As a mage player, Sorcery feels underwhelming for me.

warpenguin555··51 votes·14,460 views

When picking runes from Sorcery, I never feel good about it afterwards. For most mages, aery and comet are the same thing and Phase Rush isn't really an option. Honestly I don't feel like it matters if I pick aery or comet on most mages. They both do no damage after early game. I forget I even have a keystone once I'm grouping. The keystones are are boring and feel worthless to me.

Sorcerys second line is the only line I'm happy with. Mana flow band and ultimate hat are both good runes. I've had games where I felt like I messed up by taking MFB instead of Ultimate hat and vice versa. Nullifying orb is pretty good too but I wish it was useful against AD assassins.

The 3rd tree is just stats. I just go transcendence because I want CDR. I've used Cerelity and it's ok I guess. Lastly we have Absolute Focus which is an absolute waste of a rune slot. What mages actually want this? When is this rune useful? Seriously I want to know. I won't flame you for making a case for it.

As for the 4th line, I wouldn't miss any of the 3 if they got replaced. The only thing I like about this line is the early/mid/late dynamic it has. The biggest problem with these 3 is that there is nothing fun about them. Late game scaling probably shouldn't be a rune, Waterwalking isn't great because of how the game works. If you lose early you're going to spend all game shoved in and unable to get much use from it, and Scorch can't be good with out being abused by ranged top laners.

The worst part about the Sorcery tree is that even though it's supposed to have been designed for mages, the best users aren't even mages. Sion, Camille, and Miss Fortune get the best use out of arcane comet. Gnar and Jayce use Aery and scorch better than any non enchanter. Phase rush is barely used by mages at all.

The tree needs a serious rework. I would go as far as saying it's the worst tree to take for your primary.

62 Comments

Rainfall13 votes

"We wanted to limit Mage's ability to waveclear" //Riot releases a mastery system for mages that is literally just cooldown reductions and free mana. //Riot wonders why the waveclear problem got out of hand //Riot nerfs mage's mana scaling //Now you are even more forced to follow that shitty mastery tree We did it patrick we saved the city

Malix Farwin5 votes

{quoted}

"We wanted to limit Mage's ability to waveclear" //Riot releases a mastery system for mages that is literally just cooldown reductions and free mana. //Riot wonders why the waveclear problem got out of hand //Riot nerfs mage's mana scaling //Now you are even more forced to follow that shitty mastery tree We did it patrick we saved the city

Yup pretty much use it secondary for mana flow band.

AirKingNeo5 votes

You forget the start with Lost Chapter, a 900 gold item that gave a lot of mana and damage.

Then got worse because we gave it 10% CDR for 200 more gold (which is a huge buff)

Sad Tyrant2 votes

thats not as much of a buff as you think it is

AirKingNeo2 votes

10% CDR is worth way more than 200 gold, even in gold efficiency.

Sad Tyrant2 votes

its worth about 300 per 10% (Gold Efficiency wise)

AirKingNeo1 votes

so that's 100 more gold value than the cost difference added.

Votable Jester1 votes

In the laning phase when it's just 1v1, CDR often isn't quite so important.

AirKingNeo1 votes

being able to use an ability twice per wave lets you clear the wave faster.

Votable Jester1 votes

Having the AP to clear the wave with fewer abilities saves both mana and time.

You have to take into account the opportunity cost of the stat in question. A bit more AP at that point would add more pressure than a slightly reduced cooldown when you're still at least slightly limited by your mana pool.

Jbels6 votes

I wonder what's stopping people from going Eletrocute. It's a pretty decent alternative if you're playing a mage that just shits out all 4 abilities to kill somebody

Step Sis Lux1 votes

Because when u have eletrocute u have to pick sore as your 2 rune, but when u have Sorcerery as main rune u can take every other rune

warpenguin5551 votes

The cool down is what scares me off a bit, but more people seem to be picking it so I might give it a try.

Furious Delisha1 votes

I don't take it because if i miss one ability there is a high chance i don't proc it at all, and lose a major chunk of my damage. Probably my fault, but that how it be

LightIsMyPath8 votes

Because literally all the rest of the tree feels sub par on almost every mage. I would totally go electrocute.. If it was in sorcery tree.

AirKingNeo2 votes

Take the healing rune, zombie ward, and the last slot you'd probably take the MS for roaming.

LightIsMyPath1 votes
  • Healing rune is useless on Zoe mages (healing is cut at like 30% on aoe), zombie is fine but I don't really impact vision that much for it to be particularly useful (besides 2yellow charges and a control I have nothing going for me ). The only one I don't consider ultra bad is mov speed one.. But if you plan on roaming sorcery has celerity +waterwalking
Wolfeur3 votes

Cheap Shot: abuse your range against melee opponents -OR- Taste of Blood: for lane sustain Ghost Poro: you're vulnerable to ganks, free wards are welcome -OR- Eyeball Collection: for snowball effect Ravenous Hunter: more sustain, gives your survivability -OR- Relentless Hunter: better rotation, roaming and lane shoving.

Replace one with Ultimate Hat as it's gonna move to Domination

LightIsMyPath1 votes

Healing runes are out of question: Healing is hard halved on aoe and every single spell I fire is aoe. I've tried Poro but I didn't really feel it impactful like I thought. I can't efficiently stack eyeball on non-supports (or junglers).. I can't see me picking a red trinket and staying blind. Cheap shot seems good on paper but it does pityful damage . Also if I really want to ABUSE meelees I gotta go Aery to use my ranged autos. Relentless hunter is the only one I don't mind taking, but it's competing with celerity and waterwalking in roam territory

Wolfeur3 votes

Fair enough, but I do have some things to respond

I accept the problem for ravenous hunter, but taste of blood is a cooldown-gated healing that doesn't care about AoE.

I'll agree that Cheap Shot deals less damage than Aery, but Aery takes a keystone slot. With Cheap Shot, you can access Electrocute. Of course, taking domination is a bit of a gamble, you're trading mana sustain and poke for better damage lategame. Also, you still have access to Sorcery as secondary, if you want Manaflow and/or Transcendance, so the trade-off is not that big.

I feel like people forget that you can access Sorcery runes as their secondary tree.

Ghost Poro can give you a lot of satefy if you use it right, and it often feels useless but it's far from being the case.

So yeah, I'm sure you can get a solid rune page with D/S, for Burst Mages.

LightIsMyPath1 votes

O.o didn't know taste of blood wasn't affected by aoe reduction. Cheap shot imho is competing more with scorch than aery but in meelee matchups specifically I probably would go aery anyway. Btw as we were speaking hat is getting moved into domination so it seems finally there is something good to take for mages.

Wolfeur1 votes

Taste of Blood is a fixed amount scaling on level, and with a cooldown. Think Scorch, but with healing instead of damage.

And yeah, I know about Ultimate Hat, I said that in my previous message:

Replace one with Ultimate Hat as it's gonna move to Domination

FrostQueensPlane4 votes
  1. the lesser runes are garbage

  2. electrocute has a long cooldown, it's meant for people who can abuse all ins, mages don't play like this

Wolfeur2 votes
  1. electrocute has a long cooldown, it's meant for people who can abuse all ins, mages don't play like this

Literally half the mages are burst-oriented, what is your point? Tell me how an Annie, a Veigar, a Lux or a Zoe wouldn't like Electrocute.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

All mages by nature can burst. The ones that you mentioned are dedicated burst mages. Mages like ziggs, velkoz, xerath or viktor cant really make full use of electro.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

They are also the mages that didn't take Thunderlord's in the old system. Who would have guessed.

BrokenRayquaza1 votes

{quoted}

Literally half the mages are burst-oriented, what is your point? Tell me how an Annie, a Veigar, a Lux or a Zoe wouldn't like Electrocute.

Lux, Annie, and Vei can all proc electrocute. But for those alot prefer more poke rather than more damage all around for laning. Zoe however cannot proc electrocute

SwiftKitten886 votes

yeah sorcery are a joke as well as the keystones it has. especoally when u compare it to the things in the precision tree which is completely overloaded as fuck, with the most broken things in the game, fleet footwork, triumph, conqueror, soon to be hail of blades, press the attack, and coup de grace, as well as cut down.

its a complete joke how weak sorcery is compared to it.

koshkyra1 votes

{quoted}

yeah sorcery are a joke as well as the keystones it has. especoally when u compare it to the things in the precision tree which is completely overloaded as fuck, with the most broken things in the game, fleet footwork, triumph, conqueror, soon to be hail of blades, press the attack, and coup de grace, as well as cut down.

its a complete joke how weak sorcery is compared to it.

This is the truth. I dont know why someone downvoted you

My Waifu Vanilla3 votes

Because hail of blades isn't in precision? I mean if you are going to complain about something at least get your facts straight.

Zed genius5 votes

The worst part about the Sorcery tree is that even though it's supposed to have been designed for mages,

That's a lie, the damage from aery and comet is adaptive and has AD scalings as well, while phase rush does no damage so anyone can use it. Also taking primary sorcery gives either ad or ap, if it was a mage tree it would only give ap

Votable Jester18 votes

That's because they wanted all trees to be available for anyone to use. The name of the tree is still SORCERY (aka magic shit).

Danjeng14 votes

Yeah but then you got the precision tree.

Votable Jester1 votes

Yeah I'm still quite annoyed that they did that.

Warlord Rhinark5 votes

Honestly, precision should either give Attack Speed or CDR adaptive.

AD = Attack Speed.

AP = Cooldown Reduction.

Alternatively we can change it to either Armor Pen/Magic Pen adaptive.

It is called "Precision" after all so you would think it would give some kind of penetration.

Wolfeur3 votes

Because it's the spellcasting tree. Not specifically for mages, but for casters in general

Reaper55994 votes

As a part time mage player (Used to be my favourite class until I fell in love with bruisers), I Kindof want to get this off my chest and give my opinion on each rune in socery and see if anyone agrees and potentially start a Civil discussion.

Okay here we go:

Keystones:

Comet: While this rune does have a lot going for it, it can feel pretty meh at some points only really used in lane for some extra poke, but after that, it just kindof becomes non existent to me, Its damage isn't super passed lane and the chance of it hitting with all the chaos occurring in a team fight is low, making it feel kindof awkward to use.

Aery: This one is actually my favourite of the keystones in socery, since it can be used as an aggressive poke tool and a defense tool. Unfortunately I hate to see it being overused by lane bullies, I get that its can be a constant source of extra poke, but it's really intended to be a support rune, it can also feel kindof wired to only get half the use out of it as a lane bully, knowing that there are other runes you could take and get the full effect from it.

Phase rush: And then we come to this rune...oh boy...its fun in some cases I will admit (Kench) but other then being a Niche rune, it has nothing much else going for it, the only champions that I really see use it are Sol and Cass, Sol mainly because he can't until other runes as well and Cass because its extremely easy to proc and she benefits from having such high speed. But other former users like Darius have stopped using it, Darius mainly because the release of conquerer.

Tier 1:

Nullifying orb: This rune, my god this rune, why does it exist? It feels like a rune only assassins would take to increase their hexdrinker prowess, and not much else, whenever I take it, I never really feel it have any effect at all, And In my opinion it should have been taken out for this Nimbus cloak and not ultimate hat.

Manaflow band: This ones a bit of a mixed bag, On release, I despised it, I always wanted to take ultimate hat, but never could since Manaflow was much better and borderline mandatory if you went sorcery primary, but now I don't mind it, It feels nice to have an extra chunk of mana, but not too much, also the region is quiet noticeable and is extremely helpful early on, still feel like it has priority over ultimate hat in most cases though.

Ultimate hat (Rip): Rest in peace my sweet prince, this rune was my favourite in the tree and my second favourite rune overall (First place is overgrowth if anyone cares), it was so much fun to have 60% ultimate cd, and be able to use Kassadin ult every second, it is a delight, and I'm sad to see it go.

Nimbus cloak: I feel like this is going to be a beta Phase rush, only really used on Sol and Cass, maybe champions with gap closer ults could grab it, but other then that, it feels like it won't be very impressive, oh well, we will see.

Tier 2:

Transcendence: Similar to release manaflow, I feel like it takes priority over other runes in this tier, but I Don't despise it as much, since It allows me to build some items I wouldn't If i didn't use this rune (Example, I can get Ludens, Banshees, Archangels and hourglass on MAlz, which normally I would have excess cdr), But I still don't like it as much as some of my favroites because it feels too mandatory.

Celerity (Or as We call it Celery): Like phase rush and nimbus cloak, it feels niche and only taken if the champion has a movement speed up or steroid, the 3% Extra move speed is nice though I guess? I honestly don't have much to say about this rune.

Absolute focus: What, like, who uses this? I totally agree with Op here, unless you're Zed or Talon and feel like you can get super fed and want a little extra 1 shot power, but then again, you still lose it if you take too much damage, and it dosent take much to drop a squishy like Zed or Talon below 70% hp, Also, why take it when you could take the other two and get just as much Ad or Ap from transcendence or more chase power from celery.

Tier 3:

Scorch: I really couldn't care less about this rune, its bland, non interactive and only used to amp early poke, I never use it, even on lane bullies, the only time i do use it is in aram because Gathering storm is shit there and Waterwalking lul.

Waterwalking: That being said, I don't see this rune very often, not that I think its a bad rune, Its just highly outclassed by the other two, why get bonuses only when you're in the river when you can take gathering storm and have more bonuses later on.

Gathering storm: I like this one, but I also like to build for late game, connect the dots and it makes sense why I like this rune.

Final Verdict: Keystones definitely need work, I would say to move aery to inspiration and replace it, Phase rush needs a straight buff to push it towards battlemages, and comet needs a hit to its early, but a buff to its late. Power needs to be shifted around with all the tier runes as the feel like they are mandatory or they feel like you just flat out would never take them, Also please don't remove my precious child (Ultimate hat)

Thats all, I know, an essay, but its no different from the 16 page one I have to write (Funtime.png)

EDIT: I didn't do enough research in terms of ultimate hat, apparently its not gone, just going to get move to domination, and while I don't agree with that choice, Im just happy its not entirely gone.

Selegun3 votes

Absolute focus feels good on champs that don't need to get close to dump their damage like Xereth and Ziggs. An argument could also be made for mages that focus on abilities with healing and spellvamp though sources for those are few and far between.

warpenguin5551 votes

That makes sense. I don't position well so maybe that's why I don't good use from it. Thanks!

Selegun1 votes

Yeah, I have troubles with my positioning too. If you can get some friends to play meatshield or something with a good shield to block hits you should see more damage from it.

Ryrynounet1 votes

but does it is worth to get a man to be a "meatshield" only to be able to have the full use of a tier 2 rune ?

Selegun2 votes

A fair point, it will boil down to how comfortable you are trading blows and avoiding damage. As Xereth, for instance, I'm about 90ish % positive I will have that threshold of HP when I start/join a fight and will be leaving when I am lower than that because I'm not ment to take the hits.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

It's really good on Rumble. You are pretty healthy in lane if you know how to use W and can keep 70% fairly easily. Also gives a bit of oomf to your ult later on since you SHOULD be starting fights near full health anyway.

Selegun1 votes

Have not played Rumble in a very long time lol. I'll have to take a look at that sometime, thanks!

Malix Farwin2 votes

I don't even run sorc main on my main mages because its that underwhelming. Domination is much better

FilDaFunk2 votes

You raised a good point about nullifying orb. It's in the sorcery tree, but helps against mages.

53012 votes

Absolute Focus which is an absolute waste of a rune slot. What mages actually want this? When is this rune useful?

It's not for mages. When riot said that they didn't want a class of champions to have their specific set of runes and that they wanted many classes to be able to dip into many different options, this is what they meant. On carry junglers looking to invade, this rune is pretty good since Rek'Sai or Kha'Zix with an extra 3 AD is pretty good. However, by going this you give up celerity which sucks, but you want to 1v9 the game with this. With the movespeed package in sorcery, you just want to rotate faster.

TLDR: you want to cheese early game

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

The only change I would personally make is switch water walking with transcendence positions. That and rework or at add another keystone to the sorcery tree.

Malix Farwin3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Oakleaf Ranger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PGHKcoAV,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-05-07T23:02:33.623+0000)

The only change I would personally make is switch water walking with transcendence positions. That and rework or at add another keystone to the sorcery tree.

imo water walking should be replaced.

XeroKimo1 votes

I personally like using absolute focus on long ranged mages, or mages with a really safe playstyle, you get free ap or ad instantly compared to the other 2 runes, and it's potential total stats is equal to having 20% overcapped cdr with transcendence.

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