Pssst, Riot, If you're really going to rework Yasuo...

Xyntheyxz·Dec 21, 2016·85 votes·4,235 views

Remove. The. Shield. Passive.

140 Comments

SerBlaiseDec 21, 201616 votes

I liked the idea to make windwall use up flow, so that he has to choose between using his passive shield or using the windwall.

Spicy RiceDec 21, 20166 votes

I like how people think that making him choose between a necessary but unreliable passive, and an equally necessary windwall is somehow balance and not gutting

HyperiönDec 21, 201610 votes

because no dualist should be able to block every ability auto attack in a skirmish. And then not to mention his knockup, his free crit, and free 50% armor pen.

Spicy RiceDec 21, 20169 votes

I too can mention the good parts of a champs kit, and call it all free

HyperiönDec 21, 201614 votes

Just face it, his kit is too overloaded.

Spicy RiceDec 21, 20165 votes

I believe it's not, and will argue against those who say otherwise

VenomarDec 21, 20165 votes

Then argue it. Proclaiming "I disagree!" isn't an argument.

Sun Wu RyuumokuDec 21, 20162 votes

wtf are u saying... there nothing wrong with

because no dualist should be able to block every ability auto attack in a skirmish

Its similary to Fiora. Nothing wrong with this...

Sound like a silver speech

HyperiönDec 21, 20161 votes

Fiora blocks 1 ability.

Sun Wu RyuumokuDec 21, 20161 votes

what don't u understand in " similary" ?? But what's u say is wrong, anyway. Fiora block all during his poise.

HyperiönDec 21, 20163 votes

.75 seconds is roughly 1 ability. Unless the enemies time them at the same time, and have the same ping.

Yasuo's windwall lasts 3.75 seconds and blocks everything except certain abilities.

Sun Wu RyuumokuDec 22, 20161 votes

u are just wrong. MonkeyKing can use all of his abilities in less 1sec just for example. anyway.

SzGamer227Dec 22, 20161 votes

So Fiora potentially blocking more than one spell means that Yasuo blocking every spell and auto attack that comes his direction for 5 times the duration is somehow not stupid? I think you lost sight of what we're discussing here because you want to prove that Fiora's Riposte can maybe block multiple spells against champions with really fast spell combos if you time it just right when this is clearly nothing close to what Yasuo's Wind Wall is capable of.

Sun Wu RyuumokuDec 23, 20161 votes

my point was just possibility to block all isnt just Yasuo.

because no dualist should be able to block every ability auto attack in a skirmish

I wasn't saying it was fair or not to begin.

So Fiora potentially blocking more than one spell means that Yasuo blocking every spell and auto attack that comes his direction for 5 times the duration is somehow not stupid?

need to precise rangedauto attack .

Dextix LTDec 21, 20163 votes

I did not realize that fiora can make an entire area immune to any ranged attacks. My bad.......

Sun Wu RyuumokuDec 21, 20163 votes

and ? i was just speaking for block every ability but np. not my fault if all your team including u launch all ur spell in his wall.

Dextix LTDec 21, 20164 votes

You do not need to launch spells, the area is still immune to ranged attacks.

Such an ability is actually around ultimate level when you consider what power making an entire area immune to ranged attacks.

Even if you do not launch spells, it does not matter, because you cant launch spells in that area.

Sun Wu RyuumokuDec 22, 20161 votes

he have big cd... So its your or/and your team if ur spell go in his wall.

Dextix LTDec 22, 20162 votes

English, do you speak it?

EVEN IF YOU DO NOT LAUNCH SPELLS, IT STILL CREATES AN AREA WHERE YOU CANT USE SPELLS!

NineTailedMysticDec 22, 20161 votes

Except Fiora's is .5s, essentially CCs herself, costs mana, and is overall much better to play against.

SerBlaiseDec 21, 20165 votes

I mean, it's not like OTHER champions have ONLY a shield OR a projectile wall...They have to actually trade health to apply damage.

Spicy RiceDec 21, 20164 votes

the best champs to compare yasuo to, are melee adc's ( Fiora, Tryndamere, and yi).

All said champions have powerful defensive spells.

Yi has alpha strike to become untargetable and meditate to get huge amounts of damage reduction. Not to mention his ult making him immune to slows.

Tryndamere has his q to heal him for approx 300 hp, his w which reduced the ad of all enemies around him, and his ult stops him from dying for 5 secs.

Fiora has the least amount of defensiveness, but arguably has the most powerful. She can literally block anything in the game(not sure about towers).

Compare that to yasuo

He has a shield that disappears 1 sec after taking any damage from a champion or monster, which he can't controll when it activates.

And a windwall that creates an area that projectiles can't enter.

SerBlaiseDec 21, 20166 votes

Not sure I'm catching your point. I guess if you look at all things in his kit, his pattern of applying damage and trading is too safe compared to the champions you mentioned.

He can quickly engage, hard CC, shield almost all damage, and retreat and repeat ad infinitum every minion wave (aided by not having mana costs).

Let's look at the champions you mentioned; they are good examples because they fall into the same class of light fighters.

Master Yi:

Can engage quickly
NO CC
Can shield damage
NO quick escape

Tryndamere:

Can engage quickly
soft CC
can heal damage, but no shield
No quick escape

Fiora:

Can engage quickly
Situational CC that is entirely dependent on the enemy champion
Can parry some damage/heal a little on q
can disengage somewhat quickly with MS/low cd from Qing

Overall, fiora is closest. However, yasuo still has superior mobility (fraction of a second) and two ways to prevent damage whereas fiora really only has W. Plus she is gated by mana. So Yasuo still has the better trading kit here, not even going into damage. And it's that trading that makes him obnoxious to lane against.

EDIT: note I'm thinking pre-lvl 6, since this is the key lane trading time. I could redo this for post 6 and probably come out with similar results.

AHeroNamedHawkeDec 21, 201611 votes

> People actually think higher base stats are more interactive than a 1 second shield the champion can't control > niceme.me

EROTIC RAID BOSSDec 21, 20166 votes

this board is full of absolute morons

riot should ignore pretty much everything on here

ph1234kDec 21, 20161 votes

It is sad to see how many people there are that don't realize how easy Yas is to play against and that don't realize that he is a champ that is forced to fight on his opponent's terms at all times.

Dextix LTDec 21, 20163 votes

Yasuo is forced to fight on opponents terms? What are you high on? He is the one who dictates the terms due to his kit!

ph1234kDec 21, 20161 votes

His E is reliant on how many targets are available, which you control (assuming he is around you which he has to be to fight). His shield is removable at absolutely any time and is not on his terms. His wind wall is also on his opponent's terms since it requires that his opponent has a specific skillset and that they use it while he has wall up. His 3rd Q is on his opponent's terms because of it's range. And his ult is on his opponent's terms usually (unless your team has additional knockup which is why at high elo he isn't played unless there is compliments to him because he is too weak by himself).

He has one of the easiest kits to outplay in the entire game.

Dextix LTDec 21, 20163 votes

No, you do not control the availability of targets, you can control only your position, and when you will go in to farm, yasuo can reach you.

His shield can be removed, but this requires you to get in aa range, which means that he can reach you. And if you remove it with an ability, congratulations, his shield did its job.

His windwall is not on the opponents terms, because he is the one who uses the ability. HE chooses when to block and what to block, not you.

His q is on opponents terms because of its range? So by your logic, every goddamn skillshot and ability in the game is always on the opponents terms, despite YOU choosing when and how to use it? Dafuq logic mate?

And his ult is on opponents terms, while yasuo and his team are the ones to set them up? Wat?

Dude? Do you read what you write? I can apply all that you said to any champion currently, and say that they all depend playing on opponents terms. I think you need to read more about what outplay means too.

He has one of the easiest kits to outplay others in the game, just like lee.

ph1234kDec 21, 20161 votes

"Congratulations he did his job"

Except that he dies though lmao.

I see you like to argue, but I don't have time for you. (especially for theory about some champ that most people suck and lose with) You should probably spend your time coaching Yasuo players since they lose every lane and game against me which is why Yasuo and Katerina are my favorite champs to play against. I love guaranteed wins.

Maybe one of your coached Yasuo's would get matched against me one day and actually be able to do something other than feed and get stomped. Maybe. I mean, they will still most likely lose but you know it is worth a shot right?

Dextix LTDec 22, 20162 votes

If you quote, do not take sentences out of context at least.

And if you remove it with an ability, congratulations, his shield did its job.

This is the full quote. You were talking about poking down his shield. If you poke it with an aa, you get too close to him so he can attack. If you remove it with an ability, the shield did its job, because currently it is enough to basically negate 1 skill. How does he die in that situation? He still has his windwall if it is needed too.

And your evidence about yasuo being a good champion is comical. Just because you can beat a champion does not mean he is balanced or good for the game health. Yasuo has a very high skill cap, and to utilize him to a maximum potential you have to be an icredibly good player, same with katarina. Just because you play against people who suck, does not mean it is the fault of the champion.

As an example i will use a pre-nerf kassawin. You know, the one with the biggest ban rate in LOL history? When i played vs him, i never lost too. You want to know why? Because people took him despite not knowing how to play him. In the end this results in an incredibly op champion being operated by a shitty player. And that player losing is his own fault, not the champions.

I will repeat. IS yasuo op? No, currently he is not, i will go and say that he is pretty balanced. This however, does not negate the fact that he is toxic to the game and incredibly furstrating to deal with. His entire kit revolves around him having the power to outplay his opponent, yet giving the opponent the moment to strike only when he fucks up. That is simply bad design.

Yasuo should have more clear strenghts and weaknesses, he should be reshaped as an incredibly strong samurai that will slice you to shreds if you get close. But he should not be able to have one of the best utilities in the game at the same time, and instead of being a stat stick, his kit should be something to be fun , played with and against.

JQKAndreiDec 22, 20161 votes

His shield can be removed, but this requires you to get in aa range, which means that he can reach you. And if you remove it with an ability, congratulations, his shield did its job.

This may be a little too complex for you, but you can use an ability to farm minions and at the same time hit Yasuo to take down his shield. Examples are Viktor's E, Ahri's Q, Zed's Q... every champion has something.

Dextix LTDec 22, 20162 votes

Not everyone has an aoe ability, plus, yasuo wont just stand there waiting for aoe to get him, furthermore again, his shield blocked an ability instead of his hp, IT DID ITS JOB!

yay nibbersDec 21, 20161 votes

He can only dash if there's enemy targets around to dash to. If you go in on him his only option is either run away or dash through you, potentially right into a juicy gank if you set it up. This works especially well if you let him push into you a bit.

Dextix LTDec 21, 20162 votes

Because minions are soooooo hard to find in lanes /s

The whole "set up a gank" situation can work against any champ, and even less vs yasuo because he can use your jungler to dash. And this is of course if he plays top. If he plays mid , you are most likely a squishy mage, good luck then.

And i find the logic of "Go near the melle carry" quite funny, you do realize that he WANTS you to get close so that he could kill you?

yay nibbersDec 22, 20161 votes

Yes, because enemy minions spawn behind you right? Here's an idea: play a stronger melee champion than him. Pantheon for example, who works both top and mid. Beyond that there's other champs who do just fine getting in his face. Kayle, Annie, Gangplank, Kennen, all mid and all of them ruin his day. And there's even more in top lane.

Hell, even squishy mages can deal with him if they play well, without having to get in his face, lots with stuff that can't be windwall or can easily enough work around it. Swain, Vel'Koz, Viktor, Malzahar, Anivia. All of them make life tough for Yasuo at the very least.

Just for the sake of not leaving out top (currently played slightly more than mid): Rammus, Camille, Kayle, Renekton, Poppy, Wukong, Darius, and more are all tough matchups or straight up hard counters to Yasuo.

There are LOTS of champions that an deal with Yasuo. Tanks, fighters, mages (squishy and otherwise), there's a whole rainbow of champs you can play to kick Ysauo's ass.

By the way, "any champ" includes Yasuo. Camping someone is a valid way to shut them down.

Dextix LTDec 22, 20162 votes

Every champion can be countered and camped, that does not make them balanced or good for the game. Also, many of the champs you list wont do shit against a yasuo.

ph1234kDec 21, 20168 votes

While I hate his shield, without it he would need to be buffed because he would not be viable, he has a hard enough time in lane with the shield as it is.

J EpsteinDec 21, 201623 votes

Or yas players would just have to adapt their play style. just like every other champ who got reworked.

5000000000000000Dec 21, 201620 votes

I mean that's kinda the point of a small scale rework. Moving powers around.

48983507DEL1Dec 21, 20166 votes

Just give him MR per level and take away his shield. Him and Kassadin are the only melee champs without MR per level (not including Elise and Nid, who are also ranged), and that's because they have passives to compensate.

Fuck his toxic shield and give him the standard scaling MR.

Spicy RiceDec 21, 20163 votes

If they meant it to block magic damage, they would've made it a magic shield. It's a regular shield because his base stats and scalings on said stats are some of the worst in the game

OyddAWqJ5rDec 21, 20162 votes

Talon

NineTailedMysticDec 21, 20165 votes

Talon has in kit sustain now.

PROJECT KatarìnaDec 21, 20161 votes

Still not what he needs right now

JQKAndreiDec 22, 20161 votes

Take it away and he cannot lane.

PROJECT KatarìnaDec 22, 20161 votes

If he had higher base movespeed he wouldnt need the sustain

Big LincolnDec 21, 20167 votes

If you remove the shield passive (the one that you can disable with an auto and then hit him for free 1 second later) then he's going to get higher base HP and scaling MR. You know he doesn't have scaling MR?

I guarantee he'll be compensated generously for its loss. And you'll still complain because now instead of a short-duration shield, it's stats that are always there.

Riot should ignore everyone who has an 'idea' for reworking Yasuo.

Gnart Even CloseDec 21, 20166 votes

The shield actually serves a purpose in creating windows of power. It, along with his Windwall, are the only real cooldowns to play against. If anything, just increase the time it takes to refresh. It's healthier gameplay than the rest of his kit.

What should really be addressed is how he doesn't have enough cooldowns to play against. More of his power should be shifted out of his Q and E, or at the very least give them more meaningful cooldowns. Maybe put his E on a charge system or something. Right now, he can just shit out all of his damage and there's never a good time to fight him.

I Main SwainDec 21, 20163 votes

i feel like it doesnt fit his character, but at the same time he needs the tankiness from it. i think it should be removed but replaced with something more fitting to his character and kit. what that would be i dont know, but i do feel like it should be replaced.