1: You get Jungle and Bot snowballing, get the first turret gold and snowball an early 20 minute win
2: YOU get camped and snowballed on, making any kind of turtling and getting back into the game impossible due to weak turrets and the sheer amount of gold the enemy team gets
3: You ACTUALLY reach late game and whoever fucks up first loses the game on the spot
SNSD Sunnny68 votesso basically all numbers are either greater than 0, less than 0, or is 0?
DarkRitual52 votesExcept that damn imaginary number... silly i
Velzard of Koz4 votesGrammar nazi would come to correct it to silly me. Math nazi would laugh at Grammar nazi's foolishness. Math nazi: ,,You have no power of 2 here."
Krystle2 votes[deleted]
Velzard of Koz3 votesSome things make you upset, others make you subset.
Krystle2 votes[deleted]
Mistress Madoka1 votesAll hail Seht!
(Am I doing this right)
OHminus2 votesWell, that would make his argument a null set, would it?
Feel free to downvote me to measure zero.
420 grams1 votes[{quoted}](name=SNSD Sunnny,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Or5xpo85,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-12-30T13:21:24.842+0000)
so basically all numbers are either greater than 0, less than 0, or is 0?
But the odds of getting 0 is too low compared to a number that is greater or less than 0
Orangesilk49 votesIf you pay close attention the jg is responsible for 2/3 scenarios listed there.
So yeah, a single role is the one that decides on 67% of the games. Cool
Weathered7 votesTo be fair, a role whose description is to pressure and influence the other lanes as an assisting champion is bound to have a large impact on the game.
TheGr8WhiteD3 votesIt may be the deciding factor, but that means it adds alot of pressure to that role. Sure, you could complain about junglers having the highest carry potential, but if your jungler sucks, you will almost always lose that game being the tradeoff.
Maximum Morde12 votesNumber 4: Remakes
Alex h87216 votes[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Or5xpo85,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-12-30T14:55:51.007+0000)
Number 4: Remakes
Don't forget about Dodge city
Snowplosion12 votesYou forgot the last and most confusing type of ranked game:
It's silver, so scenario one happens, but they throw at a ton, get aced, flame each other, and lose.
invisiblecat111 votesI thought there was two 1.) Bot lane wins --> VICTORY 2.) Bot lane feeds --> DEFEAT
YoungFarmer8 votesI thought there was two 1.) Bot lane wins --> VICTORY 2.) Bot lane feeds --> DEFEAT
As someone who mains support, its just as bad if mid and top feed. I got a cait fed to be like 12/5 she couldn't do shit against the 6/1 illaoi and 8/0 leblanc.
Feeders just lose game period.
Alex h87212 votesI thought there was two 1.) Bot lane wins --> VICTORY 2.) Bot lane feeds --> DEFEAT
its not entirely true. Other feeder lanes + bad macro play on the fed side (getting picked off etc) can still let a game get to lategame.
Puppet33r9 votes4 You have Lux on your team. She spams her q from fog of war and instagibs whoever get caught with e+r without ever bothering to proc her passive, leaving the opposite team in 4v5 with absolutely no risk involved.
My Waifu Vanilla2 votesThe problem is that Lux ult procs her passive for her so she actually has no reason to ever get into range to auto attack.
Friendly Ram6 votesThought this would be an autofill rant.
Malicious Metal44 votesIf you can't play at least 3 positions, including support, you should stop playing ranked.
notice me Sin pi17 votesunless support is the only position u can play
Papa Andrei8 votesHonestly if you are a support main, and know how to cs, you can play any role
notice me Sin pi3 voteshonestly if you are a support main yes, im a supp main, u should learn how to cs, just so that u can learn the next thing---setting up cs for ur adc undertower which im terrible at af tbh
Friendly Ram3 votesI'm a support main. Idgaf just happy it's not another autofill circlejerk.
Malicious Metal18 votesWell yeah, Autofill isn't a problem if you just man up and know that you might just have to play an off role.
Back in my earlier seasons there was just call and pick Order.
If you were last pick you were almost always left with Support.
dkw2 votes"but i said first"
good times...
DarkPh0enix1 votesI play Top, Jungle, Support and mid if I really have to. Autofill has put me into mid 5 fucking times and we lost all of them. Thank god I was never ADC
Alex h87212 votes[{quoted}](name=FK LANA,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Or5xpo85,comment-id=000400010002,timestamp=2016-12-30T16:01:59.837+0000)
I play Top, Jungle, Support and mid if I really have to. Autofill has put me into mid 5 fucking times and we lost all of them. Thank god I was never ADC
That's why I never choose fill. I'm similar except I prefer mid and will play top "if I have to"
Chose fill a few times, and I got put in ADC about half of the times. I just don't like playing that class, way too squishy and way too few defensive/escape tools.
Plus relying on a support in bronze (who was likely autofilled)= suffering. (large reason I got gud w/ nautilus)
yangus Beef4 votesThere are many top challenger players that can only play one role. They should stop playing ranked?
500000000000000011 votesThat can play one role at challenger level/best. Most challenger players know how to do other roles, they're just good at their main role.
Velzard of Koz4 votesSorry, Draft was removed in EUNE. Gotta invade the Flex Ranked.
NineTailedMystic1 votesSure, I can play 3 positions. But 1 champion :^)
Mistress Madoka2 votesI'd love to see Ahri in 3 positions :^)
MrWasjig6 votesSo all in all, boring and miserable as fuck, and not the least bit entertaining or enjoyable.
nm10106 votesIts almost like we came full circle with old old dragon snowballing off bot lane.
CarameI Frappe4 votesThe struggle of being a Support Main and your jungler isn't putting pressure on map ... so you get 4 manned ganked and even if you survive it, they take your tower and proceed to snowball from there. Happened in 70% of my ranked games and it's pissing me the hell off. MAKE TOWERS STRONGER THEN TISSUE PAPER PLEASE!@!!@
TheStevenWu2 votesTranslation to OP's complaint.
There are two win conditions:
I don't see how this is a problem. How many other ways can you win a war simulator game. Did you want Riot to add in most gold win conditions or something?
the Anarchit3cht9 votesdid you really call this a war simulator lmfao
TheStevenWu1 votes[{quoted}](name=the Anarchit3cht,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Or5xpo85,comment-id=00120000,timestamp=2016-12-30T21:23:19.211+0000)
did you really call this a war simulator lmfao
"war" = a state of armed conflict between two groups.
A moba is game where two teams (groups) fight one another with forces. Sounds like... war? and since it's a game and not real life.... it's a simulator?
Moba's are essentially downscaled war simulators. I mean... it's definitely not a racing or fighting game.
the Anarchit3cht1 votesMOBA is its own type of category. It stands for Multiplayer Online Battle Arena. It's an arena(Summoner's Rift, Twisted Treeline, Howling Abyss) wherein multiple players battle online. Wars are not fought between 50 people. Wars are massive conflicts that involve a variety of troops, vehicles(even if its just horses or boats and carriages for old wars way back when) and a whole arsenal of weaponry. If you want a war simulator, you have the ever popular Battlefield series(and to a lesser extent, COD all though that is more of an arcade shooter) and other games like World of Tanks, even.
A MOBA is its own unique type of game. I think the core principles of MOBA(close knit battles in a single/few select maps/arenas) and a war simulator(large scale conflict with a variety of objectives, loadouts, maps and vehicles) are relatively contradictory to one another and that it would take something extraordinary to combine the two. See, you can have a genre like an FPS and a War Simulator combined because they borrow a lot on the same tropes and same the intrinsic nature.
If you really want to consider this a war simulator, please, go right ahead but if this a war simulator then so is Street Fighter when I play Ken vs Akuma. They are clearing just a downscaled version war simulator signifying the conflict between America an Japan.
TheStevenWu1 votes[{quoted}](name=the Anarchit3cht,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Or5xpo85,comment-id=0012000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-13T01:06:24.222+0000)
MOBA is its own type of category. It stands for Multiplayer Online Battle Arena. It's an arena(Summoner's Rift, Twisted Treeline, Howling Abyss) wherein multiple players battle online. Wars are not fought between 50 people. Wars are massive conflicts that involve a variety of troops, vehicles(even if its just horses or boats and carriages for old wars way back when) and a whole arsenal of weaponry. If you want a war simulator, you have the ever popular Battlefield series(and to a lesser extent, COD all though that is more of an arcade shooter) and other games like World of Tanks, even.
A MOBA is its own unique type of game. I think the core principles of MOBA(close knit battles in a single/few select maps/arenas) and a war simulator(large scale conflict with a variety of objectives, loadouts, maps and vehicles) are relatively contradictory to one another and that it would take something extraordinary to combine the two. See, you can have a genre like an FPS and a War Simulator combined because they borrow a lot on the same tropes and same the intrinsic nature.
If you really want to consider this a war simulator, please, go right ahead but if this a war simulator then so is Street Fighter when I play Ken vs Akuma. They are clearing just a downscaled version war simulator signifying the conflict between America an Japan.
and you're absolutely right. these games are ultimately a downscaled war simulator. Therefore, they all have the same generic win conditions, which i will repeat:
If we look at counterstrike (FPS), there tends to be two outcomes:
Figher games are different, as they are not conflicts between GROUPS.
If we look at starcraft (RTS):
So what about league?
How do you win war (life)?
Why is it that all these games have the same two similar win conditions? Because ultimately, they are all games based around the concept of war, which makes them war simulations.
You can label them however you like, but as of now; I am the only one providing an explanation to OP's question.
the Anarchit3cht1 votesI really don't think you understand what a war simulator is. Your entire argument is hinged upon double standards. If League can be a war simulator, so can a fighting game. Your only reason that Tekken isn't a war simulator is because its 1 on 1 fights? These games are coming with ever increasing popular multi fights where you get like 3 people per team. Doesn't make it a war simulator. League has 5 people, on a fixed map, with a fixed objective wherein the plays are determined by magic and abilities of the characters--not vehicles, weaponry etc as you'd find in say... a war. It's not a conflict between groups during league. You can have Demacian champs and Noxian champs on one team even though they are enemies. That alone proves it's not a conflict between groups. If say, one team played as Noxus and another team played as Demacia and you played on maps pushing for territory or capturing objectives in the actual world of Runeterra, then you might actually have some merit to your claim.
As for your answer to OP questions its just funny because take a game like Battlefield. You can't really "snowball" in that game or press an early advantage. The closest thing you can do is dig in at a flag or hardpoint, but if you aren't even playing a gamemode wherein those exists, its not like more kills gets you bonuses or makes you kill opponents easier. In fact, most of the advantages tend to be handed to the losing team. What early lead are you going to get exactly? If you are getting more kills or capturing more objectives its not because you got early objectives and got stronger than your opponent, its simply because your better.
That is pretty contradictory to League wherein you actually CAN snowball. Even if you are evenly matched or even worse than your opponent, a good play can you get more experience and a gold advantage which translates to stats which translates to your character simply being intrinsically better than their character. A war simulator doesn't have this concept at all. They don't provide advantages that let you "snowball" for getting early kills. The only game that does is CoD with its kill streaks, but as I said before thats more of an arcade shooter than anything. It seems to you like your definition of war simulator is anything wherein people have armed conflict. And that's not only incorrect, it's idiotic.
In League you play a designated individual with set abilities on a set map in a set position doing a set objective. In real war simulators you typically play an unnamed soldier and you have a variety of tools and weaponry. If going in with an assault rifle isn't working for you, you can hang back and try a sniper rifle. The idea behind it is that theoretically when you die, that soldier is dead. When you respawn, you're a different soldier. Thus it simulates the concept of a large scale war. This is contradictory to League wherein you respawn because of magical forces and you're literally 5 people battling 5 people in an imaginary arena.
As for point number two.... it's a bit closer. If you aren't playing like TDM or something. Mind, you these games typically play to a score point, not an ultimate objective in mind. Even if the score is based on capturing objectives. They aren't all, like BF1s operations, but even that has elements of a scoring system in it with revive tickets. The attacking team has an ultimate objective and the defending team has to reach a certain amount of kills(score) before the attacking team reaches the ultimate objective. You can't get your ass handed to you on your first 2 and a half battalions and push through 10 sectors with 60 tickets. Even if you're a bonafide bad ass. I mean in theory you could, but being a war simulator the teams are WAY above five and you can't act with the same cohesion as a small group like you can in League. There are vast diferences between a MOBA and a war simulator. Vast, vast, vast differences. We can agree to disagree because I can see you're clutching onto your fallacies for dear life, so I'll let you do just that.
I am in no way saying the win conditions you provided for league are inaccurate, they aren't. Those are pretty much how to win league, but that doesn't make it a war simulator. Even if those win objectives can net you a win in war simulator and league it doesn't mean they are one in the same. Those win conditions are pretty generic. You could "snowball" an advantage playing tic toe by taking the corner on your first move. And you can "outmaneuver" your opponent by taking the middle spot if your second place. If you are first and you move in a corner you automatically win unless someone goes in the center. If you're second and move in the center when they went the in the corner, it's automatically a tie game unless you opt to not block them. I guess since they share similar win conditions, tic tac toe must be a war simulator.
TheStevenWu1 votes[{quoted}](name=the Anarchit3cht,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Or5xpo85,comment-id=001200000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-13T21:43:00.168+0000)
I really don't think you understand what a war simulator is. Your entire argument is hinged upon double standards. If League can be a war simulator, so can a fighting game. Your only reason that Tekken isn't a war simulator is because its 1 on 1 fights? These games are coming with ever increasing popular multi fights where you get like 3 people per team. Doesn't make it a war simulator. League has 5 people, on a fixed map, with a fixed objective wherein the plays are determined by magic and abilities of the characters--not vehicles, weaponry etc as you'd find in say... a war. It's not a conflict between groups during league. You can have Demacian champs and Noxian champs on one team even though they are enemies. That alone proves it's not a conflict between groups. If say, one team played as Noxus and another team played as Demacia and you played on maps pushing for territory or capturing objectives in the actual world of Runeterra, then you might actually have some merit to your claim.
As for your answer to OP questions its just funny because take a game like Battlefield. You can't really "snowball" in that game or press an early advantage. The closest thing you can do is dig in at a flag or hardpoint, but if you aren't even playing a gamemode wherein those exists, its not like more kills gets you bonuses or makes you kill opponents easier. In fact, most of the advantages tend to be handed to the losing team. What early lead are you going to get exactly? If you are getting more kills or capturing more objectives its not because you got early objectives and got stronger than your opponent, its simply because your better.
That is pretty contradictory to League wherein you actually CAN snowball. Even if you are evenly matched or even worse than your opponent, a good play can you get more experience and a gold advantage which translates to stats which translates to your character simply being intrinsically better than their character. A war simulator doesn't have this concept at all. They don't provide advantages that let you "snowball" for getting early kills. The only game that does is CoD with its kill streaks, but as I said before thats more of an arcade shooter than anything. It seems to you like your definition of war simulator is anything wherein people have armed conflict. And that's not only incorrect, it's idiotic.
In League you play a designated individual with set abilities on a set map in a set position doing a set objective. In real war simulators you typically play an unnamed soldier and you have a variety of tools and weaponry. If going in with an assault rifle isn't working for you, you can hang back and try a sniper rifle. The idea behind it is that theoretically when you die, that soldier is dead. When you respawn, you're a different soldier. Thus it simulates the concept of a large scale war. This is contradictory to League wherein you respawn because of magical forces and you're literally 5 people battling 5 people in an imaginary arena.
As for point number two.... it's a bit closer. If you aren't playing like TDM or something. Mind, you these games typically play to a score point, not an ultimate objective in mind. Even if the score is based on capturing objectives. They aren't all, like BF1s operations, but even that has elements of a scoring system in it with revive tickets. The attacking team has an ultimate objective and the defending team has to reach a certain amount of kills(score) before the attacking team reaches the ultimate objective. You can't get your ass handed to you on your first 2 and a half battalions and push through 10 sectors with 60 tickets. Even if you're a bonafide bad ass. I mean in theory you could, but being a war simulator the teams are WAY above five and you can't act with the same cohesion as a small group like you can in League. There are vast diferences between a MOBA and a war simulator. Vast, vast, vast differences. We can agree to disagree because I can see you're clutching onto your fallacies for dear life, so I'll let you do just that.
I am in no way saying the win conditions you provided for league are inaccurate, they aren't. Those are pretty much how to win league, but that doesn't make it a war simulator. Even if those win objectives can net you a win in war simulator and league it doesn't mean they are one in the same. Those win conditions are pretty generic. You could "snowball" an advantage playing tic toe by taking the corner on your first move. And you can "outmaneuver" your opponent by taking the middle spot if your second place. If you are first and you move in a corner you automatically win unless someone goes in the center. If you're second and move in the center when they went the in the corner, it's automatically a tie game unless you opt to not block them. I guess since they share similar win conditions, tic tac toe must be a war simulator.
Your first paragraph is just nitpicking things that are completely irrelevant and pointless. 5 man on one team = group. I don't even know why you brought lore into the conversation. Also, a simulator doesn't necessarily mean a replica of the real thing. You can simulate war with magic and dragons just as well as you can do it with guns and vehicles. Keep in mind, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT GAME GENRES. Just like how I can call WoW a life simulator as it is a game focused on the development and growth of your character's life, despite being in a fantasy land and society that does not simulate our own real life experiences.
You're right that Battlefield (in certain modes) cannot be snowballed. That is because the game was designed to take out all snowball aspects, something you would not normally see in traditional competitive scenarios. These modes are designed as a pure deathmatch where the game ends with the ticker runs down or time runs out. It is a game mode purposely designed so it doesn't matter if you're winning or losing. I'm assuming you've played the game and played conquest. Seriously, how much of the people playing conquest actually cares if they win or lose? For the most part, they don't because the mode has been designed where all you care about is KDA and nothing else matter. It's not something comparable to competitive games like counterstrike or league of legends.
In a real war, it doesn't work like conquest. Each point you lose is significant. Each soldier you lose is one soldier you have less to compete with. In battlefield conquest, the game is always 16 vs 16. (or w/e # of players there are). If you kill one, it's still 16 vs 16. Sure, you have maybe 1 less vehicle to use if you lose a point, but it's been designed so that only a few points have any significant vehicles so it doesn't even really matter at the end. In league, if you lose a tower, you lose map pressure and thus lose resources to one side of the map. If a player dies, it gives the enemy an advantageous window to push. That is more similar to what you find in war.
Even if league of legends is only 5 on 5, it simulates war a lot better than battlefield conquest. In war, if you lose a squadron of soldiers, it takes time to replace them. During which, the enemy has a number advantage over you and can more easily wipe our your entire station. That's not how battlefield conquest work with player respawning some few seconds after death. It is, however, much more similar to league's longer death timer where if one member dies, the enemy has a significant advantage until the team is replenished. Instead of thinking it as a 5 individual player against 5 individual player when comparing, think of it has 5 squadrons of soldiers against another 5 squadron of soldier (or battalions, however large you want it to be).
again, fighting games are just fundamentally different. They lack the resource management that are often highlighted in war games. They lack the significant disadvantages placed upon a player from mistakes or losses. in a fighting game, the opponents play on an equal playing field the entire time regardless of who wins or loses a trade. There is only one way to win: do damage faster than your opponent - you can't even expand that into something more specific.
tl;dr: league of legends simulates the experience of war better than battlefield (conquest) by a mile.
the Anarchit3cht1 votesNit picking things? No it's the basis of what a moba is an how it makes it entirely different from a war simulator. Namely there is no simulation of war in a MOBA, at least not in League.
Either way, I can see you're going to hold onto your misguided definitions and stereotypes so I'll bid you a good day.
deadlychuck1 votesThere are a ton of ways to win say an RTS game, which isn't the two you just described.
Yet every single one of those has been stripped from league over the years. RITO's top notch design team.
TheStevenWu1 votesThere are a ton of ways to win say an RTS game, which isn't the two you just described.
Yet every single one of those has been stripped from league over the years. RITO's top notch design team.
sorry, but you can't just make a blanket statement like that and treat it as a counterargument. provide an example and show me how it does not fall into one of the two criteria of winning i setforth.