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Riot wanting to make Mordekaiser build hybrid's actually a great idea

Malicious Metal··39 votes·4,378 views

Preface Take all this with a grain of salt even though there's enough of it already in League. I not be as objective as I should since I started using HybridKaiser ever since patch 5.16 hit. I've adapted to utilize it to its full potential since it suits my play style but Morde builds are really versatile since he got reworked, you're bound to have your own favorite build. I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on the matter though so don't hesitate to comment and discuss.

Anyways, back to business.

Thematic aspect Who is Mordekaiser? He's an undead warlord who utilizes necromantic powers and his ensorcelled mace Nightfall to command and conquer. He's not a simple warrior like Darius nor a Lich mage like Karthus. He doesn't rely on a single style of combat, he crushes your bones with his heavy weapons and yet he drains your life essence with his unholy presence. He is a HYBRID in the truest sense, he's a Dark lord.

Thematically speaking Morde fits the bill of a warrior versed in both the arcane and its of war.

Build options/Diversity There have been many hybrid champions in the past yet most of them often rely on ONE single stat, be it AP or AD. Yet Mordekaiser is a true Hybrid due to him benefitting from both stats immensely without having to build death cap for increased AP or IE for greater critical strikes. This opens him up to build virtually anything, an endless armory of his own. He can build things like item 3146 or item 3124 as well as item 3157 and item 3285 or item 3748 and item 3053 He can adapt his build depending on the situation and personal preference without gimping himself. He does not need to decide wether to go full ad or ap since his damage isn't bound to one stat alone.

Burst VS Sustained threat VS Durability We all know those pesky assassins jumping on you and ripping you a new bum hole. Now picture them being really damn durable. Nightmares aside, burst coupled with Durability is NOT a healthy mechanic yet on Juggernauts it's actually somewhat balanced due to them having to ramp up, anyways. Burst Mordekaiser either blows you up without giving you any way to retaliate or.... he doesn't. Simple, it's like Rengar. DPS Mordekaiser has the problem of having his damage bound to being melee range, making for not so great gameplay patterns.

Hybrid Mordekaiser has the best of both worlds. He has DPS due to building at least some AD, yet he also has decent burst to kick squishy butts. He's not feast or famine like full AP and not a sitting duck like full AD

Iron Man and Morde Iron Man's a pretty damn good passive. It converts a percentage of the damage dealt into a temporary shield. Now then, if you hit hard you get a shield, aye? If you got burst you'll never even see your health being scratched, which makes for pretty frustrating scenarios for the enemy.

Hybrid Mordekaiser on the other hand constantly builds up shield, thriving in extended fights rather than BOOOOOM->Burst->DEAD scenarios, being able to sustain his shield while giving his enemies more counterplay other than seeing their ADC get poofed into the afterlife and come back to haunt them without them being able to do ANYTHING against it.

It's healthier for the game Mordekaiser always treads the thin line between being obnoxiously unhealthy or utterly garbage. He had a low CD 250 base damage nuke which was essentially free as well as having a 800 range % Max HP nuke. He was veigar in a metal suit who got really damn hard to kill by simply building damage. It wasn't fun to play against this kind of Morde, a burst assassin (kinda) that you just couldn't kill. New Mordekaiser is less of a pain to deal with, mostly due to his damage being DPS oriented, making him generate shield consistently instead of burst. Him being a Hybrid DPS threat gives him this perfect mix of damage, shield, burst, dps and survivability without making for really iunfun scenarios when he's ungodly fed.

This doesn't mean AP Morde should be removed. He's a fun alternative build if you want to mess around but riot keeping it down is a good call to allow Mordekaiser to be a healthy Juggernaut instead of a cheesy burst mage who's too hellish to balance.

All in all we can agree that with the recent changes we'll see Mordekaiser crawl back into viability. He's getting there, heck, he's actually really damn close to being a great pick again. It's the simple QoL and small buffs that smoothen him out that really make a difference. He's this unrefined diamond, with a bit more work he'll be truly outrageous.

~M.M

http://pre14.deviantart.net/593e/th/pre/f/2013/237/d/8/gunblade_by_masstronaut-d6jmf41.png

29 Comments

Lord Boltrix8 votes

I feel what they need to do is take Mace of Spades, and have it do hybrid damage.

Hear me out.

Mace of Spades scales off of both AD and AP, so have it where Mace of Spades's empowered auto-attacks deals bonus physical damage scaling off AD, and bonus magic damage scaling off AP, simple and sweet.

Now all we need to do after that is take off that bonus experience on Mordekaiser's W, replace it with something viable and fitting... like armor and magic resist that scales off Mordekaiser's own resistances. That benefits Mordekaiser in a single and duo lane since healing and resistances on Mordekaiser combined with his support can just bulwark a bot lane. Maybe reduce the AP scaling on W and introduce AD scaling, then we'd have a truly hybrid Morderkaiser that works, and we could actually call the Mordekaiser rework a success after so many hurdles and pitfalls.

Of course if we wanted to be utter trolls, we could say something like have health and/or armor + magic resist instead increase W's damage rather than AP so some people can just go full tank Mordekaiser. That way, we could shoe-horn some insane and unnecessary thing like having Mace of Spades crit for modified damage and having Mordekaiser get double critical strike chance from CDR, and have him be like some weird magic-Nasus who builds full tank but still does insane damage.

Kingsgrave1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Boltrix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OyKdpmIF,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-01-15T01:20:20.641+0000)

I feel what they need to do is take Mace of Spades, and have it do hybrid damage.

Hear me out.

Mace of Spades scales off of both AD and AP, so have it where Mace of Spades's empowered auto-attacks deals bonus physical damage scaling off AD, and bonus magic damage scaling off AP, simple and sweet.

Now all we need to do after that is take off that bonus experience on Mordekaiser's W, replace it with something viable and fitting... like armor and magic resist that scales off Mordekaiser's own resistances. That benefits Mordekaiser in a single and duo lane since healing and resistances on Mordekaiser combined with his support can just bulwark a bot lane. Maybe reduce the AP scaling on W and introduce AD scaling, then we'd have a truly hybrid Morderkaiser that works, and we could actually call the Mordekaiser rework a success after so many hurdles and pitfalls.

Of course if we wanted to be utter trolls, we could say something like have health and/or armor + magic resist instead increase W's damage rather than AP so some people can just go full tank Mordekaiser, then we could shoe-horn some insane and unnecessary thing like having Mace of Spades crit for modified damage and having Mordekaiser get double critical strike chance from CDR and have him be like some weird magic-Nasus who builds full tank but still does insane damage.

It would be pretty interesting if the AD scaling portions of both Q and E did Physical damage while the AP and Base still did Magic.

junglerboy161 votes

I'd actually argue for the AP damage being physical and the AD damage being magical, that way he is guaranteed to stay hybrid, rather than dealing consistently more of one or the other and having his build flip flop between full AD and full AP.

ExiledTyrant4 votes

Hybridization still doesn't solve Morde's problem vs high health/high resistance targets that he is forced to engage with as a front liner. If he was given a way to deal high physical damage and high magical damage like Jax and Kayle he would truly be able to benefit from hybrid itemization. Right now hybrid items make it easier to kill objectives and soft targets while reducing his overall budget for durability or magic pen.

His lack of CDR itemization is also getting in the way of his sustained damage direction. 4-10 seconds down time on Q ( with 3-4 seconds to execute in between), and 5-12 second downtime on E and W are really noticeable. He either needs Eve like cooldowns, better CDR options, or lingering damage put on his kit to help fulfill that sustained damage fantasy. With Morde's poor up time it may be better if larger potion of his damage was a DOT after he hit a target. The spacing out of attacks wouldn't feel so bad at least. Right now it still feels like I'm racing to blow all my abilities.

BastionKross4 votes

I believe these two are the main problems as well. Morde's kit is just full of magic damage, with physical damage coming from his autos. I'm pretty sure ghosts and dragon ghosts do magic damage as well. If Q or E did physical damage instead of magic damage, his kit would have a decent amount of hybrid damage and be a bigger threat toward tanks and bruisers that are focusing on only one type of resist. This would be a buff, so numbers might need to be changed to even things back out.

Secondly his itemization leaves very little room for CDR, which is key for sustained damage from a champion not building much attack speed. Ideally you could grab item 3158 item 3065 item 3152 for 30%. Then you're left with a who's who of lame items to get that last bit: item 3060 item 3056 item 3190.

If Morde's kit was changed to deal more physical damage, that would open him up to building item 3071, which would solve both problems.

YumaS2Astral2 votes

{quoted}

I believe these two are the main problems as well. Morde's kit is just full of magic damage, with physical damage coming from his autos. I'm pretty sure ghosts and dragon ghosts do magic damage as well. If Q or E did physical damage instead of magic damage, his kit would have a decent amount of hybrid damage and be a bigger threat toward tanks and bruisers that are focusing on only one type of resist. This would be a buff, so numbers might need to be changed to even things back out.

Secondly his itemization leaves very little room for CDR, which is key for sustained damage from a champion not building much attack speed. Ideally you could grab item 3158 item 3065 item 3152 for 30%. Then you're left with a who's who of lame items to get that last bit: item 3060 item 3056 item 3190.

If Morde's kit was changed to deal more physical damage, that would open him up to building item 3071, which would solve both problems.

An option to partially solve this problem is using CDR runes.

Maximum Morde2 votes

I'm personally not a huge fan of hybrid or AD Mordekaiser because his sticking power just isn't reliable enough for me to leverage the increased AD. I find I can often drop my burst combo then I might get CC'd out of melee range or the enemy will use some kind of mobility to escape my range. The exception to this is Melee champions who want to fight me heads on so they come to me.

I actually feel the exact opposite when you say he is feast or famine as AP. I feel like you have to feast to actually get somewhere trying to rush the hybrid items like Gunblade, Trinity, Steraks, etc, because the power spikes their components provide just aren't as strong as what you'd get from the subcomponents of bruiser AP items. I feel like Gunblade is something I buy when I'm stomping or late game, not during a typical game, especially if I'm playing him Bot where I need those power spikes to effectively keep the enemy marksman under my thumb and maintain control of the Dragon area. I tend to build an AP Bruiser Mordekaiser instead because the AP helps my entire combo, not just my Q/E, tends to work out to higher burst combo damage, and the AP itemization tends to have better defense/offense hybrid options available like Rylais, Liandries, Abyssal, Zhonyas, and I tend to like the earlier power spike from completing subcomponent AP items vs subcomponent AD items. For instance, I don't feel like I gain much out of finishing a Cutlass.

That said, you are 100% correct when you said he has many available options. What works for me may not work for others because we don't all play with the same style, and you will almost certainly have more ability to destroy an objective with Hybrid Morde as opposed to AP. I don't mind Riot adding more options when it comes to ways to play Mordekaiser at all. I'll cry myself manly molten iron tears if they destroy the ability to build AP and be sucessful though.

Kingsgrave2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OyKdpmIF,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-01-15T00:31:55.961+0000)

I'm personally not a huge fan of hybrid or AD Mordekaiser because his sticking power just isn't reliable enough for me to leverage the increased AD. I find I can often drop my burst combo then I might get CC'd out of melee range or the enemy will use some kind of mobility to escape my range. The exception to this is Melee champions who want to fight me heads on so they come to me.

I actually feel the exact opposite when you say he is feast or famine as AP. I feel like you have to feast to actually get somewhere trying to rush the hybrid items like Gunblade, Trinity, Steraks, etc, because the power spikes their components provide just aren't as strong as what you'd get from the subcomponents of bruiser AP items. I feel like Gunblade is something I buy when I'm stomping or late game, not during a typical game, especially if I'm playing him Bot where I need those power spikes to effectively keep the enemy marksman under my thumb and maintain control of the Dragon area. I tend to build an AP Bruiser Mordekaiser instead because the AP helps my entire combo, not just my Q/E, tends to work out to higher burst combo damage, and the AP itemization tends to have better defense/offense hybrid options available like Rylais, Liandries, Abyssal, Zhonyas, and I tend to like the earlier power spike from completing subcomponent AP items vs subcomponent AD items. For instance, I don't feel like I gain much out of finishing a Cutlass.

That said, you are 100% correct when you said he has many available options. What works for me may not work for others because we don't all play with the same style, and you will almost certainly have more ability to destroy an objective with Hybrid Morde as opposed to AP. I don't mind Riot adding more options when it comes to ways to play Mordekaiser at all. I'll cry myself manly molten iron tears if they destroy the ability to build AP and be sucessful though.

item 3071 with a Physical E and Q solves a lot of his issues of having reduced sticking power, especially when combined with item 3116

Kingsgrave2 votes

Make his Q and E physical damage and he will be able to better build hybrid.

item 3071 item 3116 may look weird together but he would love this combo

Black Cleaver solves so many of his problems, its insane. CDR is fantastic for him and so is the Rage passive combined with Rylais, giving him real stickyness and mobility options in teamfights. Also gives him more utility.

item 3146 item 3812 is a very awesome combination that he could do if QE were Physical.

item 3156 item 3116 rush in Mid would be decently effective vs most mages and give him an awesome amount of damage and survivability, especially considering that Mordekaiser would love the Maw passive Spellvamp.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

your probably better off building him AD. 2-3 damage items and rest tanky.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

I had no problem with him building a mixture of AD and AP. Even before his rework, I was playing him as an AP bruiser rather than a burst mage.

I had an issue with him being forced into the bottom lane and having a gimmicky passive added to his ultimate.

Malicious Metal2 votes

Heyy, I played him AP bruiser as well! :D

Yeah, thankfully this issue has been solved.

Satanstein1 votes

Because people playing a massive dude in an iron suit of armor and a mace totally wanna babysit the ADC for 20 minutes.

EndlessSorcerer4 votes

Mordekaiser wasn't a support after the rework.

Mordekaiser replaced the ADC and HAD a support.

If he was a support, the passive on his W would make absolutely no sense.

Terff1 votes

The only problem with hybrid morde that I see is that his physical damage doesn't convert to a shield so the more you put into AD the less useful his shield becomes, I guess this is somewhat negated since most of the durability from the shield that he's losing he's gaining back from the tanky stats on the AD items he likes. Still I wouldn't mind some shield gain on auto attacks outside of Q.

Malicious Metal1 votes

His Q/E/R technically grant him shield based on his AD^^

Baron of Bread1 votes

Well, new patch with Morde changes means another try at seeing if he is fun again. With this post I will march into the coming battle with high hopes.

Malicious Metal1 votes

Just a quick tip, Get your Harvester at level two to powerpush the enemy laner into his tower.

jmaishere1 votes

I think over the various seasons, there's been many reasons why no one goes completely hybrid... not even Kayle or Jax

UTIDAWA1 votes

Hey malicious I've been trying to find a morde build I like and since you are the most knowledgeable person about Morde I was wondering what you think about starting Ruby crystal, sit on revolver first back, and rush either titanic or rylais after that?

Auryiel1 votes

I guess I just don't see what's so damn hard about making Morde build full AP and not be bursty as hell

It's easy, really... Make his ult a complete dot instead of the old 50-50 deal (they're creeping in that direction now anyway, why not go all the way? The clutch shield and heal are almost gone now, make it a true threat over time). Could even up the damage a little with that. Lower his E's base, AP ratio, shield generated on champions, decrease its CD and cost. 1 E = less damage. 2 or more Es = more damage. Only thing that could be bad about this I suppose is that it makes it harder to trade in lane and very short encounters. But his laning experience could be improved by simply buffing his abysmal base stats and he's not supposed to do well in super short engages. His W is already a DPS spell and his Q's damage has been taken away from the ridiculous 1 shot 3rd hit and put back into the first two hits.

He's already encouraged to build Rylai's and Liandry's because of his passive. The slow on Rylai's is really good for him too, it works like a reverse Deadman's Plate for Darius and Garen. The burn on Liandry's makes him a threat against high HP dudes and the pen makes him dangerous against squishies.

Then you can choose to go for stuff like Gunblade, WotA, Abyssal, Zhonya's for a mix of damage and tankyness or straight up tank items if he wants tankyness. You can also go for Void, Luden's or other classic items for more damage (still not super bursty if his kit is not bursty on its own, even with Lich Bane for example).

I'm not saying Morde needs to be encouraged to build pure AP or that a hybrid build is bad, but I don't see what's inherently wrong with making Morde an AP champ. Yes, his mace does say ''I'm gonna smack you, fool'' but that's what his Q is there for. Hell, you could even buy a Nashor's Tooth! Gives you more DPS, helps you get your Q off faster and gives you a whopping 20% CDR along with a big chunk of AP. I just feel like the whole ''He shouldn't be AP'' thing mostly stems from a lack of trying to make Morde work with an actual build. Instead of tweeking him to make his builds smoother, you're stuck trying to weirdly optimize a champion whose kit's scaling is wonky on purpose for reasons I can't fathom. IMO AP itemization has (almost) everything Morde could want and there are plenty of different AP items to encourage build diversity.

Samflash31 votes

Question: How would you build against Hybrid Mordekaiser?

Kingsgrave2 votes

{quoted}

Question: How would you build against Hybrid Mordekaiser?

The same way you build against Kayle and Jax.

TDubH1 votes

Building "Kill you first" is not a viable option of GuntherPlay, Hue_Hue

TheSeltzerBaron1 votes

I liked Morde before and after the rework but not after the juggernaut update. I feel like he's just another generic tank; instead of being good at AD or AP he's mediocre at both. EZ is a good example of a champ that can do AD or AP well.

Blue Moon Wolf1 votes

I think my favorite build on Morde would be item 3124 item 3742 item 3512 item 3151 item 1307 item 3001. I am thinking of trying some more Hybrid like builds, but I love my defensive items too much to get rid of them :(

Hawkefire1 votes

My one and only issue with making Morde more hybrid is partly due to the lack of support that hybrids traditionally get. I will readily admit that it definitely isn't as bad as it used to be, but it still isn't exactly the best.

Solaxo1 votes

Morde doesn't have necromantic powers though. He's a metallimancer

Paress1 votes

I've actually found full AP version much more useful ..

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