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Zed is balanced and got a nerf based on "principle" rather than power level

Desiderium·May 28, 2015·2 votes·545 views

Meddler stated that the nerf was not because Zed is too strong, but rather for principle. "Zed shouldn't be able to jump on you and kill you without you being able to retaliate." Sounds fair until you realize that this makes him lose against half-decent Oriannas, Lissandras, even Galio, matchups that he used to win by being able to skillfully play with his ultimate. But that's an issue for another thread. Instead, for this thread, since Zed was balanced before the uncalled nerf, how do you think we could slightly put his power back?

I suggest:

W: Shadow speed increases with every rank in W, maxing out to where it used to be before the nerf, at rank 5.

Context: This doesn't change the fact that he can't dodge Ori/Liss/etc ults when he ults during the lane phase. The recent uncalled nerf still accomplishes this skillful gameplay removal. What this buff does do however is give him a slight boost in mobility towards the later stages of the game where enemies have massive amounts of counterplay to his ult (even without the recent 1 second restriction. God help you.)

Minor unnecessary nerf that affects him in all stages of the game -> minor necessary buff that helps him only in the later stages.

Thoughts?

21 Comments

I eat dragonsMay 28, 20157 votes

[deleted]

DesideriumMay 28, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crazeh Fruit,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OqYO4EY4,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-05-28T02:43:28.394+0000)

My thoughts are you didn't need another thread to whine about the Zed nerfs.

Pressing a button to get out of harm near instantly after applying an execute to an enemy while being untargetable is skill now?

Can you focus on the actual point of the thread instead of shitposting?

KhâmulMay 28, 20154 votes

Tell me more about how you don't have enough mobility Mordekaiser

StrawberrycocoaMay 28, 20153 votes

Having a little bit more reaction time to defend yourself is a GOOD thing. Being able to blink out of nowhere spam skills then blink back before Zed's character model can EVEN APPEAR ON THE MAP was completely horrible to play against.

DesideriumMay 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Having a little bit more reaction time to defend yourself is a GOOD thing. Being able to blink out of nowhere spam skills then blink back before Zed's character model can EVEN APPEAR ON THE MAP was completely horrible to play against.

Why are people focusing on what I said about the R cooldown rather than my suggestion to his W?

I mean

You can clearly see me saying in the OP that I want this discussion to be about some kind of minor buff to restore his power level since he wasn't nerfed based on being OP.

I eat dragonsMay 28, 20153 votes

[deleted]

DesideriumMay 28, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crazeh Fruit,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OqYO4EY4,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-05-28T03:08:53.528+0000)

You yourself made it pretty clear you're upset about Zed being nerfed by making 2 threads in a short span of time. Typically when a champion is nerfed the intention is to reduce said champion's power (shocking I know). Why would they buff him after nerfing him? That would completely defeat the point.

Because Meddler himself stated that the nerf wasn't based on his power level.

I eat dragonsMay 28, 20152 votes

[deleted]

DesideriumMay 28, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crazeh Fruit,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OqYO4EY4,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-28T03:13:19.722+0000)

Alright let me put it this way. The change to Zed was based on the fact that the way his ult functioned before it was unhealthy and unfair to play against. That aside, Zed is not weak and therefore does not need any buffs.

If it was unfair for him to immediately get out of danger (which is usually a bad idea when he can't proc his passive or get a second Q) then why not revert his ult back to the way it used to be on release? His chance to hit a double Q gets higher, but his untargetable duration decreases. However, he lands on the target faster. Combine that with increasing W's shadow speed back to the way it used to be at all ranks, and remove the 1 second delay on his ult swap. Now he has to dedicate himself to his targets without artificial shit like forced cooldowns and has the tools available to dodge what he has the ability and skill to dodge (Faster W and R that lands behind the enemy.) He gets more killing and sticking power and loses a massive amount of safety and escapability unless he's crafty. If you honestly believe this is a matter of his safety, they would have reverted his ult back to the way it used to be. It's not about that.

StrawberrycocoaMay 28, 20151 votes

Because the nerf was justified and it's not impacting enough to need compensation buffs.

LucentileMay 28, 20152 votes

If Meddler said this: "Zed shouldn't be able to jump on you and kill you without you being able to retaliate." Then, yes. It is about his power level. He had too much power [able to jump on you, kill you without retaliation being possible.] It just wasn't the raw power level [his numbers are too high, utility too much.] It was this specific capability that was pushing him too much. Removing it took out power that Zed should not have had [not that anyone should have that power.]

Also, strong utility mages [Orianna/Lissandra] or out right tanks [Galio] SHOULD counter Zed.

SEKAIMay 28, 20151 votes

Either add to your last thread created like 5 min ago or at least wait until it's finished or something.

EDIT: Are you telling me Zed should win against literally anybody just because the player has fast enough fingers (when he already has his kit simply bigger than most of the champs on the roster)? No man, just no.

DesideriumMay 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Are you telling me Zed should win against literally anybody just because the player has fast enough fingers (when he already has his kit simply bigger than most of the champs on the roster)? No man, just no.

Where are you getting "fast fingers" from?

It's more about reaction time, prediction, and situation adaptation rather than just R->R.

R->R immediately for no reason is a stupid thing to do and only noob Zeds do that.

What I'm talking about is using R when you see Ori ulting, rather than just guessing it and wasting your dashback, then you're forced to try to go back in with W (if the distance is covered) and then she can ult and lock you down. Basically, not only does the 1 second nerf make it impossible to make mistakes, it also makes it impossible to execute good play. This is not a good thing at all.

SEKAIMay 28, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kinky Ninja Boy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OqYO4EY4,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-05-28T02:48:04.741+0000)

Where are you getting "fast fingers" from?

It's more about reaction time, prediction, and situation adaptation rather than just R->R.

R->R immediately for no reason is a stupid thing to do and only noob Zeds do that.

What I'm talking about is using R when you see Ori ulting, rather than just guessing it and wasting your dashback, then you're forced to try to go back in with W (if the distance is covered) and then she can ult and lock you down. Basically, not only does the 1 second nerf make it impossible to make mistakes, it also makes it impossible to execute good play. This is not a good thing at all.

The same person who is a Zed master could be playing Garen and performing mediocrity, why?

Because it's not due to the player having so much skill that they are playing Zed, it is solely because Zed's kit allows outplays to happen more than any other champs due to his oversized kit.

And that's the very example of a poorly designed kit (much like Lee, LB and a few others).

Remember this game isn't a fighting game in the first place, there is no need to think it as one.

LuggMay 28, 20151 votes

Zed got a nerf because the counterplay against him was minimal at best.

DesideriumMay 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

counterplay against him was minimal at best.

I don't downvote posts often at all. I find it a very useless and self-powering thing to do.

But this statement gave me an exception.

LuggMay 28, 20151 votes

Obviously a Zed main who now can't get easy wins.

LucentileMay 28, 20151 votes

I don't know Lissandra well, but I know Orianna. By keeping the ball on her, she already has more armor/resist than most midlaners. She can then self-cast Protect to get a damage shield. She can then selfcast her W to get a speed boost to get away from the danger zone, and tag Zed for damage. Since he dived and is probably isolated, if she wants, she can ping him with Q before putting up her shield.

Her kit is great to counter him; he should have a hard time against her. Just like an immobile, pure nuker should have trouble against Zed. By removing his jump and kill you without retaliation, you give characters who should have an advantage against him [by countering his assassination attempt] back their ability to play against him where they actually have the advantage.

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