People actually complain about zed when he's the fairest of any assassin and actually requires skill to do his job whereas stuff like Talon and Rengar just dump their load on your face without having to put any thought into it.
TheHappyReaperz62 votesPeople hate assassins.
Melledoneus12 votesPeople hate things that kill them fast. It's natural.
TyrekGoldenspear42 votesIt does make humans as a whole survive longer if they don't like things that kill them.
Chromatic Eagle5 votesThat's deep bro.
Melledoneus14 votesAre you saying Darwinian law dictates that intentional feeders wouldn't survive out in the world?
Iźuku Midoriya2 votesbut heaven forbid that marksman can shred tanks
Melledoneus4 votesRiot's dialing back armor pen and finding new ways to make Randuin's and thornmail good.
I'd hold off on that train if thought if I were you.
ProfDrDeath39 votesZed's assassination pattern is the fairest out of all the assassins.
The reason people complain about him is the comparatively high laning strength between being an energy user, having long-ranged poke/waveclear and an ability to aid CS'ing in a major way.
SwiftKitten883 votesZed's assassination pattern is the fairest out of all the assassins.
actually no it isn't...
has to land a skillshot...
which NO OTHER assassin or diver has to do, even 
can ulti someone without landing her Q if she really wants to
Ralanr18 votesDiana is a diver and Nidalee is a hybrid artillery mage.
ChaoticPinecone5 votesI always had a problem with Diana being classified a "Diver". What makes her a Diver? All the other divers can build tank when they fall behind. Diana is really the only one who cant.
I personally think Diana is classified wrong. She is more like an all-in Assassin akin to Akali or Rengar, not a Diver like Vi or Hecarim. Ekko is more of a Diver than Diana is.
Oelyk11 votesMassive disruption skill, semi-tanky with W, R is the literal dive, essentially havoc breaker then zhonyas and wait for team.
Honestly Diana is as much assassin as any other assassin, damage wise, but doesn't have the slippery-ness most assassins run with (Fizz E, Zed shadows, Talon parkour, Leblanc W, Katarina shunpo, Akali smokescreen, Kha reset jump, ekkos R or E).
Even though most of those can and are used offensively, they can also be used defensively unlike Diana who is in a sense, just dives and her skills are not versatile and are purely damage and disruption with a massive gapcloser with built in tankiness.
I mean even Aatrox is classified as a diver but his skills are way more versatile(Run away and slow em too!) and more DPS based kit than Diana nuclear bomb-like kit (and when do you see a nuclear bomb run away after killing someone?)
Did this help?
ChaoticPinecone1 votesYou can list what makes her an Assassin, but I can also list what stops her from being a Diver:
Look at the other divers - Vi, Xin, Nocturne, Pantheon, Jarvan, Wukong etc. They all have some sort of large AoE CC, some lockdown CC, or some other way to get onto a carry even when there is a massive frontline. They can also function while building primarily tank. Of the Divers, Diana is one who cant really be a threat going full tank nor can she rush past a frontline to get to the backline carries.
The other Diver that seems a bit off is Aatrox. Isnt Aatrox supposed to be this lifesteal-regen-reviving 1v1 splitpusher? He seems to fit the bill for Skirmisher a lot better than Diver. Aatrox, even with his new ult, is pretty terrible diving into a fight.
Edit - I mean, I can see a clear similarity between Wukong, Jarvan, Vi, Xin, and Hecarim. Does Diana really fit that bill?
Ralanr8 votes's ult is literally point and click. If you get target the backline, then the frontline ain't stopping you unless you're Poppy. And you don't even need to land your Q to do it, landing your Q just resets the cooldown on your 26 second ult.
.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votesNidalee is an hybrid... But she's still Assassin class
Assassins
Zed Kha’zix Fizz LeBlanc Akali Talon Katarina Kassadin Shaco Rengar Nidalee (hybrid Artillery)
Ralanr2 votesWell you got me there.
Asayake 5150glow2 votesactually no it isn't...
Zed needs to land a Q.
He SHOULD need to land 3, but 'balance'.
SwiftKitten884 votes[{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PMNFfx3t,comment-id=000600010002,timestamp=2017-04-13T23:02:58.729+0000)
Zed needs to land a Q.
He SHOULD need to land 3, but 'balance'.
Technically yes he does. but he only needs to land it AFTER he goes in and is at point black range, it goes through minions, and has a over TWICE the width of nidalee's spear (125 vs 60)
you have to be REALLY BAD to miss a 125 width skillshot at point blank range..
IcyPepper22 votesI think it's because of the manaless poke more so than anything else. Pisses mana mage mains off, I suppose?
However, it's entirely possible to complain about X even if Y is worse. Just because one thing is an even worse problem doesn't invalidate another problem... even if that problem is merely your frustration. :/
invisiblecat112 votesI mean He can press R E and One Auto and kill someone late game Another broken part is how in lane he can harass you from so far away, and when you walk up, he can WEQAuto for 1/3-2/3 of your hp
Mira Arya Enthe12 votesMM look at the unpopular champions
People dislike being outplayed. They'd rather think it was just a matter of numbers so they can blame Riot. If another player beats them because they dodged their shit and pressed buttons correctly, it infuriates them. Because basically they cannot admit the other player played better. To the point where they will gladly disregard skill curve statistics and make up any excuse why they died to these champions.
Solitair10 votesThe problem is that supposed "outplay" champions have "outplay mechanics" which give them a significant outplay advantage. It is such that they will have a response to just about anything a champion with a less overloaded kit can throw at them, and it comes to feel like you cannot outplay them unless they are the ones to outplay themselves by making stupid mistakes. This makes them feel unfair, rather than feel like they actually outskill you.
Wukong Airlines12 votesYeah, a [[ Long range poke with easily regenerating resource bar + % HP insta active passive + an ult that actually gives additional AD when used wisely ]] is more balanced that Newly designed Talon.
I like the fact that you have your fanbase which will always approve of your points even when you don't have to give a meaningful argument about what's balanced and what's not.
Cheers.
The Whamboozler8 votesTwo reasons.
1: Zed has range. A lot of range... making it hard to feel safe from him. Rengo has to ult to get on you unless you facecheck a bush he's in and the game telegraphs that he's coming. HARD. Talon has to walk up into your grill or flip a wall and land next to you. Sure, he can do it while his ult is up, but again... telegraphed as hell. Zed can shadow-swap in and ult you from almost a screen away, mash all his keys, and kill you. There's counterplay to his ult, yeah... but his long-range dive in is brutal, and he can toss his Q from across the screen through his shadows. Zed doesn't feel like he suffers the downsides of a melee champ, and even ranged champs have to play against him as if he's Xerath or something with all the long-ranged poke he can toss at you... let alone his hard all-in if he chooses to. This makes him hard to deal with unless you can deal with both poke AND all-in... Most mages and squishy mids do one or the other.
2: Zed is safe. He can shadow-swap away from dangers with ease. He can abort a failed dive with one button and save himself from death by his own mistakes. He's near impossible to pin down. I see him almost like AD LeBlanc. Not worth ganking unless he's gone in hard and blown his W first... and even then he'll probably get the kill he swapped in for before he dies. Hell, he might still get out too by swapping back to his ult shadow! He's very hard to punish, but he punishes YOU very brutally. Counterplay or not, that's frustrating. Talon and Rengar don't really have a comparable escape... or any escape at all sometimes. They can just click to run away. If Talon didn't use his ult to go in, he can use it to stealth.... that's about it.
Hell, I thought Zed was better back when his ult put a shadow beside his target instead of leaving an escape route. Sure, it gave him more burst on his ult, but not having that safety net made his all-ins more punishing if he fucked up. No idea why Riot changed him, but it's a large part of the reason people find him frustrating. You have to build specifically to counter him or he'll bone you (which isn't an build against the rest of his team at times) and you know how people hate altering theri cookie-cutter builds. Even if you build against him it just prevents death... doing nothing to let you kill HIM in return. People hate Fizz too for the same damned reason. He's super safe and mobile and frustrating.
All of that said... I DO think Rengar and Talon are bigger problems. But then, any champ that snowballs off kills and is really hard to keep at bay would be. Why the hell did Rengar need a free cleanse, Riot? What the hell were you thinking?! "CC and kill the assassin when he dives" is the way you are supposed to stop them and protect your carry. There is no saving a squishy from Rengar. EVER. That's pretty stupid.
Kitsuki056 votesThe thing that's different about Zed is that he has such a powerful and non-situational escape. If he's fed, he is killing someone on your team and you won't kill him, not without him making a major misplay. There is no way for you to out run zed to catch him or escape him, he just uses ult and gets to pull off all of his abilities and get away. Even if you CC him right after he kills your ally, he will just teleport away as soon as it wears off, and chances are your highest source of damage is dead already.
Really the only thing that can be done to stop zed is to give the ally he's targeting massive protection.
SwiftKitten885 votesi haven't seen enough anymore to make an informed decision on his current state of balance.
but i do know.. i would rather see him than 
or 
.
Im A Jayce God5 votesThe only reason why i hate zed is because hes an ad mid laner. And for some reason, zed mains will play Talon/Yasuo if zed is banned. So in other words we get a full ad team
Solitair5 votesbecaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuuseeeeeeeeeeee
He still doesn't feel fair to play against. He still feels frustrating. He still feels like he always has an advantage, and like you cannot outplay him due to this kit advantage, but rather have to wait for him to make the fatal mistakes.
This is the assassin's curse. They feel terrible to play against. They win games by killing you until you want to kill yourself, and even when they're losing, they can still make their rival immobile squishies also feel like they are losing and go into full on tilt rages in games whre they are actually winning.
BakedLotion5 votesBecause Zed has manaless poke and waveclear. And can farm safely under tower without missing a single minion.
And if hes behind? lol look at me spam shurikens.
Not only that, he doesnt need to land shit to kill a squishy. R E (duskblade proc auto) will 100-0 an adc mid and late game.
SwiftKitten884 votesREALLY people?
first you downvote my post saying nidalee is harder than zed because she has to land a skillshot.
and now your trying to tell me that i somehow "don't know" what nidalee is?
do u also try to tell faker how to play 
, or froggen he isn't playing 
right?
do u tell Steven hawking he has has a flaw in his formula
seriously people.. the amount you hate nidalee does not change that fact that there are only 37 people in north America who play nidalee MORE than me. (yes i counted.. i was bored...)
unless your one of them... It's quite possible i know a BIT more about her than you do... (read as : STFU about things you know nothing about and listen to the experts)
LankPants9 votesdo u also try to tell faker how to play
Did you, the silver 5 Nidalee main just compare yourself to Faker, the best LoL player and Steven Hawking, quite possibly the most brilliant scientist of our age? Are you fucking serious. You are bellow average for a League player, you are not an expert. Pull your god damn ego into check.
SwiftKitten881 votesDid you, the silver 5 Nidalee main just compare yourself to Faker, the best LoL player and Steven Hawking, quite possibly the most brilliant scientist of out age? Are you fucking serious. You are bellow average for a League player, you are not an expert. Pull your god damn ego into check.
i don't claim to be challenger... i know im not... and more importantly i know WHAT prevents me from being challenger. i can live with the fact that i cant improve in that area. Could i EVER be a pro player? no... of course not... my champion pool is WAY too small. i dont have the APM, i dont have the click accuracy, and i cant keep track of what EXACTLY each of the 9 other players are doing in a teamfight when there are 10+ spells going off at once. and strangely enough when my mains has a sub 45% win rate.. it becomes SLIGHTLY harder to carry. and for that matter nidalee is NOT a champions you can really "carry" on. she REQUIRES team communication, something which is quite hard to come by in lower elo... if the enemy team is grouped as five... you literally CANNOT pounce in... no matter HOW low anyone is, nidalee NEEDS support from her teammates. no im not challenger, im not master and im not diamond, but could EASILY teach challenger players how to improve on nidalee, maybe even some pro players (i have seen some pretty cringeworthy nidalee decisions in LCS in season 6, season 7 it seems the only people still playing her are actually GOOD with her)
there are things higher elo players can do that i cant do... that i will NEVER be able to do... but NONE of those affect my knowledge of nidalee.
am i the best nidalee player? no of course not... but i AM likely the best nidalee player on these boards that has ever responded to any of you about her.
i know EXACTLY what she can do and what she CAN'T do... and i have been able to predict with 100% accuracy EXACTLY how EVERY change done to nidalee would affect her BEFORE it hit live servers and WITHOUT ever having a pbe account, just by solely reading the changes listed at surrender at 20. and i have been 100% accurate EXCEPT TWICE, and on one of those every person on the planet was wrong with me, nobody could have seen that coming, no one did. and therefore i don't feel about about not being able to predict it.
when i see an enemy nidalee if i have vision on them i can predict exactly what they will do about 3 second (or more) before they do it. (assuming they don't do something completely stupid and get themselves killed for no reason, then i just facepaw)
the point is... i may not in the top 1% of player in league... but i AM in the top .001% of NIDALEE players.
but i don't post opinions on things i don't know anything about, if u don't believe me... look at the FIRST page in this tread and the response i posted...
the truth is... im not going to convince you.. you have already made up your mind.. and nothing i say is going to change it.
do u think a diamond person with 10 games on nidalee has a better picture on how to play her than i do? i guarantee you they don't..
pick your elo... plat diamond master challenger pro... and they try to figure out how many games it would take them playing her to learn everything i have by playing her as my main for 5 seasons then have them post on the forums in response to your topic. after playing that many games... and chance are.. i'd still know a whole shit ton more than them about her because you made your estimate too damn low..
LankPants10 votesHere's the thing, if you were as good of a Nidalee player as you think you are you'd be able to carry yourself through silver, no questions asked.
I also play a champion who's far from good right now, I'm doing far better than you are though. I maintain a 55% winrate on Sejuani, about 7% above her average 48%. You on the other hand maintain a 45% winrate, which is close to her average winrate , but actually about 2% lower.
I'm not that good at the game, I'm only good at 2 or 3 champs, but I can exploit my relative skill (and I'm still not claiming to be the best Sejuani player here, I'm far better than average for my Elo but far from the best) to climb to high gold. I can't imagine struggling in Silver TBH.
pick your elo... plat diamond master challenger pro... and they try to figure out how many games it would take them to learn everything i have by playing her as my main for 5 seasons then have them post on the forums in response to your topic. after playing that many games...
A Diamond player could learn to play Nidalee to the same aptitude as you in ~2 weeks, at least if they're not a one trick pony who climbed there on a single champion. For the players in Diamond who play multiple champs frequently one of their strengths is their strong adaptability. They're quick to learn and they can pick up more in depth mechanics that would take other players many weeks often in the span of a game.
and chance are.. i'd still know a whole shit ton more than them about her because you made your estimate too damn low..
I'd imagine you know a lot more about Nidalee than Steven Hawking, I think you underestimate how much Faker knows about any given champ in League though. I'd imagine Faker knows Nidalee's clear speeds, %s and about how much damage she can do at any given breakpoint. He may not have the same level of execution on these things as someone like Blank would, but he's most likely capable and very knowledgeable. He needs to know clears after all, if he didn't he could end up getting ganked by Nid more than he would otherwise.
What you are saying when you compare your Nid to Froggen's Anivia, Faker's Syndra and Steven Hawkings formula is that it's the best in the field, in this case the field of Nidalee players. I can disprove this quite simply. You see this guy? He has a 61% winrate, 16% higher than yours with Nidalee in Korean challenger.
You can claim to be knowledgeable, even an expert if you'd like. What makes you look like an egotistical arse is trying to compare yourself to all time greats and saying you're as good as them when your list of achievements is completely baron.
Handin Out Naps10 votesBut you aren't Faker and you aren't Froggen. Sorry to disappoint you but if you were actually good at your main you wouldn't be silver. Also Zed needs to hit his q's, I dont know where you get off talking about "having to land a skillshot" as if Zed doesn't as well.
Envoy of Melody4 votesPersonally, it's because I hate Zed's personality and guts. He's an edgelord Ninja who laughs like a freak with smoker lungs and I hate seeing his running animation when he's going for a retard 4 man bot dive right as he activates Youmuu. I hate the character, I hate his guts and I especially hate that he's iconic as "that character the pro players used to play because he's soooooooooooo pro". That's the same thing people said about Vayne before I picked her up and realized the only CHALLENGE in playing Vayne is learning how to lane on botlane. Aside from that, she's only a quarter, no, not EVEN a quarter of what Taliyah's difficulty is.
Some players display Zed as a god-tier difficulty assassin and completely forget that unlike Rengar and Talon, he has a get out of jail card, namely his ultimate. If Talon jumps over a wall to grab a kill and fails, he dies. If Rengar hops into the enemy line, the only hope he has is that they don't murder him before he flashes out. Zed? Ult, teleport from shadow to shadow, cya.
SnugglePuggle942 votesExactly! Who the f created this champ in the first place? Zed screams CertainlyT to me. Anyhow I wish he was deleted from the game.
Ciaoe3 votesYou forgot about Tryndamere, 2autos you're done.
LankPants3 votesAs someone who primarily plays tanks and Bruisers I'd prefer to play against the majority of assassins rather than Zed. I'm more than happy to play against a Katarina or an Akali. I mostly just don't want to play against Zed, Kha'zix, Rengar and LB, I'm fine with any other assassin, including Talon.
Limrick3 votesZed might be the fairest, and I respect that about him, but as long as this item is in the game 
, no assassin will ever be truly fair.
SoI invictus3 votesBut i do love to lane against Zed as Lissandra. I wonder if he also likes to lane against me...
Hahahahyena3 votestell me what am i supposed to do when zed zips in and destroys my adc in a blink of an eye and zips right back out? i cant even use 
because he blinks right back out before i could even target my mouse over him
doesnt give nearly a big enough shield to cover his damage
is far too slow
what counterplay does he even have at that point?
Lauchmelder2 votesI feel like there's an /s missing here.
Throw your CC on top of your ADC (naturally when he ults your ADC, and then timed). Exhaust him the second he gets ouf of his ult. Shield when he's about to reappear.
Zed's kit might be bullshit to deal with, but he's the fairest assassin you will find in this game.
Skylarke4 votes[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PMNFfx3t,comment-id=002d0000,timestamp=2017-04-14T09:00:47.738+0000)
Zed's kit might be bullshit to deal with, but he's the fairest assassin you will find in this game.
This is not a reassuring statement.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku3 votes is more fair than . Talon depend more on ennmy mistakes, Zed on the player himself.
Asayake 5150glow3 votes[{quoted}](name=Ryuumoku no koke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PMNFfx3t,comment-id=0032,timestamp=2017-04-14T12:26:55.275+0000)
Not really, I've had Talon R+meleeQ+auto and nearly oneshot me when he was 1/4 with decent CS, and I was even.
Dominick Destine3 votes[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PMNFfx3t,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-04-13T18:26:09.530+0000)
zed...he's the fairest of any assassin
LOL.
I guess if you're using as a frame of reference champions like or , maybe you have a point, but Zed is very easy to play and over-effective for the effort. He has multiple instant escape mechanisms, EXTREMELY high base stats and is manaless. Even Talon and Annie have none of these.
Personally, if I were going to nerf Zed, I'd chunk his base MS by about 10 points and reduce his base armor by 5. Make him vulnerable during laning and force him to rely on his shadows for repositiong rather than having jacked up movement speed for no discernable reason.
Anhartamin2 votes[deleted]
Dominick Destine4 votesZeds laning is pretty weak
He has extremely high base stats, a safe last hit with shuriken/contempt for the weak and wave clear/poke with shadow.
He is also manaless... please explain how this is "weak", if by "weak" you mean "not able to kill as easily as post-6" then maybe, but weak in general? or vulnerable if you will? absolutely not.
Punish him when it's down and harass him super hard with Autos and spells.
You do realize Zed will just backoff after wave-clearing with shadow, right? or if he doesn't want to waste shadow he'll just last hit with shuriken.... or fuck it, just let you push and very easily last hit under turret with contempt for the weak.
Unlike Ahri, Zed has a LOT of options during laning, which range from insanely safe to very aggressive. His ultra high base stats and manaless abilities allow him this.
