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Why Shaco is by far the healthiest of Assassins

TheOvermind··19 votes·1,469 views

Because when you compare him to every other assassin in the game you see how little damage he has built into his Kit. He has to buy items if he wants to burst down squishies.

A lv18 0 item zed will burst down a squishy still. ( not as effectively , Im trying to prove that these assassins have very high base damages given for free in their kits) A lv18 0 item Talon, Rengar, Katarina, Akali, FIzz they all can blow up a squishy with their base damages.

Guess what . Shaco's Q crit needs AD to actually look like a crit. and do any damage. He needs to get that infnity edge in there to amplify his Q crit. He needs that statik shiv charge to crit with his Q, The triforce to proc with his Q and a bunch of AD to make his E do considerable amounts of damage. A 0 item Shaco will Q you and u will laugh at him.

AP shaco assassin also works but you need to create lots of artificial damage: need a lichbane to make your Q do a bunch of bonus magic damage, and gunblade to contribute to the burst.

This is also why Shaco is relatively useless when behind, he cannot blow up a squishy and he cannot duel anyone to splitpush effectively either.

36 Comments

Sahn Uzal12 votes

What on earth are you smoking? Get in a game, and buy no fucking items on Rengar. Good luck oneshotting anyone.

warpenguin5552 votes

ok "proceeds to 1 shot the afk guy who just got back 25 minutes or so into the game" XD

Sahn Uzal1 votes

... Well played. http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/degrassi/images/1/19/Capt-jack-sparrow.gif/revision/latest?cb=20150322203016

TheOvermind1 votes

No he certainly won't one shot. But his damage is way higher than Shaco's without items. You gave me the strongest scaling late game assassin as an example.

Sahn Uzal1 votes

Khazix MasterYi Fizz all outscale Rengar IMO Since he relies on being ahead, once everyone is at max items, and an ADC has a item 3053 or item 3026 , Rengar kinda just dies like a bitch, Also, in lategame people are usually grouped, which makes it a lot harder for Rengar to do his job since he only gets one chance to do it right

warpenguin5555 votes

Kha'Zix is the only other assassin you can actually debate for this. Kha'Zix has counterplay that feels meaningful. Him and shaco are the only ones like this, and should be looked at as good examples when Riot is trying to make a new assassin

Spoofghoul1 votes

YES THIS !!

and for the assassin class rework, having mobility which resets upon succesfully murdering someone or damage which requires certain situations or prerequisites like isolation or attacking from behind

these things all seem like good things for assassins to have but most are overloaded with burstdamage and free mobility.

i also think they should be overall useless vs tanks, as in having trouble even dps'ing them down, but then good at finishing off low health or squishy targets

SwiftKitten883 votes

Ok lets get something straight here.. shaco is a very BALANCED assassin, certainly one of the most balanced ones if not THE most balanced one .

but he is in NO way shape or form "healthy". In fact shaco is extremely aggravating and toxic to play against. his build is SPECIALLY designed to by aggravating, he has a box that fears you. which you cant see he can turn invisible and has a free flash and he has a clone so unless you pay VERY close attention it can be extremely hard to to tell the clone from shaco (as good shaco players are able to mimic the AI of their clone's movements very convincingly)

Now i got to to give riot credit for this one... the fact they can MAKE a champion this toxic and unhealthy and and have him NOT be absurdly OP and remain even CLOSE to a balanced state.. let alone one of the if not THE most balanced assassin.. truly impresses me.

but again, that is his BALANCE.

saying shaco is "healthy" is ludicrous. Shako's design and kit make him probably the absolute unhealthiest and most toxic champ in league. (barring the times where the is an INSANE issue with a champ that is broken to the point to absurdity (is that a word?) like the current zed in 6.10 , or uydr, xin or shyvana, and yi a few patches back)

ABcmaSter2 votes

Ur just qqing about other assassins in the game. No assassin can 1 shot anyone with 0 items lel.

TheOvermind1 votes

no im not i play a lot of other assasins, You miss my point, which is that Shaco without items is significantly weaker than the other assassins without items. He is reliant on them more than the others.

fractalfantasies2 votes

I like shaco and I think he is heatlhy, but using numbers to prove a champion is unhealthy shows just how clueless you are.

An unhealthy champion causes problems which can't be rectified by tweaking numbers alone, that's the point.

Cloud2732 votes

{quoted}

I like shaco and I think he is heatlhy, but using numbers to prove a champion is unhealthy shows just how clueless you are.

An unhealthy champion causes problems which can't be rectified by tweaking numbers alone, that's the point.

Using numbers to prove a champion's health doesn't make you clueless. Numbers are facts that cannot be disputed, unlike the numerous opinions found on the boards.

warpenguin5551 votes

as long as the numbers are real i agree. last year there was a guy claiming Yasuo had an 80% playrate. he only used his own games and claim that it was the overall playrate

fractalfantasies1 votes

I mean a broken champion's kit is flawed, even if the numbers are toned down. In fact most broken champs are kept intentionally weak for this very reason

Mecha MaIphite2 votes

Saying that other assassins can burst squishies with no damage items is utter BS. If that was the case, they could all just build bruiser and actual bruisers would be useless because assassins would do everything they did plus one shot people.

Even Ekko, an assassin/fighter notorious for building tank, cannot one-shot a squishy without being absurdly fed.

sit kid1 votes

Because Shaco isnt Rengar but with his ult on a 11 second cooldown

Bill Gatez1 votes

Shaco's first auto attack after using Q, does not work with IE's critical damage increasing passive. It is treated as an empowered auto attack, similar to spell blade.

Shaco has a lot of damage. His passive is 20% increased damage when attacking from behind. He has 20% bonus damage throughout the whole game if he utilizes his passive.

You can 2 shot carries with Q - auto - auto with a fully offensive build late game. He doesn't lack damage.

RogueWill1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bill Gatez,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OZlHtqEi,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-05-27T15:29:18.255+0000)

Shaco's first auto attack after using Q, does not work with IE's critical damage increasing passive. It is treated as an empowered auto attack, similar to spell blade.

Shaco has a lot of damage. His passive is 20% increased damage when attacking from behind. He has 20% bonus damage throughout the whole game if he utilizes his passive.

You can 2 shot carries with Q - auto - auto with a fully offensive build late game. He doesn't lack damage.

Yeah but zed has 20% increased damage whenever thanks to living shadow. Shaco's passive shoudl be bigger considering he has a condition to fill or you know zed shoudl be lower since is always up.

TheOvermind1 votes

please confirm something before you start pretending the smartass. Infinity edge increases Q crit damage and so do crit dmg runes. Please.

Blumpkin Nation1 votes

I don't think stealth in this game is healthy at all when there aren't enough safe ways to counter it anymore. Shaco can easily destroy squishies with little AD because of this season having so much damage amp and little defense options.

ReshiKillim1 votes

As a Shaco main, I want to point out that there's a few misconceptions here. Shaco doesn't need IE, stattik, or a trinity. Though I usually run trinity because of all the stats and it's nice bit of burst, he doesn't need it to be successful at all. Though IE and Crit damage % Runes do scale with his deceive, they're not necessary to a majority of his builds.

I like running crit damage runes, but I don't run IE unless I'm running a Critco. You can almost get the full damage increase from IE without having to purchase it. IE is only worth buying on Critco, and not on the others.

Shaco is the most build varied jungler in the game. You can itemize him for anything, burst damage (non crit), sustained damage, crit (Nightblue for example), AP, tank, hybrid, or even as a roaming support. (Which is pretty weird but works decently if you know how to do it) Bruiser Shaco is generally more successfully than Critco, because it's less cheesy and more difficult to be outplayed as. If Critco falls behind, he becomes a lot less useful. Bruiser on the other hand, not so much.

That, and Critco dies REALLY fast if caught.

AP Shaco is divided between simple bursty AP assassin to strategic Shaco. The latter relies on usage of clone and boxes to outplay the enemy and just be confusing. Like the AD or tank Shacos, AP Shaco has just as much variability depending on the player. This also includes swapping out lichbane for some alternatives or not getting a sheen path item at all as it can mess up strategic shaco by revealing which shaco is the real shaco.

alfavhunter1 votes

{quoted}

As a Shaco main, I want to point out that there's a few misconceptions here. Shaco doesn't need IE, stattik, or a trinity. Though I usually run trinity because of all the stats and it's nice bit of burst, he doesn't need it to be successful at all. Though IE and Crit damage % Runes do scale with his deceive, they're not necessary to a majority of his builds.

I like running crit damage runes, but I don't run IE unless I'm running a Critco. You can almost get the full damage increase from IE without having to purchase it. IE is only worth buying on Critco, and not on the others.

Shaco is the most build varied jungler in the game. You can itemize him for anything, burst damage (non crit), sustained damage, crit (Nightblue for example), AP, tank, hybrid, or even as a roaming support. (Which is pretty weird but works decently if you know how to do it) Bruiser Shaco is generally more successfully than Critco, because it's less cheesy and more difficult to be outplayed as. If Critco falls behind, he becomes a lot less useful. Bruiser on the other hand, not so much.

That, and Critco dies REALLY fast if caught.

AP Shaco is divided between simple bursty AP assassin to strategic Shaco. The latter relies on usage of clone and boxes to outplay the enemy and just be confusing. Like the AD or tank Shacos, AP Shaco has just as much variability depending on the player. This also includes swapping out lichbane for some alternatives or not getting a sheen path item at all as it can mess up strategic shaco by revealing which shaco is the real shaco.

I beat a zed as AP utility shaco

He walked into a sea of boxes, killed my clone, and when he tried to run he went into more boxes, thanks to him trying to skip it earlier with shadow jump and ult jump

It was halariouse

FYI I was supporting they game so I had 3 items, the zed was fed as all hell with a full build 25 min in, he died because he was outplayed that is the power of support shaco plit push build

L0ve Is Blue1 votes

Katarina has high base damage? Let me laugh lol. The only high base damage she has is her ult and it requires set up, it's over time and isn't a burst ability.

ACENOX2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lemon Graber,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OZlHtqEi,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2016-05-27T17:33:31.634+0000)

Katarina has high base damage? Let me laugh lol. The only high base damage she has is her ult and it requires set up, it's over time and isn't a burst ability.

her Q+W+E does 315 base damage at lvl 9, her ulti is instant which deals at least 100 damage. she also has 53 base AD which isn't low.

BluePolarizer1 votes

thats actually puny base damage.

REAL base damage is Cassiopeia, Vel'Koz, Fiddlesticks, Karthus or Brand.

TheOvermind1 votes

a Maxed Q is nothing to laugh at and her qew plus thunderlords plus Q proc is also a LOAD of damage. She like the other assassins mentioned buy items to keep the snowball rolling. not because they are useless without them.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Nocturne is the healthier assassin. Shaco is actually too reliant on items to succeed, and too reliant on set up, invisibility, and critical strikes, all of which are easily played around.

Nocturne has an excellent engage tool, an excellent durability tool, and two excellent sticky tools. He has to build a combination of damage and health to be able to kill people, but he doesn't lose duels ever. He's far too mobile to be just a diving fighter though, he's certainly an assassin.

SiG DxD1 votes

healthy comes stealthed more then talon ult ,as rengar does ,without warning ,you just see him ganking with a perma slow healthy

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

hes not.

Bill Gatez1 votes

My bad, I was wrong about the Q's interaction with crit damage multipliers. I had always assumed it didn't work because of this Shaclone video I watched way back when.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K9pFySZx2fs

I build IE on Shaco and didn't even know it added damage, because I build the item so late. By the time I get it, my damage is already so high that I don't even notice the damage boost, and assumed it was from the additional raw AD that IE provides.

SlaktarTasken1 votes

The fact that Shaco DOES become useless when behind IS what makes him a healthy and balanced assassin. Assassins should always be fiest or famine, high risk and unsafe, any assassin that breaks more than one of those rules is bound to be toxic as fuck and worthy of deleting from the game... Ekko Zed Fizz

FioraWillCarry1 votes

Fizz with no items has pathetic damage.

TheOvermind1 votes

You are highly deluded. Tank fizz

FioraWillCarry1 votes

{quoted}

You are highly deluded. Tank fizz

Ever seen the kind of damage Volibear, Jax, Xin, LeBlanc, Kindred and Ekko can do with no items. Fizz ain't got shit on them.

TheOvermind1 votes

you have no clue what you are talking about

FioraWillCarry1 votes

{quoted}

you have no clue what you are talking about

Ok. Keep crying then and don't try to learn how to fight it. How the hell are you even Plat with that attitude.

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