcSep 18, 20153 votes

The act of "drain-tank" and a tank are very different concept

PokeprofSep 18, 20152 votes

And you've just proven that you won't listen to anything but your own ridiculous notions. You ignore evidence and out right proof to the otherwise, and as such I'm done with this conversation.

You lose. Good Day, Sir.

terkmcSep 18, 20153 votes

First, to arbitrarily announce yourself the winner is ridiculous in and by of itself Second, "drain-tank" comes from the WoW tactic of using Drain Life on your target to keep you alive while damaging the target, no mention for cc. The tank portion of the phrase simply refer to the ability to take hit Third. A "drain-tank" of your definition is impossible. For a drain tank to work, his damage output must be substantial to heal off of his damage alone. For a tank to work he must he hard to kill, scale with defense and provide utility and cc. So a drain tank of your definition is some who build defense, is very durable while outputting substantial damage because he scale with defense and cdr and having good cc and utility, while his healing keeps him alive in tandem with his resistence. So a do-everything champion. This is only allowed to be mediocre, which is the state Aatrox is in, since if its strong its very very overwhelming because it's too much strength with very little drawback

RishiyaSep 19, 20153 votes

Wow, you REALLY don't listen much do you?

Drain tanks, as YOU are defining, aren't even tanks in League. What you're talking about is FIDDLESTICKS of all champions and he ain't no tank. And as the other guy pointed out, League ISN'T World of Warcraft. Tanks in League are DIFFERENT then tanks in WoW. In League, Tanks are characters who are beefy as heck who can help their allies out with their cc and tend to be on the lower end of the damage spectrum.

And you're also wrong on how a drain tank could work for Aatrox anyway. You'd have to give him some ridiculous amount of healing on his attacks to justify it, but it's doable especially if you make him hit about as strong as a wet blanket. The damage potential of a champion doesn't matter if their abilities are so strong that it doesn't matter.

As it is, I don't even think the drain tank idea even works for Aatrox anyway (As the other guy pointed out, Trundle does it so much better it isn't funny) and all your doing by arguing with him is just showing how little ya know of this game.

BeuhlakorSep 17, 201514 votes

\\\ Wall of text incoming //////

Hi Meddler and thank you for being here with us :)

I know I may sound agressive but please, Meddler, believe me that I'm not. I just love Aatrox art-wise (especially his late Sea Hunter skin which is AWESOME) and I'm just very sad about the state in which Aatrox is right now and I'm a bit passionate about it ^^.

When Aatrox was released, I used to play him a lot. I loved his art and I used to found his gameplay fun. But right now, even if he is on the weak side, I simply find him BORING and at the same time incredibly toxic.

What I would like for him is a rework. Not as big as Sion or Poppy ofc, but definitely something as big as the Juggernauts (and more like Mordekaiser rather than Garen).

Let me explain.

**1) a) Build diversity : **

Aatrox has almost no build options at all. Black Cleaver is awful on him since he doesn't benefit at all from CDR and has no AOE physical damages at all except his Q (his E feels bad outside of laning phase and his Q costs too much health by far), Titanic Hydra is also awful on him (he either needs raw AD or AS and his base health is very low therefore Titanic Hydra is bad on him) etc. Trinity is out of question for him because he only has 2 abilities with pretty long CDs, Sterak is also out of the question for him because his base AD is not high (so no combo Trinity / Sterak etc).

Every time I play him (toplane mostly) I do the same build again and again : if I need raw AD I go Ravenous Hydra or chasing power / tank busting power I go BOTRK then I go full tank (almost always Randuin / Spirit Visage because of their passives and actives) and as a last item, GA. Against a balanced ennemy team with AP and AD, this is the same build I HAVE to play.

This is simply BORING. I have no problem with having a couple of items being considered "core". But Aatrox has no "core" items. He either has items that work with his kit or awful items that absolutely do not work with his kit. On Irelia, Renekton, Gnar, Darius, Jax etc I have a couple of core items but I also have OPTIONS depending on how the game is going on and the ennemy comp.

Also, you changed how Sion's passive health decays in order to not punish him for building tanky. But at the same time, Aatrox is punished HARD for building any health item at all. A simple Q + E combo costs him 15% of his current health.

b) Poor scaling, unhealthy, boring and "makes no sense" kit (I'm sorry Meddler but I really think that he does it all :( ) :

His passive is not good at all except in very early game. Yes, you can dive an ennemy at lvl 3 with it. Yes you can prevent a dive at lvl 3 with it. But outside of those situations it is useless. During those 3 seconds of wait, the ennemy can flee or wait for its CDs to come back to kill you right after you revived. You also have no damages or sustain at all when you come back to life because you lose all your bonus AS, leaving you unable to either deal damages or sustain. His passive feels "meh" because of the loss of the bonus AS. I'd rather have you get rid of the bonus AS and give him better base AS and AS growth.

His E is absolutely insane in laning phase. It gives him pushing power, easy harass and hybrid damages and a form a burst when you ready his 3rd AA and combine it with his E. But outside of laning phase, this ability FEELS very underwhelming. Scaling is awful and even art-wise it feels awful (we know that his sword can expand so why Aatrox is shooting some weird energy to the ennemy when he could expand it ? Imo it would be a lot cooler).

His Q feels awful. I find it very cool animation-wise but :

awful scaling.
awfully long CD and since CDR is bad on Aatrox well ...
too easy to interrupt (Trundle's pillar or even Anivia's wall can stop it !!!!).
costs by FAR too much health.

His W is at the same time super weak and potentially very toxic. Aatrox is the only champion in the game who has to chose between dealing damages and healing. This is a necessity since his sustain is so strong but at the same time, it makes him a weird champion to play. If you are behind you will never use your W to deal damages. If you are ahead you will ALSO never use your W to deal damages. I had a couple of games where I was incredibly fed and you know what I did on Aatrox ?

I rushed huge, raw AD items (Hydra, BT and so on) and used my AS bonus from my passive and my ulti to destroy the ennemy team while healing myself for AN ABSURD amount of health thanks to the quite good AD ratio on Aatrox's W. You don't need to deal damages with his W when you have at 20 minutes 200+ AD and 1.5 AS when you use ulti. But healing every 3 AA for 150+ (with the lifesteal) and almost 400 when under 50% HP ? Yes pls. I was unkillable. Literally.

But even when I'm not hard fed with Aatrox he feels simply too oppressive. He harasses you A LOT with a ranged ability dealing magic damages while being a heavy AD focused champion while healing himself with his W (making, in lane, the health cost on his E meaningless).

And at the same time, his kit makes no sense at all. He is supposed to be a sustained damage dealing champ but until lategame, he has an excellent burst with a 3rd AA + E + ulti combo. And his base health is SO LOW that you DON'T want to do extended trades with Aatrox in early and midgame ???

2) How to fix all of that ? By reworking him :

a) Make his W an active ability that deals damages AND heal him but gate it by a CD (10+ imo). Each time Aatrox deals physical damages, he applys a debuff on the ennemy (same as Kalista, but no infinite stacking, something small, like 5 or 6 stacks) and when he press W, he deals physical damages and heal himself for a FLAT amount depending on the number of stacks each ennemy had and how much health Aatrox is missing (healing is reduced on monsters and minions and no AD ratio on the heal). It would emphasize the "sustained damage dealing champion" part while at the same time giving him much more counterplay even if he starts snowballing like crazy. Also, get rid of the MS slow on his E and put it in his W (the more the stacks he has on an ennemy, the bigger the slow is).

b) Get rid of his bonus AS on his passive and give him better base AS and AS growth (if you are scared of him being too strong in early game, just nerf his base AS and buff even more his AS growth) even if overall it would be a nerf, but at least he would always have a good AS even after reviving.

c) Makes his E an ability that modifies next AA (like Renekton's W etc) that has less base PHYSICAL damages than current E, but can apply Blood Price and On-Hit effect in combination (think Lucian's Piercing Light, for the sake of balance, Sheen proc and On-Hit effects are only applied to the first ennemy struck). Less base damages, but better reward if you can land it properly with Blood Price. Also it would prevent him from harassing you in lane like crazy without any form a counterplay.

d) Keep his current W damage passive (Blood Price) but nerf its base damages and AD ratio. Put this passive ability on his E. You want heal and sustained damages ? Max W. You want to harass / push ? Max E and use it in combination with Blood Price.

e) Nerf heavily his ultimate damages (or event get rid of the damages part). Now, it increases his AS (unchanged) and makes his AA deal 50% AOE damages to ennemies surrounding the target. When combined with a Hydra item, the damages are increased to 75% (does not stack multiple times). The increased range during his ultimate also increases his E range.

f) Buff his base health and change his health costs accordingly since has no more permanent sustain.

3) Consequences :

a) Better build options => Since he has now a 3rd active ability and new E that modifies next AA, Trinity is now a viable option for him and therefore, Sterak too (Titanic Hydra too btw). BC is also now a viable option because his R will give him AOE physical damages and combined with his W, he can apply stacks to multiple ennemies if they are near each other. BOTRK is still a good option, this build is not dead, but AS isn't anymore the "best option 99% of the time". CDR is also now a viable option for him (and not just "Take a Spirit Visage for the awesome passive even if you don't care about the CDR").

b) Less oppressive in lane and more counterplay => no more hybrid damages, no more infinite harass in lane and no more permanent sustain. He has now clear moments of strength and weakness. And no more "sustained damage dealing champion that prefers to burst in early and midgame because his base health is awful and he has to choose between healing and dealing damages".

c) Better kit with synergy => his ultimate synergizes with everything : by dealing AOE damages, he applies stacks of his W to multiple ennemies then press W for extra-damages and extra-healing and slowing the ennemies. His E synergizes with his ultimate and his W (AA timer reset to apply another stack quickly) etc.

d) Thematically, it fits perfectly => Aatrox is still a champion with sustain (core identity) with a "Blood Theme" but now he THRIVES when is in the middle of a big bad teamfight. With his ultimate he applies his W quickly to the ennemy frontline (or backline if he can reach them) and the more ennemies he fights, the bigger his heal will be before unleashing a wave of energy with his E that is increased by the blood of the ennemies he has taken (new E + Blood Price combo). Think of Aatrox as a big bad Darkin who fights multiple ennemies at the same time, cutting them with his sword then stealing his ennemies' blood from their wounds in order to heal him up and fuel up his E and Q.

Photos of GhostsOct 26, 20151 votes

I had a suggestion for a quicker fix that'd put him in line with most other melee carries: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/bwAOjA6w-what-if-aatroxs-ult-turned-incoming-cc-into-dots

53436278DEL1Sep 17, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I'm with you that Aatrox has some issues, and that means he sometimes doesn't feel very satisfying to play, I don't personally feel it's because he's weak though. Statistically he does ok, nothing special, but pretty middle of the pack. I actually feel you hit the nail on the head with one of your other comments "need to look at him and make him stand out from the ordinary". That's Aatrox's big gameplay issue - he doesn't have a distinct enough gameplay identity, so the only major gameplay reason to pick him is if he's the strongest option in his class (diving fighters). Other divers have more unique things they bring to a team, so there's reason to pick them even if they're not numerically the strongest (Jarvan has strong synergies with Gnar and Vayne, Nocturne can join a fight from long range, Vi offers almost guaranteed access to and CC on a priority target etc). Since Aatrox doesn't have something that distinct however he instead has to compete purely on more general grounds (damage, tankiness/sustain primarily). To feel good he'd therefore need to be noticeably overpowered.

The solution, following that logic, then is to find something special Aatrox can offer and put a significant part of his power budget there. We don't have work on Aatrox currently prioritized, but have kicked around some ideas for ways to do that whenever opportunity to work on him permits. There's one direction in particular I personally feel's got a lot of potential (and some noticeable risks), before I get into details about that though I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on what we could do to Aatrox to give him a unique space in the game.

thank you for responding meddler: :) i have an idea just for the thematic relation to his kit. aatrox is my favorite champ to look at but his kit besides q and w are quite boring when i first saw aatrox and reading his lore i thought of him really tossing enemies with his blades and flying through legions of enemies and getting stronger for each enemy slain. thats what i think would make aatrox a little more interesting to play

if aatrox can throw people with his sword after he lunges at them. also is he could use his Q multiple times in a team fight lower the damage and make it purely for team fight utitliy maybe if he hits in the area for 3 people the cool down resets for two seconds and make it charge in damage similar as mordekaiser Q this would : enourage aatrox players for being up close and personal and actually engaging with his Q and maybe make it so that he can't get interrupted which is one of his major problems using his q

also his passive gets the burial dream team around him while they don't get punished for waiting unlike zac and anivia they have to decide to waste time to kill them before they respawn thinking making aatrox shield himself with his wings during his passive then when he revives he does an AOE knockback similar to jannas ult while not healing team mates and is just for himself. although i dont actually like the passive myself

lastly his E and ult : his E is good in lane and has good damage but i think it should be swapped with some late game power that starts to shape aatrox's identity if he could instead poke from long range he can instead stab with his sword and snare or throw the opponent. make it scale with ad,on hits and cool down reduction.

his ult i think the damage should be removed and that it should be available as a toggle or if not let it when he activates it he heals based on missing health and gets bonus life steal for him and his team ( old sion motivated)

ShénzhìSep 17, 20151 votes

#Aatrox: Effects & Animations Update (with some gameplay changes kept within theme)

Suggestions to make Aatrox outstanding backed by an identity and background update (one of many), and kept within theme. This continued into gameplay suggestions:

##Aatrox initiates, emboldens and his blade encourages teammate to keep fighting.

All about the Blade: Instead of Blood Well revive, Aatrox drops Darkin Blade for a teammate to use (buff). Depending that teammate's success with Aatrox's Darkin Blade buff, Aatrox's death timer reduces. (compensates removing Blood Well revive). When buff ends, the Darkin Blade drops from ally and dissolves.
The unlikely Juggernaut: Thorough suggestion to change him into a 'thin juggernaut'. Carefully kept within learned methods of gameplay to assure Aatrox mains. Converts Life-Steal & Spell Vamp. into one unit named 'Blood Lament' duct through some or all of his abilities.
What were Darkin?: Idea suggests Darkin weapons were tools among demon army formations in ancient times (imagine a Trebuchet poking out of a military formation). That ancient war ended (Kayle's background) but The Darkin Blade persisted and developed inklings of conscious (facial expression to Trynd). So he's a demonic weapon and not a being, and so his murmuring could be expanded upon. He may not speak dialogue: he's a thing. In fiction, characters may still fail to understand Aatrox. This is enlightenment for readers (not for characters).

linkblade91Sep 17, 20154 votes

{quoted}

All about the Blade: Instead of Blood Well revive, Aatrox drops Darkin Blade for a teammate to use (buff). Depending that teammate's success with Aatrox's Darkin Blade buff, Aatrox's death timer reduces. (compensates removing Blood Well revive). When buff ends, the Darkin Blade drops from ally and dissolves.

I love this. Even if it was never used on Aatrox, I greatly want something like this on another champion.

Aatrox is an avatar of war and violence, turning the tides of battle as he inspires an unparalleled bloodlust in his "allies". Even after he disappears back into the shadows of history, his mark is left on those he has "helped". I like the suggested concepts of moving him more toward a team-orientated Fighter, who pushes his team to fight harder; not for silly things like family, duty, or the protection of the innocent, but in anger and fury. "Rage! Rage, against the dying of the light!" A passive (or passive on his ult) that allows Aatrox to have a continuous effect on the battlefield or his on compatriots would fit this idea, I believe.

Perhaps something like this: "Aatrox fuels his allies lust for blood and violence, emboldening them to continue fighting forever-more. Whenever Aatrox and an ally (or allies) contribute toward a kill together, those allies are given a stack of Darkin Fury. For each stack of Darkin Fury, said allies are given bonus (X). All stacks are lost from all allies if Aatrox is killed."

Aatrox is encouraged to fight alongside his teammates (as he was want to do in the tales of history), and leaves a lasting mark upon those he has fought with. Defeating the Avatar of Violence would obviously knock his allies down a peg morale-wise, and this is reflected in the counter-play of taking down Aatrox. This further encourages the Darkin to stick with his team.

Just my two-cents of an idea, anyway :)

Also, unrelated to what I said above, but I have to agree with some that Tryndamere's absolute decimation of Aatrox in-game doesn't feel right :/

Nightshade17Sep 17, 20152 votes

All I'm asking for is to make the Blood Well percentage health, or at least increase the late-game numbers. I can't count how many times I've died, come back, and been dealt the 800 damage of the full Well before I can even do anything.

Anything else is just icing on the cake

KaeblenOct 14, 20151 votes

being able to que up an ability while the blood well timer is running would also mean wonders for a melee champion like aatrox.

combine that with invulnerability on his dash and we could have a big difference right there.

Mr LillySep 17, 201520 votes

If you made him invulnerable when he Q'd I think it would allow for a more enjoyable experience. Currently that is his only way of getting into a fight and he can be knocked backed, stunned, or displaced as soon as he gets off the ground. Fizz is standing a few feet off the ground on a pole and he is invulnerable so I always felt it would make sense to have Aatrox flying through the skies also invulnerable.

Absolute0ChaosSep 17, 20152 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/OWrzu0Ky-make-aatrox-untargetable-during-his-q

I've made a thread about this a few months back. And yes, I agree.

masterdragon481Sep 17, 20154 votes

Personally, I think a complete kit overhaul would be better; he has a bunch of generic skills right now and a revive passive that doesn't really fit his character at all.

Spiderbro lolgSep 17, 20152 votes

Seems kinda op. People already can't stand untargetable movement. Why not just make it like malphite or VI ultimate?

GundayMondayDec 16, 20151 votes

Shyvana would feel good about this kind of change too.

Pteor PhDSep 17, 20152 votes

Well, Aatrox is a demonic super warrior who thrives in battle, but right now is basically useless after his Q is used to start a fight.

Why not make his Q reset every time he procs Blood Price, giving him incentive to turn on the damage portion of his W, giving him a useful niche (repeated knock ups as long as he can chain autos) and making him feel like he's actually thriving in battle by constantly diving forward for more.

SuperLuigiLXIVSep 17, 20153 votes

The nice thing about Aatrox is that he has qualities of both a diver and a split-pusher. He can't dive as well as Vi, true, but his split-push is much better than hers. His split-push isn't as good as Tryndamere, but his teamfight is much better.

One thing I think hurts him as a drain tank though, is that he's set up so that his spells cost percent health while he returns only flat health. This encourages building a small measure of AD+lifesteal on him, followed by a lot of raw defensive stats. So, Spirit Visage to synergize with his W, Thornmail vs AA-heavy champs, GA forever, and so on. A health-intensive build does not do well for him, since it boosts his spell costs but not his sustain or his revive pool. This limits his build paths. He's almost like Riven, except attack damage isn't giving him as reliable of a defensive measure as it does her (though, in exchange, he does get scaling magic damage...). This wasn't even that big a deal a year ago, but now? Now, you're incredibly likely to run into champs who deal true damage, which means that his only efficient build path can trap him into a situation where he can't win duels, which is supposed to be his thing.

Another big issue for me is that the typical Aatrox build relies heavily upon Blood Well being full to gain the AS bonus needed to stand and fight. This isn't unusual for champions with red-bar secondary resources. Tryndamere's main goal in lane is to fill his rage bar so he can win trades with the blessing of RNGesus after all. But the thing is, when Tryndamere cheats death, he fills that bar up. When Aatrox cheats death, he loses that extremely valuable attack speed, just when he needs it the most.

There are a few things that come to mind when thinking of Aatrox's core character:

-He's meant to be an extremely powerful duelist. -He's a war leader who specializes in rallying a lost cause into a bloody victory. -His kit and attitude point towards standing and fighting where most people would run away. -He's a very calm and collected individual, possibly the only champion in LoL who never raises his voice.

I think setting him up as an "offensive offtank" while giving him a sort of rallying power in teamfights would work best for him. Let's rattle something off here...

PASSIVE: Blood Well Damage dealt to Aatrox (including from himself) fills his Blood Well. Blood Well increases Aatrox's auto-attack range by 1 for each 2% filled. When Aatrox is dealt lethal damage, Blood Well restores a percentage of his health. This percentage is increased by 1% for each 1% of Blood Well absorbed. Upon revival, Aatrox gains a large boost to armor and magic resistance that decays quickly.

Pretty self-explanatory. Aatrox has a slight advantage in range when his Blood Well is completely filled, and it's a bonus that doesn't hurt nearly as much to lose at a crucial moment. His revive also scales with max health, opening up juggernaut build paths, and the defensive stat boost is purely so people can't insta-chunk him as soon as he comes back to life...because it ALWAYS sucks to have your passive be negated by that.

**Q: Dark Flight ** Aatrox leaps into battle, damaging and slowing any enemies he hits upon landing. Dark Flight has a range of 650/725/800/875/950, but the farther you leap, the smaller his damage radius is. Dark Flight's cooldown is reduced by 60% if Aatrox deals damage to an enemy champion or an epic monster.

Now Aatrox can jump around in fights and not need CDR so long as he's using it offensively.

W: Blood Price Passively increases all healing done to Aatrox by 1% for each 1% missing health. This bonus is doubled for lifesteal effects.

Active: Aatrox awakens his blade, ramping up his attack damage and selecting a large % of his health bar. For the next X seconds, his autoattacks ignore a percentage of armor and cleave the area around their target. Each time a target is damaged by this auto or cleave effect, they receive a stacking mark that increases Aatrox's damage to that target for each stack. Damage that Aatrox does during Blood Price reduces the selected section of his health bar. When Blood Price ends, Aatrox loses any health still marked by the Blade.

I don't know how true this is, but I always felt like Aatrox's blade is alive, and maybe even partly or wholly responsible for him being who he is. I've often wondered if the blade is the actual Darkin, not Aatrox (it would be rather interesting to find out that Wukong is holding a benevolent Darkin, since his staff is definitely alive, given his death animation). Regardless, I think this change is fitting--Blood Price is very literal, because SOMEONE is going to pay it. Aatrox's goal is to make sure it's not him. The cleaving I put in there because with this setup, I haven't given Aatrox any natural sustain, and I wanted both to keep his preference for standing and fighting as opposed to running (by making it so that Aatrox can do a LOT of damage in a 1v2 jungler gank) and to emphasize that Aatrox is meant to be a team fighter. Meanwhile, the enemy team can punish him with heavy CC by making him eat his own Blood Price, thereby keeping one of his current weaknesses in a different form.

The passive is to let him keep that "why don't you DIE" thing he currently has in a lot of duels, which I feel is important to his identity.

E: Darkin Strike Aatrox launches a blast of energy in a direction from his hand, dealing damage to enemies hit before returning to Aatrox (deals no damage during return flight). When it returns to him, Aatrox's next attack is empowered, dealing magic damage in an area around him. This magic damage is increased for each enemy champion hit during the first part of the spell.

More emphasis on AoE damage, while keeping Aatrox's ability to scale a little bit of mixed damage, which I think is something important to keep. He's meant to be a dangerous duelist, and things like mixed damage from this spell and armor bypass from Blood Price actually make him dangerous.

R: Turn the Tide Aatrox raises his sword to rally his team, boosting the attack damage and ability power of all allies within range by a percentage. For X seconds, any kill made by Aatrox or an allied champion affected by Turn the Tide gives a global boost to allies, healing them for a flat amount and giving them a flat increase to movement speed until Turn the Tide ends. These kill bonuses are doubled for shutdowns. Turn the Tide ends early if Aatrox is killed.

This one is 100% lore-related. Aatrox does what he's supposed to do best, boost his team to win a fight. The actual damage boosts would only affect people relatively close to him, as they rally to his call for battle, but the healing and movespeed would be global, as his team's morale increases as they spill more and more blood, but of course, the blood has to be spilled by Aatrox or someone who rallied to him--anyone under the blade's influence.

And there you have my interpretation of a niche for Aatrox--a diving fighter who specializes in dangerous area-of-effect autoattacks, who absolutely cannot be ignored because his damage only multiplies for every champion in his range, and who can quite literally turn a losing teamfight around.

Granted, I'm sure there are a ton of problems with it, but considering I came up with it on the fly, I expect that. This is just in hopes of inspiring someone :)

CeridranSep 17, 20153 votes

[deleted]

63536895_DELSep 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I believe Aatrox's abilities should be scrapped, and rewritten into something based on leading his allies in teamfights. To be a leader. His very presence on the battlefield inspires those who fight with him. Inspires them to keep fighting on and on. I don't think he should be a duelist, at least not primarily one. He changes the tide of the battle.

Should Aatrox heal his team by fighting? Should they heal him by fighting? Heal his team when he takes damage? Movement speed torwards enemies? AOE sweeping abilities? Morph him into an AD Caster with great lifesteal synergy?

You just described Fiora after her rework.

BeryllSep 17, 20152 votes

Based on lore and voiceovers and maybe the designintent, Aatrox should be someone that thrives in extended battles, the more enemies the better. He is an aspect of war after all. Right now he doesn't do that and only his Q and R reflect that to some extend. In fact only the Q truly does it.

Passive: Aatrox falls to his knees, not fighting anymore, and regenerates consuming all the battle fury he just built up. That's like the complete opposite of what I'd expect. Q: Flawless W: I guess rushing recklessly into battle to the point of hurting yourself to hurt as the enemy as much as possible is okay but frankly that ability stinks out loud in terms of being interesting. Let's not kid ourselves, you don't juggle the two parts of it in a teamfight. (You do in a duel though) E: I guess slowing your enemy allows you to fight more? Dunno, boring, nightmare to balance forcing it to be a poor in almost every possible aspect R: Cool effect. I still think that leeching effect implies some sort of shield and I still get confused when I dont get one uppon ulting 5 people but all in all it's fine.

How to make him unique: Tahm Kench is your solution. Give Aatrox Grey Health. How would grey health work on Aatrox and how does it make him fight more? Instead of that boring revive passive, drop that. As long as Aatrox has grey health left, he can fight. As in. He doesn't die. At all. As long as he is attacking he can keep going, even with his hp at 0. How to work this out? Upon taking dmg, he gets the grey health. Same functionality as Tahm. The difference is that he doesn't consume it to heal himself after a while. After not attacking for a while it just decays and is gone. If he attacks however he prevents it from decaying. If his grey health hits 0 he dies. His abilities would be something like:

Passive: Aatrox converts 100% of the dmg he takes into grey health. The grey health decays at 10%of it's maximum/second As long as Aatrox has grey health he won't die.

So if you had 1000 grey health max, it would decay at 100/s, even if you only took 200 dmg. This would also fix this really counterintuitive consuming of your Ragebar, effectlively making you even weaker upon reviving.

Q: Unchanged

W: basically unchanged

skirmishing Lifesteal, all-in Blood Price. If you already sit at 0 HP, might as well use bloodprice for that full on berserker mode

E: can only be cast if Aatrox has 50% or more Fury Aatrox deals magic damage to nearby enemy champions and fills Blood Well by 20% of its maximum value for each enemy hit. Additionally he gains attack range and a short burst of movement speed If Aatrox's hp falls to 0 this ability becomes permantently activate as long as he stays in combat

Basically Aatrox's Ult. The difference would be that he doesn't get atk-speed but instead gains a small burst of movementspeed and ofc lower numbers except on the range. I think he needs a sticking tool in fights and a good one. This is part one with a ms boost. His current E, as fun as it looks is pretty bad, unreliable and simply cant be good because a free longranged aoe skillshot that isn't blocked by units can't be healthy when good.

R: Create a warzone Creates a big static area on the ground. While in that area Aatrox and his allies are inspired to fight while demoralizing his enemies. Aatrox gains increased attackspeed and movementspeed and his allies gain a reduced effect. Enemies in the zone are slowed by 10%.

Ally effect debatable, but felt like it would fit into his lore, inspiring his "allies" to fight ferociously, overcoming stronger armies.

The basic idea is to put his lore into the way he plays and I think this kit catches it quite well? Might be wrong though but I would play it. Sounds fun to me

tl:dr: Replace Revive passive with fast decaying grey health. As long as Aatrox fights, he stays alive.

PS: Just my two cents. If that's too much, give Aatrox the kit of Darius and remove Darius. He has the perfect kit for Aatrox.

PPS: I always thought he should be a fury based support, leading his allies into battle but that's just me.

KujŒrlighetSep 17, 20152 votes

I'd say something like Fiora's new ultimate would make sense on him, thematically, more than Fiora. Obviously it should be triggered by something other than target points because that's her thing, but context-wise it makes more sense on him. IMO

RhlaxSep 17, 20151 votes

I dont like his W. Maybe it needs a visual effect everytime its toggled. its not that cool right now.. it would be cool if he could actually switch weapon (visually) everytime his w is used..

and his Q stopped from knockups is annoying...

ShénzhìOct 25, 20151 votes

Be cool if Jax the ~~alien~~ Grandmaster at Arms could switch between weapons. Makes more sense.

A grizzy bearSep 18, 20151 votes

Why don't you guys experiment with his R working like Sion's old ult, But instead of him healing his team he gives his team some sort of lifesteal/spellvamp. This would play into the idea of him being bloodthirsty and he inspiring his allies. This would make him a strategic pick for squishy team comps that need some way of making themselves tankier and remove his current super boring "press R to be better" interactions with his ult. Having this aura that he gives would not only make it important for Aatrox to pick decisive moments to use his ult, it would also create really fun lasting moments for your team when they use that healing to survive. It would also make the other team need to see/ban him to avoid a face roll teamcomps (thus adding interaction at the pick/ban phase).

TheWarlord101Apr 2, 20161 votes

This would be hilarious..........

StarfiresSep 19, 20151 votes

Gameplay aside, when I think of Aatrox, I think he screams "lifesteal" tank. Don't really remember his lore, but he feels like he was destined to be some sort of life-steal tank or modeled after Illidan (from Warcraft).

He revolves around health and the thing about him that sticks out the most to me his is W which has life steal built in to it. Of course, you called him a dive-fighter. On the other hand, Aatrox lacks things commonly associated with tanks (namely cc). When he was first designed, I always felt Riot wanted Aatrox to be another melee-adc type like Yi/Tryndamere/Fiora.

Thematically, Aatrox's unique characteristics are really about lifesteal/blood/life. So why not just shift him to actually be more of a tank?

I am thinking his R can actually be a form of an engage. Aatrox Q's in, pops his R and it gives him a substantial damage shield based on damage done. Think of like Evelyn ultimate crossed with a weaker Malphite ultimate (in terms of aoe, not knockup). Not just a larger sword/autoattack range, but a bit more tankiness while he's in there.

Shift his W to be less reliant on pure attack damage and more reliant on having more health.

I am thinking there is a unique space for this sort of character between Mundo (who is a regen tank) and Vladimir (who isn't really a tank, but focuses a lot on lifesteal).

YZYisX7mYrSep 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I'm with you that Aatrox has some issues, and that means he sometimes doesn't feel very satisfying to play, I don't personally feel it's because he's weak though. Statistically he does ok, nothing special, but pretty middle of the pack. I actually feel you hit the nail on the head with one of your other comments "need to look at him and make him stand out from the ordinary". That's Aatrox's big gameplay issue - he doesn't have a distinct enough gameplay identity, so the only major gameplay reason to pick him is if he's the strongest option in his class (diving fighters). ... ... The solution, following that logic, then is to find something special Aatrox can offer and put a significant part of his power budget there.

THAT just sums it up! I'm against massive reworks especially since he's already quite a functional champion with a good laning phase. [his E projectile is kinda slow/unreliable against high skilled opponents who easily dodge it, it gets too narrow and slow but still he does good].

He has mobility and cc so he's not a juggernaut, he also has the dynamic to do shit-tons of damage so he's not mainly tank, that is why we need to build him towards his "Fighter" role. [sustained damage dealer/tank killer ?]

The believe the weak part of his kit is his ULTI, it need to have more impact/more satisfaction. So since his problem is his "core identity" I only have ONE major thematic suggestion for his kit, in his R specifically. Inspired by his lore, I turn him into a god of War, a leader and a teamfighter!

Keep the current ulti effects [the extra A.A. range] but add the following Aura :

Gives allied champions (excluding Aatrox) 10% Lifesteal and 20% spellvamp [or W.o.t.A. passive] + half of Aatrox's ulti Attack speed 20/25/30%. Aura Radius : 600/900/1200 units around Aatrox, duration: 12sec unless Aatrox dies. [passive not counting as death]

Of course the ulti damage may need to be reduced/removed as a result, plus some number tweaks all around, I'm just throwing general ideas here.

_Other additions/alternatives to the Ulti's Aura effects include: _

for each alive, allied champion affected by the aura currently (excluding Aatrox), Aatrox gains 5/10/15 Armor+Magic Resist [incentive for Aatrox players to prefer grouping>splitpushing]
30/40/50% bonus movement speed when moving towards nearby visible enemy champions [maybe too OP with Righteous Glory on teammate]
Allied champions (including Aatrox) get halved health regen effects while under the Aura but their Attacks and Spells cause enemies to bleed for 100% of Aatrox's bonus AD OR 6% of the enemies current health [whichever is more balanced, needs testing] -as magic damage for 3secs, healing them for half of the bleed dmg dealt every 3 seconds. [4 * 3 second intervals]

Thank your for your time @Meddler and the rest of the champion update team in Riot HQ. Good luck with all your projects :-D {{summoner:2}}

PS: I am against flat AD/AP buffs cause they may snowball the game towards Aatrox's favor even when behind, while Lifesteal/Spellvamp are mostly beneficial when you already have the necessary damage yourself! :-)

YZYisX7mYrOct 21, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Witch King,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8T5QcndN,comment-id=00000050,timestamp=2015-09-30T13:12:53.476+0000)

THAT just sums it up! I'm against massive reworks especially since he's already quite a functional champion with a good laning phase. [his E projectile is kinda slow/unreliable against high skilled opponents who easily dodge it, it gets too narrow and slow but still he does good].

He has mobility and cc so he's not a juggernaut, he also has the dynamic to do shit-tons of damage so he's not mainly tank, that is why we need to build him towards his "Fighter" role. [sustained damage dealer/tank killer ?]

The believe the weak part of his kit is his ULTI, it need to have more impact/more satisfaction. So since his problem is his "core identity" I only have ONE major thematic suggestion for his kit, in his R specifically. Inspired by his lore, I turn him into a god of War, a leader and a teamfighter!

Keep the current ulti effects [the extra A.A. range] but add the following Aura :

Gives allied champions (excluding Aatrox) 10% Lifesteal and 20% spellvamp [or W.o.t.A. passive] + half of Aatrox's ulti Attack speed 20/25/30%. Aura Radius : 600/900/1200 units around Aatrox, duration: 12sec unless Aatrox dies. [passive not counting as death]

Of course the ulti damage may need to be reduced/removed as a result, plus some number tweaks all around, I'm just throwing general ideas here.

_Other additions/alternatives to the Ulti's Aura effects include: _

for each alive, allied champion affected by the aura currently (excluding Aatrox), Aatrox gains 5/10/15 Armor+Magic Resist [incentive for Aatrox players to prefer grouping>splitpushing]

30/40/50% bonus movement speed when moving towards nearby visible enemy champions [maybe too OP with Righteous Glory on teammate]

Allied champions (including Aatrox) get halved health regen effects while under the Aura but their Attacks and Spells cause enemies to bleed for 100% of Aatrox's bonus AD OR 6% of the enemies current health [whichever is more balanced, needs testing] -as magic damage for 3secs, healing them for half of the bleed dmg dealt every 3 seconds. [4 * 3 second intervals]

Thank your for your time @Meddler and the rest of the champion update team in Riot HQ. Good luck with all your projects :-D {{summoner:2}}

PS: I am against flat AD/AP buffs cause they may snowball the game towards Aatrox's favor even when behind, while Lifesteal/Spellvamp are mostly beneficial when you already have the necessary damage yourself! :-)

I would also like to add in the idea of "meaningful choice" by having Aatrox player choose from a variety of "bonus ulti effects" with each ulti rank*! That would keep the spell from being too front-loaded and it would help Aatrox's late game where he kinda falls off. :-)

*alternative idea to this, is having a harvesting mechanic like Gangplanks Krakens where Aatrox farms "ounces of Blood" eg: +1 from a minion, +2 from a large minion/monster/scuttle crab, +3 from champion/epic monster. Eg picking 1 bonus effect for ulti on 80/170/260 ounces collected (all numbers need testing of course!)

AMYS GRAVESep 30, 20151 votes

what if during Aatrox's ult he did % his max HP physical damage to the enemy, while doing % their max HP physical damage to himself. This doubles down on his "paying for damage with his own blood" theme and means that he can not focus tanks at all giving him a more distinctive theme both through thematics and gameplay.

OlafRagnarsonOct 14, 20151 votes

I have 600 ranked games with Aatrox. Here is what you need to do:

1)Get rid of his blood well draining out of combat. 2)Permanently increase his blood wells capacity by 2 HP per minion kill and 15 per kill or assist, and with that, making his max increase in attack speed potentially higher. 3)Change his Ult to Darkin Rally. Forget the bonus attack speed and AOE damage. Instead, nearby enemy champions are demoralized, reducing their attack speed and movement speed by 30%. During the same 5 seconds, nearby ally champions attack speeds are increased by 30%, and further away allies move with increased movement speed towards Aatrox's location. For 12 seconds, every attack activates his bonus life steal, and all life stolen beyond what his blood well can hold spills over and heals nearby champions.

Now he will live up to his description in lore. He gains some scaling with his ability to increase his blood well capacity and becomes much more game changing in team fights.

Gertie207Oct 20, 20151 votes

If you could make it so that when he uses his 'R' that minions surounding him will get a buff in AD/AS related to his lore

The Bearded BardOct 25, 20151 votes

Honestly I think you guys should have went the support route on Aatrox. When I read his lore for the first time, I thought 'Wow, this champ is going to be a really badass support that takes a losing battle and turns it into an all out bloodbath' then I read his kit and look at that, no support aspects and a pretty boring kit overall.

DaedricTerror13Oct 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm with you that Aatrox has some issues, and that means he sometimes doesn't feel very satisfying to play, I don't personally feel it's because he's weak though. Statistically he does ok, nothing special, but pretty middle of the pack. I actually feel you hit the nail on the head with one of your other comments "need to look at him and make him stand out from the ordinary". That's Aatrox's big gameplay issue - he doesn't have a distinct enough gameplay identity, so the only major gameplay reason to pick him is if he's the strongest option in his class (diving fighters). Other divers have more unique things they bring to a team, so there's reason to pick them even if they're not numerically the strongest (Jarvan has strong synergies with Gnar and Vayne, Nocturne can join a fight from long range, Vi offers almost guaranteed access to and CC on a priority target etc). Since Aatrox doesn't have something that distinct however he instead has to compete purely on more general grounds (damage, tankiness/sustain primarily). To feel good he'd therefore need to be noticeably overpowered.

The solution, following that logic, then is to find something special Aatrox can offer and put a significant part of his power budget there. We don't have work on Aatrox currently prioritized, but have kicked around some ideas for ways to do that whenever opportunity to work on him permits. There's one direction in particular I personally feel's got a lot of potential (and some noticeable risks), before I get into details about that though I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on what we could do to Aatrox to give him a unique space in the game.

Can you guys stop talking about "statistics"? Faker is known as the best player in the entire world and even he only has a 70% win rate, only 10% higher than most people, Stastics are complete and utter bullshit.

Its a team game and you can go 0/30 on aatrox and still win the game, and that becomes a positive aatrox statistic!

Why don't you stop looking at statistics and actually play a game with him! Hell do it in silver! Then you'll finally stop being blind!

Smoke AlchemistFeb 10, 20171 votes

This comment was posted about a year ago and we have still never gotten those details about potential "rework" ideas.

Smoke AlchemistFeb 10, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Smoke Alchemist,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8T5QcndN,comment-id=00000056,timestamp=2017-02-10T15:31:28.737+0000)

This comment was posted about a year ago and we have still never gotten those details about potential "rework" ideas.

There's one direction in particular I personally feel's got a lot of potential (and some noticeable risks), before I get into details about that though I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on what we could do to Aatrox to give him a unique space in the game.

Dan SquaredSep 17, 20153 votes

I think perhaps instead of looking at what his gameplay already brings to the table, we should instead look at what was missed with his character concept.

His lore presented him as a legend known across Valoran in various forms, with different cultures remembering him differently. He would appear and change the course of battle not only by joining in himself, but by rallying the losing fighters and spurning them into eventual bloodlust. His quotes all glorify war and encourage others to take part in it. Aatrox was all about war, and turning people in rage-o-holics, thinking battle was mankinds true nature

I think rather than making him a diving fighter, what he could instead become is something of a fighter + team buff. I'm thinking maybe something akin to old-sion ult....something that really encourages the rest of the team to go all out, even at the expense of their own safety.

Remove current W...but put some stupid lifesteal number on his ult. This keeps his lane sustain gated somewhat as he could still be forced out pre-6 and while the ult is on CD, but when its up he has the option of turning into Leagues best drain tank, only temporarily of course.

But in addition, allies in the area get some kind of benefit and encourages them to attack....maybe attack in general, or maybe as long as they attack his target. Not sure on the specifics but some options might include: -increased movement towards enemies -increased armor/magic pen -lifesteal/spellvamp -attack speed and CDR boost...which has the potential to break the current cap. (example: ult provides 10% cdr, but an ally under the effect of the ult already has 40% cdr. Aatrox ult would allow the affected champ 50% cdr for the duration of the buff)

maybe add a debuff to affected allies after the ult ends. Meaning when he activates it he better be sure his team can clean up, otherwise they will be weakened when its over. Also allows enemy counterplay, bait the Aatrox team ult, kite it out, then re-engage when it ends and the team is vulnerable. Perhaps a short duration but sizable slow that can allow the enemy to easily pin down the backline