Why do Mages get stuck with 4 movement speed runes?

Dope Solo·May 8, 2018·106 votes·18,847 views

When the Sorcery tree is supposed to be for "Empowered abilites" and "resource manipulation"???

Why does precision get 4 Keystones, when the other trees have 3?

121 Comments

Malevolent MetalMay 9, 201877 votes

So they can run away from the soon to be untouchable AD champions.

SaiannaMay 9, 201812 votes

Are ADCs touchable now, though? They are like demigods among simple folk since 2-3 years...

CasterGilgameshMay 9, 20182 votes

adcs have been gods since the start of this game its only now that its gotten so bad that its noticeable

SaiannaMay 9, 20183 votes

Well I'd say they were pretty balanced till S3. They were used as a ruler to check if other class isn't too strong.

Malicious MetalMay 9, 201821 votes

Or so we SnailKaisers get to chase after the AD champions for good clones.

CasterGilgameshMay 9, 20181 votes

with how much CC is in the game how?

DrugothMay 10, 20182 votes

No one said it was gonna be easy lol

FrostQueensPlaneMay 8, 201855 votes

funny because most mages can't proc phase rush OR nimble well

what a time to be alive

Dope SoloMay 9, 201840 votes

Contrast phase rush to fleet footwork, what the shit riot?

DeusVultMay 9, 20187 votes

Fleet is getting nerfed and Phase Rush is getting buffed, but it didnt make sense for so long that fleet gave MORE MS (30% for 1 second compared to 15-30% for 3 seconds) while being easier to proc and you could effectively get 2 FF procs while kiting before Phase Rush came off of CD.

CasterGilgameshMay 9, 20184 votes

fleet is nerfed early but has the same movement speed late though also fleet is still easy to proc and still heals giving a decent amount of in lane sustain

AnateraMay 9, 201833 votes

Because no one at Riot plays mages, so logically, they can't have any issues. If a developer doesn't see or experience a problem, then it obviously does't exist.

Starcraft243verMay 9, 20185 votes

Because developpers are totaly responsible for game balancing.

Oh, they also do the artworks, and cook the company lunch.

AnateraMay 9, 201811 votes

{quoted}

Because developpers are totaly responsible for game balancing.

Oh, they also do the artworks, and cook the company lunch.

That's not what I said, but thanks for trying.

Starcraft243verMay 9, 20185 votes

You also told noone plays mages at riot's which is obviously a lie. But I can't point out every single fallacy in your post.

AnateraMay 9, 201813 votes

{quoted}

You also told noone plays mages at riot's which is obviously a lie. But I can't point out every single fallacy in your post.

You can't seem to point out yours either.

Kosm1KMay 9, 201819 votes

domination is gonna have 4 keystones soon too. Sorcery is the worst tree, easily, Heck i use it on talon just for those ms boosting ones to make me a roaming nightmare

GrReaper96May 9, 20182 votes

Actually nimble with Talon is really good...

AirKingNeoMay 10, 20181 votes

"Sorcery is the worst tree"

meanwhile resolve and sorcery are most taken trees

Kosm1KMay 10, 20182 votes

alright correction, the sorcery keystones are the worst, pretty worthless compared to every other keystone

MicronovaMay 9, 201818 votes

Waterwalking is basically a complete joke of a rune that I'm pretty sure nobody uses.

HaIlMonitorMay 9, 20184 votes

Its going to be very good with the jungle changes when people duel in the river over the crab.

RyusaetherMay 9, 201810 votes

Isn't it good for jgl in general and on some roaming champs AurelionSol ?

Banbutsu SozoMay 9, 20183 votes

Yeah it's good on ASol. That's what the top challenger ASol in NA uses atm. xD

Warlord RhinarkMay 9, 20184 votes

Laughs in Hecarim

Banbutsu SozoMay 9, 20183 votes

Wut.

I use waterwalking on Nidalee o.O

Nidalee

TerozuMay 9, 20188 votes

Waterwalking is also good for supports who need to ward mahor objectives.

SwiftKitten88May 9, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Waterwalking is basically a complete joke of a rune that I'm pretty sure nobody uses.

thats entirely not true, i mean im sure it sucks for laners, but it is very nice for ap junglers such as Nidalee

Slythrin UmbreonMay 9, 201812 votes

To be fair, I feel like they intend for all the trees to eventually have 4 keystones, the precision one just got rushed because Runes were originally even worse for bruisers then they were for mages.

EvilMoustacheManMay 9, 20189 votes

Because the sorcery tree belongs to Swain now muahahahahahahaha.

TerozuMay 9, 20182 votes

I laughed way to hard at this.

FixHealsRemoveGWMay 9, 20189 votes

Sorcery is not a mage tree, any champion can use it. You are just showing that you don't understand the game.

Handy Sandy May 9, 201812 votes

{quoted}

Sorcery is not a mage tree, any champion can use it. You are just showing that you don't understand the game.

It's literally called sorcery, it was built with the intent for mages to use it. If you pick a mage and don't have runes the client will automatically make you take the sorcery tree.

it's meant to be like this with a few exceptions of course since all champions aren't the same: ADCs have Precision Tanks have Resolve Assassins have Domination Supports have Inspiration Mages have Sorcery ...get it?

They're the only class in the game that doesn't have runes that fit their needs. Every rune except for maybe manaflow feels terrible and has little impact compared to runes from other trees like electrocute or footwork.

FixHealsRemoveGWMay 9, 201811 votes

So just because of the name you ignore the adaptive stats and the fact that this tree gives effects that are usefull for many picks?

Aery is used by supports mostly, but it also a popular early game bully keystone (summon aery teemo for example but also summon aery jayce). Comet is also a popular keystone for early game power used by Camille or Sion for example. Phase Rush gives you speed and stickiness and is often used by champions that have enough base damage and just need mobility, for example Xin Zhao with Phase Rush has become more popular recently. None of the Keystones is used or made strictly for mages.

Celerity and Waterwalking is extremely popular among all kinds of junglers. Scorch again is just early game power and doesn't scale with AP.

Transcendence, Absolute Focus, Celerity, Gathering Storm give adaptive stats, which means if you build AD you will gain bonus AD Manaflow Band and Ultimate Hat bensfit all champions that have mana and an ultimate ability which again is not restricted to mages.

Nullifying Orb, Aery and Comet also have an AD ratio (why would they have an AD raiot if they are intended only for mages? lul)

So you ignore absolutely everything about the actual runes **and you just look at the name "sorcery" and you are like **

It's literally called sorcery, it was built with the intent for mages to use it.

This really makes me angry, I don't understand how a person can be so narrow-minded.

AzadetheMay 9, 201812 votes

What you're failing to understand is.... the OTHER trees are narrowly designed.

Precision until recently was auto attacker exclusive. It mostly still is. Even Conquerer is not adaptive and mainly restricted to melee champs.

Resolve is still pretty much a skirmisher/tank tree. It offers very little to mages or adcs at all.

Domination is pretty much either designed to be a secondary tree, or an Assassin Tree. It has very little crossover that's actually functional for other classes, than Electrocute.

Inspiration is a mish mosh of ideas, most of which people don't even use, other than Magical Footwear, and perhaps on some champs Klepto - not because they are good runes, but because they augment income.

Sorcery's the only tree that's Go-To for every champ.

I even use Phase Rush on Ornn , because Sorcery is better built for him than any other tree.

Mages don't have an actual tree. They have to guess and trial. Others have OP true damage, Tenacity ridden trees that have everything they need. I mean..... when Yi has almost no counterplay, there's something wrong with the rune structure.... He's already in almost perma Q status, and doing 45% True damage, and soon Essence Reaver IS going to put him in perma Q with no cooldown. CC doesn't work if you can't even get the champ out of Unstoppable status.

I mean hell.... I just had a Yasuo build item 3190 so that he had FOUR Shields, none of which ever run out: item 3156 item 3072 and his passive. You can't even counterplay that. That's what Conquerer is doing for those champs; They don't even need to maximize damage anymore.

Pika FoxMay 9, 20187 votes

Conq isnt adaptive solely because tanks would get far more use out of it than its intended purpose.

AzadetheMay 9, 20181 votes

You do realize other than Thresh , all tanks are Melee? So they can all use it? To its full effect?

Think before you type.....

Pika FoxMay 9, 20187 votes

Unless they build AD, no, no they dont.

AzadetheMay 9, 20182 votes

But that is NOT what you just argued. You argued it was not adaptive for TANKS. It in fact is useable by tanks and operates the same as if it was an AD build.

In addition, there are two tanks especially.... who defies this argument too: Malphite DrMundo

The only appropriate comment you could have written is:

Conq isnt adaptive solely because _**Mages **_would get far more use out of it than its intended purpose.

Pika FoxMay 9, 20183 votes

Mundo and malphite can be played as bruisers (also, mundo isnt a tank, and generally doesnt build AP)

There is no pure AD tank, and as conq is based off physical damage, it makes tanks unable to use said keystone

(Posting on a phone is a pain in the ass)

AzadetheMay 9, 20182 votes

You don't even seem to understand what you're arguing. You're saying..... Conquerer cannot be adaptive, because tanks who don't build stats..... scale off AP? Whut? SInce when has that EVER been a consideration in any other rune?

I don't see Comet, Electrocute, Aery, Transcendence, Waterwalking, Celerity, etc..... taking ..... "Oh it's a tank" into consideration when deciding ...... Oh .... can they take this rune? And unlike Electrocute, Comet, and Aery, Conquerer adds FLAT stats, rather than damage, which technically helps tanks more than those three others. 35 AD is 35 AD.

It may not be the BEST RUNE for a tank, but it is still Tank Viable. It is not Viable AT ALL for a Mage, or a ranged champion, and it's the only rune in EXISTENCE with that consideration.

P.S. You have no clue why I brought up Mundo or Malphite:

Mundo's E give him 110-220 AD built in! That can be converted to True damage.

Malphite gains on hit melee Physical damage from his W.

Conquerer doesn't limit what kinds of damage can convert to true damage, but it DOES DO THIS:

Melee role Melee champions refresh the bonus damage duration when going in combat by affecting enemy champions.

In other words it IS useable on tanks who are melee, because like with Grasp, they can refresh it. That means..... champs like Maokai actually can use it, and his % based damage will get converted to True damage, and more importantly, HE CAN REFRESH IT.

**Mages and ADCS CANNOT. **

It's not like the 35 Flat AD doesn't boost these tanks either because they AUTO ATTACK.

Conquerer does not define what kind of damage it scales off. It defines what kind of attacks can keep it active.

Pika FoxMay 9, 20183 votes

Youre missing the point. Its not adaptive because it would invalidate the reason the rune exists; giving melee bruisers an option that tanks dont abuse. Malphite and mundo are not tanks. Full stop. Both are bruisers who the community jerry rigs into being tanks (mundo cannot tank at all, at best he performs the role of a juggernaut, who the rune is designed for).

The rune is not optimal for the likes of maokai, as he doesnt want to auto more than needed to proc passive, and doesnt build ad to back up the damage meaning by the time he wants to stay in the fight, its literally not doing damage.

If it were adaptive and scaled off ap, THEN tanks would run it against bruisers/jugs, and essentially invalidate both their and the runes existance.

Even if it were adaptive, mages wouldnt run it, as they dont want to auto attack often, and only do so to proc a passive or lich.

FixHealsRemoveGWMay 10, 20182 votes

There are many kinds of auto attackers. MasterYi Assassin. Kayle Mage Caitlyn Marksman Warwick tanky Fighter Yasuo not so tank Fighter

And you wanna tell me that rune trees are narowly designed? Try to reasses your own arguments before you throw them on the boards, you can save a lot of time.

OleandervineMay 9, 20184 votes

I don't think you have the right frame of mind for this. Every rune tree theoretically has picks for classes and roles that those trees are not predominantly made for - it allows for flexibility. That's why Sorcery has adaptive stats in most of it's runes.

HOWEVER, Sorcery was intended to the primary rune tree for mages. Just like Precision is the primary rune tree for ADCs, Domination is the primary rune tree for Assassins, and Resolve is the primary rune tree for tanks. Even though this is the case, Sorcery is nowhere near as focused as Resolve, Domination, and Precision. It's a horrible mess that tries to combine mana management, scaling power, and supplemental damage with movement speed runes. The movement speed runes will consume a solid 3rd of the Sorcery tree once Nimbus Cloak goes live, which is WAY MORE than any sub-theme on any other tree consumes, and to top it off, most mages don't even want to utilize the movement speed runes. They're cluttering the shit out of Sorcery, and muddying the focus for the primary users the tree was intended for. Other classes will now get more out of Sorcery than mages actually will, because they're making it such a dumping ground for random runes that don't work for mages.

SpongebobIsLifeMay 9, 20186 votes

bruh, let's be real here, we all know the sorcery tree was designed with mages in mind. Sure, other champions, largely adcs will go into sorcery as their secondary tree, but when talking about which tree is which, you need to look at the keystones. I say this because practically every champion could go resolve, inspiration, precision, domination, or sorcery...secondary. Does that mean these trees were created to be a potential primary tree for everyone? Definitely not.

When examining the sorcery tree's keystones, it is undeniable that for the most part, they are tailored towards ap mages and that includes ap supports.

Certainly there are a few situations of ad champs going into the socerty tree primary, a bit less than there used to be (jhin and mf don't take it as much anymore). But there are also a few situations with ap mages going precision primary, does that mean the Precision keystones were designed with AP Mids in mind? Not really.

Tl;dr when talking about which class belongs to which trees, examine the primary keystones not the secondary stuff as the secondary stuff in each tree is applicable to all champions.

4 Step CadenceMay 9, 20188 votes

Because it's Precision: The Perfect. 4 is perfection. And only perfection is acceptable. Clearly you've never played Jhin.

Step Sis LuxMay 8, 20187 votes

Domination get 4 keystones now so i hope sorcerery is next

VoraciousXMay 9, 20185 votes

Honestly my assumption is because immobile mages need movement speed to contend with other champions. If you don't like movement speed runes on the other hand there are other options(Transcendence, Scorch, Absolute Focus). I personally love taking Celerity on pretty much ANYONE honestly.

Dope SoloMay 9, 20186 votes

I feel like they need to move some of them around. It would be nice to take transcendence + celerity instead of having to choose between them. Orb is a null option because its AD assasins in midlane that makes it virtually worthless anyway. Waterwalking is shit. Phaserush is shit. Nimbus is shit. Drop either aery or comet, they're virtually the same. Just some non-shit options plz!

VoraciousXMay 9, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dope Solo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Oxomie9v,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2018-05-09T04:58:18.311+0000)

I feel like they need to move some of them around. It would be nice to take transcendence + celerity instead of having to choose between them. Orb is a null option because its AD assasins in midlane that makes it virtually worthless anyway. Waterwalking is shit. Phaserush is shit. Nimbus is shit. Drop either aery or comet, they're virtually the same. Just some non-shit options plz!

Aery is good early game and that's about it. Comet is potentially better than Electrocute, if you can land it(and most mages have a way to make it land) because late game it's cooldown goes down to 8 seconds and it's cooldown when you hit champions with abilities.

Waterwalking is an option for roamers, and honestly it's better than Celerity(You get way more AP from Waterwalking than you do Celerity, unless you have a 150% movement speed buff or something). Celerity I only take because it makes me move faster moreso than actually the damage increase. The two combined are good together. The reason people don't take Waterwalking is most likely because Gathering Storm is a good late game option while Scorch is a good poke option. But by late game if you have 30 AP from Waterwalking that's around 2 times more than you'd get from Celerity even with movement speed items and swifties.