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Most of the Keystones favor AD

ModJango Mage··30 votes·10,601 views

Precision: -Press the Attack: It is procked by auto attacks -Lethalt Tempo: It gives attack speed

  • Fleet Footwork: Heals on auto attacks and gives ms. In theory this could work, but its really not what a mage wants, its only taken on champions who really have no better options.( Viktor ) -Conqueror: It only gives AD.

Domination: -Electrocute: Its good on some burst mages, but its cd mages it horrible in laning phase. -Predator: There are like 2 champs who can abuse this very well, and no one else really uses it. -Dark Harvest: Decent on some junglers, and it is procked by autos -The new Hail of Blades: Its basically just a better version of lethal tempo, which is in domination only because there are no places left in precision. Like srsly no one who takes domination normally will go for this, it just opens up this tree for marksmen, since it gives atk speed.

Sorcery:

  • Summon Aery: Most champs can only use it to a 50% effectivesness since they cant use the shield part of it. It was meant for supports anyways. -Arcane Comet: Bascially the mage keystone(altough a lot of other champs take it as well.) Its really good on poke mages, and on some dot mages, bacuse of the cd refund, but its really bad on burst mages and not so good on battle mages. -Phase Rush: It was meant for battle mages but only Cassio on Aurelion really uses it. Its pretty bad atm.

Resolve:

  • Grasp of the undying and Aftershock: These were ment for ad bruisers and tanks. Neither of them are useable on mages. -Guardian: A support rune.

Inspiration:

  • Kleptomancy: It has never really been used by mages, even tough it could be easly procked via their ranged autoattacks. Its mostly good on ad champions who can abuse it. -Glacial Augment: Literally no one uses this one. Even if it was used it would be better on ads since it is procked by auto attacks. The active item part doesnt help it either.
  • Unsealed spellbook: Its prolly the second most common rune on mages after comet(altough not sure if it will be, considering it has been changed). I think its so common only because nothing else really works on them atm. But its decent nonetheless.

So yea. AP champions, mages in particular, could see at least one new keystone.

32 Comments

Ariel the Cruel10 votes

Just a quick notice here: Precision is intended to be the ADC tree. There's really not much point in complaining that the runes in a tree cater specifically to the tree's target audience. (>_>)

Blåbæret2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7EHW59az,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-05-04T01:13:07.101+0000)

Just a quick notice here: Precision is intended to be the ADC tree. There's really not much point in complaining that the runes in a tree cater specifically to the tree's target audience. (>_>)

Lol, no.

Ariel the Cruel10 votes

"no. . ."

Way? Cookies? Surrender at 20? sforatu?

ModJango Mage3 votes

Well, i mean sorcery should be the tree for mages, but supports, bruisers and tanks with poke(well prolly sion is the only tank), and even a few marksen take it as primary. Not to mention that almost everyone can take it as a secondary option. But i really have no problem with this, trees should be open for a lot ot classes. I also have no problem with mages being unable to take precision as a primary tree. Its not the point of my post.

Puppet33r5 votes

This is the part that really pisses me off. Everyone can use ad/ap, hp but not everyone can effectively make use of attack speed. How come adcs can take supposedly suboptimal for them tree like sorcery/domination and still make use of it as efficiently as any mage/assassin would since they will scale off of it. And yet there's a whole bunch of champions who can't really make use of attack speed for whom going Precision means getting a useless appendix of attack speed that they can't make use of.

Everyone can use sorcery, everyone can use domination, everyone can use inspiration, everyone can use resolve(more or less) but precision? Only ad and on-hit carries allowed.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Consistent damage tree which is adcs bruisers. Not specifically for assassins but an option if assassins want to have consistent damage and Azir /Bard Only thing is That mages need to stop complaining that they have to use auto attacks they should be using it even none of those keystones had auto attacking components when your spells are on cooldown auto instead of twiddleing your thumbs i understand is only.75 seconds cause almost all mages have a spamable high damage q but you still should auto attack.

SwiftKitten888 votes

don't worry we have

[New] Hail of Blades (Domination Keystone) [Context]

"Gain 50 - 100% Attack Speed for the first 3 attacks made against an enemy Champion.

No more than 1.5s can elapse between attacks or Hail of Blades will end. 

Hail of Blades allows you to temporarily exceed the attack speed limit."

on pbe

this will fix all the mage issues...

-Riot... [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Warlord Rhinark6 votes

"Hey wouldn't it be cool if we just added the same Keystone again and slapped new on it?"

M00ndanc34 votes

Press the attack amplifies all damage on that target not just aa Conquoror gives ad or else it would make tanks (who primarily have ap scalings) super strong since it would make there percent health magic (and now true) damage scale to hard and since it was made for fighter champion, even champs like diana relies on her passive aa to deal damage and attack damage can be used by all unlike ap. Glacial secronizes better with ap items as a mage who wants to work on catching out people with items likeitem 3030 item 3146 item 3905

ModJango Mage1 votes

Oh yea, my mistake on PTA,gonna edit it, but even this doesnt really make them viable on ap casters. Conqueror does make perfect sense to be ad from a gameplay perspective , it would be beyond broken on champs like rumble if it gave ap. My problem with it is that its yet another keysone that favors ad champions more. Eventough glacial augment syncronises with those items you have mentioned mages dont really build those. item 3146 is build by assasins, and some hybrid fighters. item 3905 is built by supports. item 3030 is built by no one atm since it garbage. And even if these were really good on mages it wouldnt make a difference since the keystone itself is still bad, and the other part of it is still utilised by autos, which mages dont really use outiside of laning phase.

M00ndanc32 votes

glacial is more of a for fun keystone, you take it with ingenious hunter and spam item 3030 anditem 3905 and trust me. the enemy is gonna be really annoyed. As for everything else. I agree AD tends to be favored over AP but I feel that from general things like runes it has to be tilted that way. not everyone can use ap but everyone can use ad. Now mages are in need of more keystones, it just has to be something impactful but not giving burst damage or sustained damage or else other roles will use it better. Comet works because it does neither but instead does moderate aoe damage that has lower cd for landing abilities. Try to think of this if you ever try and make a mage only keystone. Also it has to be ranged or else it just becomes and ambient tank rune kind of how it is now in some cases top lane. Also if you want to I have a post from a couple month ago you can read about how itemization did the same thing. Its a little long but I was suprised by the number of people who were there to discuss. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/0IRNrTcf-physical-vs-magic-damage

The Yetii Rider3 votes

What do you want? People are complaining about 'diversity' again, as if choice really matters. If Riot releases another mage keystone and that keystone is better than Comet, everyone will take it and no one will take Comet and there will be no choice. There will only be one mage keystone. It's just like how you can say there are 3 ADC keystones but ADC players will only take PTA when PTA is the best or FF when FF is the best. There is no choice between unequal options in a competitive game, you will always choose the best option.

But more importantly, what is your pitch? What could a new keystone for mages look like that does not deal damage? Comet already deals damage, and Aery deals damage more reliably. So you would need a keystone that doesn't deal damage to make it different enough from the other two. What would that be?

Jaspers3 votes

Agreed, in reality all runes should be open to all champs in some way as best they can be anyway (if you don't have CC, Aftershock is useless). I think I could get pretty much all of them to be useful on Nami for example. But if I took Dark Harvest into a SR game as Nami people might assume I'm trolling... ARAM on the other hand, everyone should take it.

Malak2 votes

we need a new mage keystone: ethereal flames

all instances of ability damage burn the enemy for additional damage over time (maybe stacking) without any cooldown

ModJango Mage1 votes

It would sadly have the same problems as deathfire touch. Something like this would be great, but it should be different.

DW Diana2 votes

{quoted}

we need a new mage keystone: ethereal flames

all instances of ability damage burn the enemy for additional damage over time (maybe stacking) without any cooldown

You mean DFT? :P

BerylCrab2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jango Mage,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7EHW59az,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-03T21:35:18.713+0000)

Precision: -Press the Attack: It is procked by auto attacks, and enhances auto attack dmg -Lethalt Tempo: It gives attack speed

  • Fleet Footwork: Heals on auto attacks and gives ms. In theory this could work, but its really not what a mage wants, its only taken on champions who really have no better options.( Viktor ) -Conqueror: It only gives AD.

Domination: -Electrocute: Its good on some burst mages, but its cd mages it horrible in laning phase. -Predator: There are like 2 champs who can abuse this very well, and no one else really uses it. -Dark Harvest: Decent on some junglers, and it is procked by autos -The new Hail of Blades: Its basically just a better version of lethal tempo, which is in domination only because there are no places left in precision. Like srsly no one who takes domination normally will go for this, it just opens up this tree for marksmen, since it gives atk speed.

Sorcery:

  • Summon Aery: Most champs can only use it to a 50% effectivesness since they cant use the shield part of it. It was meant for supports anyways. -Arcane Comet: Bascially the mage keystone(altough a lot of other champs take it as well.) Its really good on poke mages, and on some dot mages, bacuse of the cd refund, but its really bad on burst mages and not so good on battle mages. -Phase Rush: It was meant for battle mages but only Cassio on Aurelion really uses it. Its pretty bad atm.

Resolve:

  • Grasp of the undying and Aftershock: These were ment for ad bruisers and tanks. Neither of them are useable on mages. -Guardian: A support rune.

Inspiration:

  • Kleptomancy: It has never really been used by mages, even tough it could be easly procked via their ranged autoattacks. Its mostly good on ad champions who can abuse it. -Glacial Augment: Literally no one uses this one. Even if it was used it would be better on ads since it is procked by auto attacks. The active item part doesnt help it either.
  • Unsealed spellbook: Its prolly the second most common rune on mages after comet(altough not sure if it will be, considering it has been changed). I think its so common only because nothing else really works on them atm. But its decent nonetheless.

So yea. AP champions, mages in particular, could see at least one new keystone.

Don't worry, the game favors you in every other way. If you don't believe me, go play Int classes in DOTA.

JackMcSnipeyz2 votes

Mages and AP in general are much less diverse than AD as a whole. AD has melee carries, marksmen, juggernauts, divers and assassins, aswell as other niche odd picks like GP.

AP has mages (with subclasses granted but every class has little subclasses aswell) and assassins.

Big difference, you cant make a new keystone for each different mage playstyle.

DestructoDave2 votes

really trying to undervalue Electrocute and Aery I see. How many keystones do you want? Thats 3 good ones.

Damn near every ADC goes fleet. You MIGHT see PTA on someone like Lucian.

All tanks are either grasp or aftershock.

I mean what are you expecting?

Warlord Rhinark2 votes

I usually take Kleptomancy over Fleet Footwork on Viktor for a variety of reasons:

  1. The extra gold is great for Viktor seeing as how his individual Hex Core upgrades are quite expensive and doesn't have any crafting components, meaning you'd otherwise have to stay in lane for longer. Which brings me into my next point:

  2. The mana potions it gives are great for Viktor seeing as using your E to waveclear and your Q Auto to poke can drain your mana fast, especially with the new Doran's Ring changes.

  3. Viktor is semi vulnerable to ganks in the laning phase so the extra wards help him a tiny bit.

  4. The elixirs amp up his damage, something Fleet Footwork doesn't.

  5. The Inspiration tree is just (in my opinion) better overall. Perfect Timing is excellent for the free stopwatch and the 15% cdr on Hourglass. Future's Market helps get those Hex Core upgrades (and other things) a lot faster. Cosmic Insight brings a lot of utility and alternatively you can take Time Warp Tonic for even more sustain. You can also go into Sorcery directly after and get even more AP. If you went into Precision, you'd have some useless attack speed that you can't even use effectively.

I'm all for a new Mage rune being added though. My boi Fiddlesticks really has nothing going for him right now.

ModJango Mage1 votes

Seems like a good strategy, gonna try it out!

DW Diana1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7EHW59az,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-05-04T06:52:39.769+0000)

I usually take Kleptomancy over Fleet Footwork on Viktor for a variety of reasons:

  1. The extra gold is great for Viktor seeing as how his individual Hex Core upgrades are quite expensive and doesn't have any crafting components, meaning you'd otherwise have to stay in lane for longer. Which brings me into my next point:

  2. The mana potions it gives are great for Viktor seeing as using your E to waveclear and your Q Auto to poke can drain your mana fast, especially with the new Doran's Ring changes.

  3. Viktor is semi vulnerable to ganks in the laning phase so the extra wards help him a tiny bit.

  4. The elixirs amp up his damage, something Fleet Footwork doesn't.

  5. The Inspiration tree is just (in my opinion) better overall. Perfect Timing is excellent for the free stopwatch and the 15% cdr on Hourglass. Future's Market helps get those Hex Core upgrades (and other things) a lot faster. Cosmic Insight brings a lot of utility and alternatively you can take Time Warp Tonic for even more sustain. You can also go into Sorcery directly after and get even more AP. If you went into Precision, you'd have some useless attack speed that you can't even use effectively.

I'm all for a new Mage rune being added though. My boi Fiddlesticks really has nothing going for him right now.

Lol Malz mains have been stuck with unsealed spellbook most of the season and have even taken to using electrocute to have a chance of kill pressure (I say a chance because it only procs without ult from miss-play by your opponent).

Emo Twink2 votes

Considering null orb is in the arcane tree, precision should have a physical version at least. Mages need another keystone for diversity. Poke mages like comet, supports like aery, but phase rush is hard to proc for its old users, and theres no DoT one. Plus electrocute is often too iffy to proc like it used to (at least make it proc to include passives, Lux, Zoe etc should be able to proc with the bonus passive damage). I wish we could choose just more AP instead of AS for precision, it would open up runes for the second tree, or at least fleet footwork for champs in a rough matchup. It's not bad for AP but AP doesnt need the AS.

LightIsMyPath1 votes

No.. Lux passive proccing tld with e-auto is honestly bullshit for the opponent. Cute is not SO hard to proc.. The thing that makes it a bad choice is that the rest of the tree is thrash on mages

Miku Append2 votes

[sg-janna]

ZackTheWaffleMan1 votes

I've ran Grasp on tank Viktor before. The poke was disgusting.

ThunderSkelett1 votes

Why did thei make hail of blades it is just another worthless rune for assasins.Why would a assasin ever go predetor(if your not hecarim) why would a assasin ever go dark harvest when electrocute gives more reliable damage.And why would a assasin need attackspeed from hail of blades.

Doozku1 votes

The only class that primarily uses AP are mages and tanks, and of that class, only mages actually build damage. Meanwhile fighters, most assassins, ADCs, skirmishers, Juggernauts, etc. It helps that since mages are ability based, a lot of their runes can be more flexible and multi-class, while the amount of champions that are auto-attack based are much smaller and more niche so those runes look more specialized.

Footnote: Yes I know there are other champions that are not mages who build AP, but these champions are exceptions. In these cases, changes should be made to the champions, instead of adding new runes items to accomidate for an incredibly niche set of champs.

PopcornBunni1 votes

New unsealed spellbook is really strong.

Take something like summoner 4 + summoner 6 /summoner 21 to start and you can swap to summoner 3 /summoner 14 to get a kill, summoner 12 gank or just get a free back to lane, and summoner 1 going into a team fight.

Once the strong summoners are off rotation it gets a lot weaker, but summoner 7 as a second barrier or ghost is at least decent.

Battalion1 votes

I think what they should do for mages is:

Remove scorch from the secondary rune slot and place it as a keystone, reduce the cooldown, and increase the DoT to be comparable to Deathfire Touch.

Then there's:

Comet Electrocute Scorch Summon Aery Unsealed Spellbook

LordGeovanni1 votes

Press the attack - so what if its procced by auto attacks auto attack by time your second rotation comes around assuming anyone is still alive from your first rotation you get extra damage. Fleet Footwork - should be a lesser rune in the resolve tree. This is durability ( live forever ) not improved auto attacks and sustained damage. Legend Tenacity also belongs in resolve Conqueror - is like that because people were blaming Tanks for bruisers not being able to do anything in lane rather than it being that bruisers are bad because they cant opt into lifesteal because mages and adcs kill them too fast while having cc and excapes for them to use lifesteal. You also forgot that you need an auto attack to proc it but thats not a problem because Mages should be using autos any way Conq is the worst way for riot to deal with one of brusiers problems and it doesnt help them deal with mages and adcs anyway.

Domination - half of this tree belongs in other trees Electrocute - play around the cd

Grasp of the undying- I believe that people Underestimated this on ranged champions Its bad on melee champions as far as health stacking and ranged champions get half of the health so its only half as bad health stacking for the fact that you have to tank 1/5th of what a tank has to if some one decides to jump you. Again half for the healing too for the fact that you get 1/5th of the attention. Not to mention you can proc it more than twice as much as tanks in lane trades and poke battles.

Guardian- Also sheilds you. But as i see it even supports dont want this rune.

Klepto- again auto attack

breakordoom4441 votes

most adcs don't have that many "meta" choices in terms of runes, theres only 2 viable runes max for each ADC, mages are at its all-time low, with 3 working runes.

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