Riot, I think you could simplify jungle by removing the jungler items.

Irelia Bot··7 votes·474 views

Sure they might allow a few champs to work in jungle who would otherwise not be able to jungle but all of the jungle items generally have weaker elements of other non jungler items. Runic Echoes= Luden's echo, Warior=ghostblade/death's dance, cinderhulk=sunfirecape, bloodrazor=BotRK. If you are jungling and get a jungle starting item you are stuck with one of these 4 options. This was not the case when I started playing.

If jungler items were removed and a "hand of midas" like effect were added to smite (if exp gains are not high enough for junglers and non junglers taking camps was a problem) and perhaps restore 15% of missing health and mana or soemthing to that effect (likely abuse case brought up so moving this to the side). I seriously do not see how the game would be that negatively effected. Yes I am aware that a few changes to minor camps would likely have to happen but junglers would still have reason to be played especially in this age of elemental dragons.

And a shyvana could rush a bilgewater cutlass if she wanted stronger ganks. There are items for that kind of thing in the game outside of smite enchantments. Need clear speed? By a tiamat. Build what you need for your situation instead of what the jungler items are offering you,

I am suggesting if the active of "hand of midas" and nothing else were applied to summoner spell: Smite to some way, jungle items would likely have no real need to be in the game given they are weaker compared to similar items.

Stats of the dota 2 item I speak about: http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Hand_of_Midas

Remember only something like the active is being suggested. With the 2 smite charge system you would have no excuse in why you can not smite fairly often.

11 Comments

Raiku Kawisa3 votes

%Max HP is different than %Curr HP. The thing that makes BotRK better than Bloodrazer is the lifesteal and that lifesteal applies to the passive on-hit.

Irelia Bot1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Raiku Kawisa,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OinTuWWz,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-05-08T03:30:39.756+0000)

%Max HP is different than %Curr HP. The thing that makes BotRK better than Bloodrazer is the lifesteal and that lifesteal applies to the passive on-hit.

So you are getting right to the point about it being kinda different even though they are in fact similar?

Raiku Kawisa1 votes

I agree that BotRK is stronger, but is not because BotRK's %HP effect is better.

6% Current HP is better when the target's Health is full, but as the fight goes on it will deal less and less dmg. 3% Max HP will do the same dmg no matter how much health the target has left.

Irelia Bot1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Raiku Kawisa,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OinTuWWz,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-05-08T03:45:47.544+0000)

I agree that BotRK is stronger, but is not because BotRK's %HP effect is better.

6% Current HP is better when the target's Health is full, but as the fight goes on it will deal less and less dmg. 3% Max HP will do the same dmg no matter how much health the target has left.

But fundamentally they are similar which is why I am comparing them to each other in the original post. It is a way of saying that even if this item is gone there are still things functionally similar in the game even if not exactly the same.

CaptnJakSparrow2 votes

That would just reintroduce top lane midlane cheese.

No.

Irelia Bot1 votes

{quoted}

That would just reintroduce top lane midlane cheese.

No.

Refresh my memory about this top lane midlane cheese.

CaptnJakSparrow2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OinTuWWz,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-05-08T03:36:54.630+0000)

Refresh my memory about this top lane midlane cheese.

item 1413 top lane.

item 1414 Mid lane.

It was used because of abusable stats that were too good for their price.

With your current introduction, it would be abused because it'd be a better summoner 7

Why pick summoner 7 When you, as a top laner, or especially mid laner can just go walk over to yours, or your enemies jungle camps, take them, and smite to get a large chunk of health back, and then hop right back into lane.

Whoever got FB in their lanewould snowball out of control because it'd be a hyper win more type of SS that'd rape the enemy jungler + the other laner + have dragon security.

it'd be the best summoner spell in the game with your current function and would be highly abused.

Irelia Bot1 votes

{quoted}

item 1413 top lane.

item 1414 Mid lane.

It was used because of abusable stats that were too good for their price.

With your current introduction, it would be abused because it'd be a better summoner 7

Why pick summoner 7 When you, as a top laner, or especially mid laner can just go walk over to yours, or your enemies jungle camps, take them, and smite to get a large chunk of health back, and then hop right back into lane.

Whoever got FB in their lanewould snowball out of control because it'd be a hyper win more type of SS that'd rape the enemy jungler + the other laner + have dragon security.

it'd be the best summoner spell in the game with your current function and would be highly abused.

So the 15% health restored is the issue?

That was kinda an after though more having to do with jungles often times having trouble with the first clear then anything. It likely would not need to be on smite.

Perhaps just buffing the base damage on smite at lower levels would be a better option overall but the idea of this post is that the game would still be able to function if jungle items were removed and a few balance changes were made.

It is nice seeing post about legitimate issues that could happen if not though about by the one who makes the changes.

CaptnJakSparrow1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OinTuWWz,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-08T03:47:23.454+0000)

So the 15% health restored is the issue?

That was kinda an after though more having to do with jungles often times having trouble with the first clear then anything. It likely would not need to be on smite.

Perhaps just buffing the base damage on smite at lower levels would be a better option overall but the idea of this post is that the game would still be able to function if jungle items were removed and a few balance changes were made.

It is nice seeing post about legitimate issues that could happen if not though about by the one who makes the changes.

It was already done back in earlier seasons.

The problem was is that 1: created little diversity. 2. made some junglers weaker. 3. made junglers weak as fuck for the majority of the game.

For ex:

Junglers, regardless of who or what they were would just get Wriggles Lantern. Some random item after that, and boots. That's about all they could afford before the game was over.

I was plat back in season 3 as jungle shaco, and it was frankly annoying.

Demon King Maou1 votes

This is a really good idea! Sad to see it had downvotes when i came here though :/

Maximum Morde1 votes

Added a +1. I too rember jungling without the crutch jg items.

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