Why are we compensating a nerf for Riven?

ExplodingFist66·May 3, 2019·73 votes·16,354 views

Broken Wings (Q) cooldown lowered from 13 at all ranks to 12/11.5/11/10.5/10 Valor (E) cooldown increased from 10/9/8/7/6 to 14/13/12/11/10

I thought compensation buffs were for champions that would be slightly gutted from a nerf, but for Riven?! This is just outrageous.

Worst part is, they nerfed the least problematic ability in Riven's kit, her shield. Instead of reducing her nuclear damage I guess they think a 4 second increase for her E at rank 1 will definitely solve it. Most high-skilled riven players don't even utilize her shield at all, it's just an extra dash on top of three others. But guess what? They decide to lower her Q cooldown, bravo Riot, now she can spam it every 5 seconds at 45% CDR (which used to be 7 at a 13 CD).

72 Comments

Meteora707May 4, 201952 votes

Most high-skilled riven players don't even utilize her shield at all

what the fuck did I just read

Inasnity ValorMay 4, 20196 votes

The fact people can upvote this post reading this bullshit shows just how utterly nonsensical the boards are. Rather, the circle jerk is so strong people don't realize how heavy a fucking 4 second nerf is early game. Like does the boards not understand how SUBSTANTIAL that is? Not to mention that being a whole 2 seconds more late game being another substantial nerf. Which hurts her target access and actually cripples her from gap closing without giving her more cd on the only other way to gapclose.

People are just so freaking... ugh. W/e bro. Explaining to these people are a waste of time.

I memba balance May 4, 20196 votes

[deleted]

Sir SaltarinMay 4, 20196 votes

Hey I'm a MF main and I think the same that Insanity Valor

This thread is just another clueless circlejerk thread that shows once again why the ~~Braindead~~ Gameplay Boards dont deserve to be treated as anything that isn't a meme

JuiceBoxPMay 4, 20192 votes

Gameplay Boards dont deserve to be treated as anything that isn't a meme

You are a meme for defending this abomination

Sir SaltarinMay 4, 20197 votes

I'll defend any champ if the complains are as illogical as this thread.

OP is literally saying that "good Rivens dont use the shield at all.*

Like, how can you guys upvote something like this ?

That's like saying that an Ahri charm nerf isn't a nerf because good Ahris dont use the charm at all lmao

Sp33d Zer0May 4, 20197 votes

"Riven doesn't need a shield because she just 100-0s you anyways!"

What OP was probably somehow thinking.

AyzevMay 4, 20194 votes

At this point we have a "boards is a circlejerk" circlejerk, evident by how you felt the need to shit on Gameplay an entire 3 times just in this thread.

Meteora707May 4, 20191 votes

by 3 months you mean 3 years right?

Inasnity ValorMay 4, 20195 votes

I don't mind APPROPRIATELY nerfing the champ. Tacking on a big ass CD on one of her much needed mobility is not appropriate nerfs. What riot should've done was cut the shield amount instead of hitting the CDR. The Q changes just changes her playstyle immensely and there'll be less double casting with the E nerfs. Imagine doing a little bit of research and trying a champion out to understand how big of a nerf this is.

Remember when they added that CDR to lissandras ONLY damage ability and she got basically neutered? This is the same concept here. You people aren't understanding the value of CDs and how big of role they play in a champion's kit. Imagine an ability that can 1 shot any champ in the game once every 40 minutes. How valuable would that ability be?

DuskDaUmbreonMay 5, 20192 votes

Nasus/Ahri main here - Riven fucking needs her shield.

Her E is her longest dash, the basis of almost every animation cancel - From the simplest WE to the incredibly complex combos, and it's her only way to actually survive lane.

Meteora707May 4, 20191 votes

eh sure the post is full of shit and clearly has no clue on how riven or balance works, this nerf will probably bring her down to about 49-50% wr, whether that's enough or not is up for debate but I'll definitely take these nerfs. thing is that this nerf probably hurts the actual good rivens more than the bad ones which is interesting, guess riot is trying to dumb the game down a little for her as well.

HopeStartsWithUMay 4, 20192 votes

Wrong. Bad Rivens were successful because they were unpunished after fails thanks to low E CD and deaths dance. Now her early is completely shit. Champs that already countered her will shit even more on her and champs that didnt counter her will be able to go even or actually trade with. Riven players must use her shield smart and better timed now. Nobody will feel anything from these Q changes because they are just a tool to cancel animation and her E is part of almost every combo. The compensation buffs are there so people don't start maxing E on Riven to avoid the nerfs. I can bet my left nut on that.

Meteora707May 4, 20192 votes

Champs that already countered her will shit even more on her

champs that already countered her? so like what, tryndamere? yeah shes really gonna have a rough time against that one bad matchup that has a 2% pick rate.

Now her early is completely shit.

oh for sure, the 4 second cd completely gutted the best early game champions early game, how will she ever trade now.

Nobody will feel anything from these Q changes because they are just a tool to cancel animation and her E is part of almost every combo.

you sound like a typical mid elo player here, you know about your champion but you have no clue about others, riven will have her Q up while a lot of matchups don't have their CDs up for trading yet so she can pressure more, she also gets to be pressured more but ya know, one sided lanes ain't all that fun anyways.

HopeStartsWithUMay 4, 20192 votes

Renekton, Tryndamere, Olaf, Pantheon, Jax, Kennen, Jayce, skill matchups like Fiora, Yasuo automatically become harder. 4 seconds is HUGE early game on because now she has 14 seconds on E. At level 3 I doubt Riven has enough CD or points that she has her Q or E below 10 secs CD. Everyone else on lane WILL have their CDs up before Riven, that's a fact. Now she can trade LESS which gives pretty much every enemy laner room to breathe and farm safely.

Sorry buddy but Riven is definitly not the worst offender on top. She becomes frustrating once she has deaths dance and I doubt that Riven has deaths dance at lvl 3. Now, once she loses lane hard she will have a much harder time to scale.

And yes, I may have finished on platin almost every season, that is indeed low elo, doesn't mean I don't understand the fucking game buddy. Don't let your bias block your braincells from thinking.

(Oh, look who calls me a "typical mid elo player", a fucking silver 4 player. Elo shaming at its best huh?)

Meteora707May 5, 20191 votes

Renekton, Tryndamere, Olaf, Pantheon, Jax, Kennen, Jayce, skill matchups like Fiora, Yasuo automatically become harder.

yeah a good riven destroys all of these easily except for tryndamere and kennen but no melee beats kennen.

She becomes frustrating once she has deaths dance and I doubt that Riven has deaths dance at lvl 3.

riven beats literally everything except kennen early game lmao

And yes, I may have finished on platin almost every season, that is indeed low elo, doesn't mean I don't understand the fucking game buddy. Don't let your bias block your braincells from thinking.

if you finish platinum every season as a riven main it does indeed mean that you don't understand the game, if you were finishing platinum with something like ap ezreal support I'd see where you're coming from but people that play mechanically intensive meta shit for a long time and rank plat have no idea about how the game works.

(Oh, look who calls me a "typical mid elo player", a fucking silver 4 player. Elo shaming at its best huh?)

https://i.gyazo.com/c38dcf112d119b3d73a5da3df2614939.png

you can recognize the hardstuck silver 4 player by using this simple trick, it is definitely not a smurf account used to try out adc.

HopeStartsWithUMay 5, 20191 votes

The moment you said Riven destroys all of them easily is where you just admitted that you have no idea what you are talking about. And I am by NO MEANS a Riven one trick, I would consider myself a Riven main while playing lots of other roles. Check my op.gg and look when I last played Riven. Well, I guess you won't have more input other than "she easily beats those champs." So, this discussion is over Mr. I hide behind smurfs to not show my real rank and elo shame others.

Meteora707May 5, 20191 votes

the moment you said olaf, pantheon and jax beat riven is the moment your skill level really started to show fam.

MèliodàsJul 13, 20191 votes

Tell me you're memeing. No way one can be this mentally deficient. Pantheon as one example can definitely beat a good riven considering its a good pantheon. If you meant a good riven will destroy a bad pantheon you are 100% correct, but if you use your brain for once you can compare kits between a good riven vs a good pantheon. Rivens basic abilities proc her passive which deals bonus dmg on the next auto attack. Pantheon has a block that he can utilize 3 times in one trade with a bit of prep. When rivens autos are getting blocked and shes getting cc'ed also getting spam q'd by pantheon who has a 4 second Q CD can she really win if he positions good? Riven used to take 2 q's from pantheon and be able to block the 3rd but now she takes 3 and blocks the 4th one. The main thing wrong with this scenerio is that this means she cant use her Valor (E) to do any engage styled animation cancels due to the fact that she would be forced to block whenever she can. Also assuming you vs'ed a pantheon before you should know how much his q deals.

Meteora707Jul 13, 20191 votes

welcome to the world where you don't actually have to be in range of every panth Q in the game :) riven just starts cloth 4 and pantheon can never do anything to her, after tabis + 6 she just straight up murders him as well.

KyojiTakajoMay 4, 201915 votes

Lmao, I guess people don’t realize that Riven’s shield is like the basis of 90% of her animation cancels. Or that her E is what makes up for her lack of innate sustain in lane. Or that her E is what makes her practically unkillable with Death’s Dance.

KadexeMay 5, 20194 votes

Just the usual stuff that gets upvoted on the boards.

Marian CrossMay 3, 201925 votes

facts. Riots golden children at it again

Sp33d Zer0May 4, 20198 votes

How are these facts?

Her shield is the most problematic ability in her kit (unlike what he said), EVERY high skilled riven player utilizes her shield for both its ability to animation cancel (which btw she can do less of now that it is a longer cooldown) and its ridiculous staying power in a fight (again, unlike what he said).

hoganftwMay 4, 201915 votes

Riot doesn't want to hurt Riven Mains when they're financial whales. Sell those skins. Who the hell cares about balance anyways, right?

TremaursenMay 3, 201913 votes

It's really beyond me. The E nerf if actually substantial from a technical standpoint, but it won't do anything to affect Riven's absolute dominance. Her E is used to get literally free trades or to obliviate poke, both of which are technically affected by the nerd, but not enough to warrant a compensation buff. Now Riven's just need to wait slightly longer before trading, that's it. Most substantial poke vs her isn't often enough to make a difference with the nerf. Now she just has to be more patient while having a far stronger all in at all ranks.

You are right though, none of the things that make her truly problematic are being addressed. Like her ultimate, which needs the time to walk back into lane to come off CD while being one of the best ults in the game. Like how her damage is so extreme she is statistically considered a Poppy COUNTER at this point. Like how CRD items are stronger than they've probably ever been and she thrives of rushing them, like how she fits in a pantheon of 3-5 champs that can break Shonen while its useless to the rest of the cast. Or Conqueror, which is still far to oppressive considering it's unjustifiable true damage that makes it a balance nightmare.

I really don't know what Riot is thinking, because at this point you can only assume they want her to be the BEST soloQ champ while also being proplay strong, which is something we are supposed to believe they won't allow to happen.

In my mind, every patch where Riven remains competitively viable while being pick/ban in soloQ is a betrayal from Riot to it's playerbase, and they should be ashamed

Irelia BotMay 4, 20191 votes

{quoted}

It's really beyond me. The E nerf if actually substantial from a technical standpoint, but it won't do anything to affect Riven's absolute dominance. Her E is used to get literally free trades or to obliviate poke, both of which are technically affected by the nerd, but not enough to warrant a compensation buff. Now Riven's just need to wait slightly longer before trading, that's it. Most substantial poke vs her isn't often enough to make a difference with the nerf. Now she just has to be more patient while having a far stronger all in at all ranks.

You are right though, none of the things that make her truly problematic are being addressed. Like her ultimate, which needs the time to walk back into lane to come off CD while being one of the best ults in the game. Like how her damage is so extreme she is statistically considered a Poppy COUNTER at this point. Like how CRD items are stronger than they've probably ever been and she thrives of rushing them, like how she fits in a pantheon of 3-5 champs that can break Shonen while its useless to the rest of the cast. Or Conqueror, which is still far to oppressive considering it's unjustifiable true damage that makes it a balance nightmare.

I really don't know what Riot is thinking, because at this point you can only assume they want her to be the BEST soloQ champ while also being proplay strong, which is something we are supposed to believe they won't allow to happen.

In my mind, every patch where Riven remains competitively viable while being pick/ban in soloQ is a betrayal from Riot to it's playerbase, and they should be ashamed

Her shield being up so often is effectively why she is so unkillable with item 3074 and/or item 3812 . By having the time of negating a fairly large ammount of damage she is able to consistently stay alive.

It also is reducing a common harassment tactic in lane of Q W E away.

And I don't see her Q being on a shorter cooldown as counteracting that.

Manly TearMay 14, 20191 votes

{quoted}

It's really beyond me. The E nerf if actually substantial from a technical standpoint, but it won't do anything to affect Riven's absolute dominance. Her E is used to get literally free trades or to obliviate poke, both of which are technically affected by the nerd, but not enough to warrant a compensation buff. Now Riven's just need to wait slightly longer before trading, that's it. Most substantial poke vs her isn't often enough to make a difference with the nerf. Now she just has to be more patient while having a far stronger all in at all ranks.

You are right though, none of the things that make her truly problematic are being addressed. Like her ultimate, which needs the time to walk back into lane to come off CD while being one of the best ults in the game. Like how her damage is so extreme she is statistically considered a Poppy COUNTER at this point. Like how CRD items are stronger than they've probably ever been and she thrives of rushing them, like how she fits in a pantheon of 3-5 champs that can break Shonen while its useless to the rest of the cast. Or Conqueror, which is still far to oppressive considering it's unjustifiable true damage that makes it a balance nightmare.

I really don't know what Riot is thinking, because at this point you can only assume they want her to be the BEST soloQ champ while also being proplay strong, which is something we are supposed to believe they won't allow to happen.

In my mind, every patch where Riven remains competitively viable while being pick/ban in soloQ is a betrayal from Riot to it's playerbase, and they should be ashamed

+1 The compensation nerfs are ??? however if I would've chosen one part of her kit to nerf, it would've definitely been her shield. This will at least give one a greater chance to snowball on her, or poke her out of lane.

Honeslty I wouldn't mind the Q compensation buffs if they'd give one more nerf to her shield, that being to it's fairly high AD ratio. It would take her closer to a feast or famine champion, rather than one who can feast but also play safe till late if need. She'll always still be a monster late now, due to DD in particular and to a lesser degree, conqueror(since it keeps getting nerfs) but hey, at least she'll have a harder time getting there. LIKE A HYPER SCALING CHAMP SHOULD.

AS I LAY FEEDINGMay 4, 20198 votes

The E part of rivens kit is just a filler for the next Q cooldown, and there is no dmg nerf lol.

Edit: its a dmg buff = more heal, more knock up, more fleeing, more jumping over walls.

HardstückMay 4, 20192 votes

True

DeusVultMay 4, 20197 votes

Riven needs a nerf, and she didnt need any sort of compensation buff, but that E nerf is Riot trying to target Rivens amazing sustain/damage mitigation atm.

Riven is supposed to be a squishy champ, but she builds CDR, get heals from Deaths dance and conq, and generally in the mid game becomes impossible to kill. Having E have 4 more seconds of CD attached to it means that it wont always be up, and it hurts even more since Riven will always go 40% CDR.

That said, this change does nothing to Riven doing tons of damage in her laning phase and then reaching that 2-3 item point where no one can touch her. In fact, it buffs her laning phase since she Q maxes and will have less CD on Q from the start of the game, hitting 3 less seconds on it at level 9.

This "nerf" is Riot attempting to address the problem by not actually addressing it, but instead make it look like they are

The thigh guyMay 4, 20197 votes

Riven’s been sitting pretty at a 54% winrate for over a month now.

Just a reminder that Ezreal got fucked for touching a 48% winrate.

FSRERMay 4, 20192 votes

And gets some power back with manamune buff.

The thigh guyMay 4, 20191 votes

{quoted}

And gets some power back with manamune buff.

Reminder. 48% winrate be 56% winrate.

Sir SaltarinMay 4, 20193 votes

Yeah and Ryze can have 44% winrate and he's one of the strongest champs on the game

Threads like this that say this:

Most high-skilled riven players don't even utilize her shield at all

Are just another prove why Riot cant balance around what the ~~Braindead~~ Gameplay Boards says

This place is a meme and will always be, the rest of the Lol community laughs when someome mentions the Boards, YouTube comments of Lol videos have more clue than this garbage forum. This place makes Hashinshin look like Einstein.

HardstückMay 4, 20191 votes

Ahhahaha Hashinshin can be either genuis or brain unhealty complainer

HardstückMay 4, 20191 votes

Dw akali disn't pass 47% winrate since her rework

Sir SaltarinMay 4, 20196 votes

Most high-skilled riven players don't even utilize her shield at all

https://tenor.com/view/omegalul-lul-gif-13450468

Sewer SideMay 4, 20194 votes

Not entirely sure how you don’t think these changes will make Riven more easily punished in lane, especially considering it’s a full E nerf, not just early game - all game.

She needs compensation buffs with that nerf or else she’d be 100% trash.

hoganftwMay 4, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sewer Side,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OZ5WaEcX,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-05-04T01:37:04.790+0000)

Not entirely sure how you don’t think these changes will make Riven more easily punished in lane, especially considering it’s a full E nerf, not just early game - all game.

She needs compensation buffs with that nerf or else she’d be 100% trash.

She has many problems and the fact that she can Q more often pretty much offsets the E nerf. If anything more Qs is going to make fighting Rivens that much more annoying. It's bad enough that she can dictate most matchups because of her superior mobility, but now she has it up more often.

Best Ekko NAMay 4, 20194 votes

Lol Riot really needs to just stop listening to these boards, or just delete the gameplay boards in general. I've dis-proven the misunderstandings and incorrect bullshit on these boards regarding Riven so many times but they are all just mentally unstable people who can't understand regardless of how much you explain or reason. It really is pointless to even post anything on a thread like this, these threads really should just be removed by Moderators.

I memba balance May 4, 20192 votes

Actually.... "They're changing her E due to the nature of her being able to place the 30% bleed effect from Death's Dance onto her shield currently every 3.6 seconds with rank 5 max CDR E. Oh and you may or may not be an "ARAM main" but when you play ranked, where you're trying to win I'd assume (despite your 38% winrate), you play mostly Riven by a GREAT margin. You realize I can look you up right? "I play every champion in the game" okay sure pal. Because that's the nature of ARAM. But you've played a majority of your Ranked games on Riven since Season 7 by a VAST margin. So don't come at me with this "you have something against Riven" like I've got this hate-boner for her. I hate her because she's bullshit and due to her popularity Riot is refusing to actually give her meaningful/impact nerfs to get her winrate/playrate back to normals levels for what is supposed to be a "high skill champ". Her numbers DO NOT REFLECT THAT"

You never responded back to me on my post. By the way, you're just a salty Riven main bitch still with a 45% winrate on Riven in Bronze 1.

Best Ekko NAMay 4, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=I memba balance ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OZ5WaEcX,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2019-05-04T06:14:08.229+0000)

Actually.... "They're changing her E due to the nature of her being able to place the 30% bleed effect from Death's Dance onto her shield currently every 3.6 seconds with rank 5 max CDR E. Oh and you may or may not be an "ARAM main" but when you play ranked, where you're trying to win I'd assume (despite your 38% winrate), you play mostly Riven by a GREAT margin. You realize I can look you up right? "I play every champion in the game" okay sure pal. Because that's the nature of ARAM. But you've played a majority of your Ranked games on Riven since Season 7 by a VAST margin. So don't come at me with this "you have something against Riven" like I've got this hate-boner for her. I hate her because she's bullshit and due to her popularity Riot is refusing to actually give her meaningful/impact nerfs to get her winrate/playrate back to normals levels for what is supposed to be a "high skill champ". Her numbers DO NOT REFLECT THAT"

You never responded back to me on my post. By the way, you're just a salty Riven main bitch still with a 45% winrate on Riven in Bronze 1.

Did you know, I also main Ekko and also I had another account last season that I played nothing but Vi games on? Personally, I saw your reasoning and didn't care to answer, mostly because many players don't even build Death's Dance. FYI, hate to burst your bubble, but the majority of Top lane players and Junglers are abusing Conquerer right now.

This even includes Ekko. https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=arcsecond

Sure, some player's do build Death's Dance, but the GOOD PLAYERS are mostly building things such as Essence Reaver and Infinity Edge because those items work way better with auto attacks.

Also yes, I do indeed play a lot of Riven. I enjoy playing Riven quite a bit and I do play a lot of games on her. As per your accusation that I'm some kind of "Riven main", you are seriously mislead. In the past, I one-tricked Riven very heavily but I have branched out over several seasons to learn many different champions, including Udyr, Nunu, Volibear, Ekko, Vi, Diana, etc. I have six different League of Legends accounts and I usually do not tryhard on this particular one specifically because it is the oldest account I have and games tend to be much more difficult for some unknown reason. The only time I ever made it to Gold on this account was when AP Udyr was ridiculously broken, and it wasn't hard at all.

At any rate, not sure why I'm wasting my time responding to you as it seems you are one of those people that is very disrespectful and can't be reasoned with so this will be my last comment to you. Good day.

ITZ ICYMay 4, 20194 votes

On the other side, let's look at it like this. With 45% cdr her Q cd changes from 7,15 to 5,5 seconds, her E cd from 3,3 to 5,5 seconds. With 40% cdr her Q cd changes from 7,8 to 6 seconds, her E cd from 3,5 to 6 seconds. So for a 2,2 (2,5) increased cd on E we get a decrease of 1,65 (1,8) seconds on Q. Tbh I think it might decrease the skill floor for her Q combos, but I don't think the reduced Q cd will affect high level OTPs that much, especially since the E nerf is going to affect them more.

Most high-skilled riven players don't even utilize her shield at all, it's just an extra dash on top of three others.

Well, that's one way to say something you are uninformed about to skew other people into your opinion. E does a LOT for her, increased mobility, sinking in damage from abilities, sinking in damage from item 3812 , I'm sure there's more uses depending on situations.

Instead of reducing her nuclear damage

Every bruiser has a lot of damage, there's a ton of people complaining that there's way too much damage in the game, it's not just her having "nuclear damage" and if that was the only problem nobody would play the game because it would be impossible to not have such a champion in your game, the problem is how safe she is while doing it.

I still think they should nerf her harder because if you get a Riven OTP then you are playing against a monster, but if they nerf her too hard and make it so that only OTPs can play her it's not healthy for the game either. Aside from Riot ignoring some problems, community doesn't understand balancing the game isn't as easy as they think it is.

jng dif victimMay 4, 20193 votes

https://res.cloudinary.com/dolstrmxz/image/upload/v1556950508/riven.png

LetMeAfkPlssMay 4, 20193 votes

riven is best league waifu

SiG DxDMay 4, 20192 votes

watch the comment to see triggered riven mains LULD

TheDärkExileMay 4, 20192 votes

Because that nerf is going to murder her early game?

U need E to double cast and now u cant use it to start fights cuz of 14 sec cd [zombie-nunu-bummed]

l love AhriMay 5, 20192 votes

least problematic ability in Riven's kit, her shield.

What the...? What's next? Ahri's charm is the least problematic ability in her kit? Zed's shadow is the least problematic? Lux Q is the least problematic?

How can you say that one of Riven's most problematic ability is "least problematic" ? The reason she is able to 100-0 you in the turret and get out with like 5% HP is because of this stupid ability.