If riot wont add any Magic Pen items for Ap assasins...

ModJango Mage·Mar 15, 2017·3 votes·790 views

...cuz mages would abuse them. Then why are they keep adding new Lethality ones if they are getting used by ADC-s all of the time?

24 Comments

B00B00Mar 15, 20172 votes

void staff?

why do people underestimate that so much? AP/Magic works differently in defence too AD....

DrCyanideMar 15, 20171 votes

Wouldn't Void Staff be more comparable to Last Whisper's upgrades than to Lethality?

RalanrMar 15, 20171 votes

No. Void staff is still total MR last I checked while LW is bonus armor.

It's more comparable to old LW.

DrCyanideMar 15, 20171 votes

But both cut a percentage of resistance, rather than the flat amount that Lethality negates.

RalanrMar 15, 20171 votes

Except void cuts a total while LW only cuts bonus.

Void is good against (relatively speaking) anyone with MR since it even effects MR per level (something that not everyone gets). LW as it is now is terrible against anyone not building any armor items because it only affects the bonuses of those items rather than both it and base.

Zero Skill TankMar 15, 20172 votes

They don't add any more mpen items not because "mages would abuse them", but because squishy champions have non-scaling MR, and they are not needed. Moreover, mages and ap assassins damage patterns are much more similar to each other than marksmen and ad assassins, so there is little need to differentiate itemization for them.

I know that after reading boards for some time it might seem like everything in this game is about "melee vs ranged", but it's really not.

ModJango MageMar 15, 20171 votes

I can agree with you and i didnt think of that. Altough its not the only reason, since if a new MP item was added for AP assasins it would almost certanly be built by mages too. Maybe if they made that item melee only it would kinda solve the problem, but then some assasins Leblanc Ahri (if we can call her an assasin) couldnt buy it and some melee non-assasin ap champs could still use it. Rumble Galio

Mecha MaIphiteMar 15, 20171 votes

So we should add a shit ton of Mpen when it is already harder for tanks to itemize against AP?

SanKakUMar 15, 20171 votes

Heh, tell me about it. There are plenty of times where I'm playing top lane and I'm like...okay so this guy has less AP than I have MR...and he's still able to do sooooo much damage to me...and... Riot's okay with this??!!??

DrCyanideMar 15, 20171 votes

You've got it backwards. They're using why we don't add MPen for Assassins as a case study for why Lethality shouldn't have added for Assassins.

It's fine if Riot decides to make Lethality a general AD stat in the same way everyone who deals magic damage gets Sorc Shoes, but it then needs to be balanced around that.

sobi999Mar 15, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mecha MaIphite,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Oig9l90W,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-03-15T12:50:56.006+0000)

So we should add a shit ton of Mpen when it is already harder for tanks to itemize against AP?

Like seriously. MR is so freaking easy to get and there are so many different options even for Assasins /fighters and even adc's, looks at item 3814

RalanrMar 15, 20172 votes

Probably why void staff is still total rather than bonus MR.

sobi999Mar 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Probably why void staff is still total rather than bonus MR.

That's because armor increases as you level up therefore most champs have close to 90 armor at lvl 18 whereas all champs have 30-34 MR i believe. If they added total armor pen in LW it would negate a huge amount of armor. If you were to compare lethalith vs MP than lethality items are freaking wayyyyy over powered and the result was clear when a while back everyone was crying to get them nerfed.

HäßlichMar 15, 20171 votes

Remove Lethality. Give LW total Armor back, make any remaining armor penetration items/runes %pen rather than flat.

I made this suggestion in another thread, and explained why it's better there, but basically it means you build %pen vs tanks or raw damage vs squishies--Not flat pen vs squishies, %pen vs tanks, AND raw damage because reasons.

RalanrMar 15, 20171 votes

%total armor pen doesn't really have a downside against a low armor target.

HäßlichMar 15, 20171 votes

The downside is that it does very little against them as compared to tanks, so building raw damage is a better use of your resources if you specifically want to target squishies.

RalanrMar 15, 20171 votes

Except you can just build both and be equally effective against both.

Mecha MaIphiteMar 15, 20171 votes

item 3065 item 3102

item 3075 item 3025 item 3110 item 3143 item 3068 item 3742

hmmm

HäßlichMar 15, 20171 votes

You forgot a few: item 3026 item 3190 item 3512 and for some tanks, item 3001

It's still easier to itemize armor than MR, but I think you were underselling the MR side a bit, even if some of these are for both.

HäßlichMar 15, 20171 votes

Don't forget they had to get rid of Force of Nature because it was "too good vs AP" despite Void Staff being the counter. All they really had to do was nerf the sustain on it, but in typical Riot fashion, they knee-jerked super hard on it.

ThePikolMar 15, 20171 votes

Agree. Now we have only 3 MPen items: item 3151 item 3020 item 3135 . (2 for Cass)

"But it's too hard to itemize tanks agains AP" Then add HP+MR items as well. We have 4 big HP+armor items: item 3742 item 3109 item 3143 item 3068 while only 2 HP+mr item 3102 item 3065 .

Why adc and assasins can have so many offensive AD+mr items item 3814 item 3156 item 3139 item 3091 while all mages have is item 3157 ?

B00B00Mar 15, 20171 votes

because most Assassins need to get into melee range so they need a few more option to like....get there? mages, arguably have mobility/stuns or some form of something to guard from an all in if the reaction time is high enough.

adding HP + MR items would in turn hurt Assassins and ADCs and then they would get more upgrades, then we'd be back to square one.

its a bit more complicated than Add ''X'' your just thinking about one avenue of play/game character type.

ForgiveColourMar 15, 20171 votes

Lethality isnt even that good anymore lmao

MizayaMar 15, 20171 votes

You have to take into account that most squishy champions don't even have scaling base MR, just 30 all game. You only need 2 items to get 30 magic pen.