Everything wrong with Duskblade

ExplodingFist66··63 votes·14,786 views
  • Synergizes to well with Electrocute
  • Can be procced after being seen by an enemy champion in the last 5 seconds
  • Refreshes Nightstalker passive to tell what brushes/areas are not warded
  • Slows the enemy by 99% after proccing
  • Reveals enemy wards and traps for 8 seconds (a free oracle extract)
  • Deals 80 bonus physical damage at champion level 6
  • Melee champs instantly kill wards with blackout
  • Costs 2900 gold
  • Synergizes to well with Stormrazor
  • Grants Nightstalker passive after being unseen for at least 1 second
  • Gets complained about it on the boards
  • Synergizes extremely well with Dark Harvest
  • It exists
  • Still not removed from the game ever since it got reworked in Patch 7.14

68 Comments

Arcane Blue Boi11 votes

how come item 3147 is cheaper than item 3285 item 3153 item 3071 item 3095 item 3156 item 3146 (most of damage champions build this first item) ?

wildfox999 votes

how come it have 100 more effects while giving the same damage spike

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

how come item 3147 is cheaper than item 3285 item 3153 item 3071 item 3095 item 3156 item 3146 (most of damage champions build this first item) ?

Because it doesn't offer as much as those other items?

Dream High5 votes

What lol? CDR, ad, lethality, extra burst, free sweeper, 1 shots wards and only 2900. Does a lot tbh.

DorkunedAuras8 votes

You listed multiple aspects twice, not to mention that you just listed everything about the item as if 100% of everything about the item is wrong.

Śhunpo8 votes

You missed a point, it's a crutch item for AD assassins. So long as it exists they can never be balanced properly.

DNFVixen6 votes

{quoted}

  • Synergizes to well with Electrocute
  • Can be procced after being seen by an enemy champion in the last 5 seconds
  • Refreshes Nightstalker passive to tell what brushes/areas are not warded
  • Slows the enemy by 99% after proccing
  • Reveals enemy wards and traps for 8 seconds (a free oracle extract)
  • Deals 80 bonus physical damage at champion level 6
  • Instantly kill wards with blackout
  • Costs 2900 gold
  • Synergizes to well with Stormrazor
  • Grants Nightstalker passive after being unseen for at least 1 second
  • Gets complained about it on the boards

Problem is is that ghostcrawler is still in his current position so the cancerous item won't disappear.

remakoro5 votes

You forgot this

  • Not removed
  • Exists
IDEMO NA MUDA5 votes

These are the worst type of posts. Let's rant about something wether it's an item or a champion without giving a proper idea what to do about it. We all know what's the issue with Duskblade, a post made just to get upvotes is useless. You can just rant about Duskblade and Zed and how "broken" they are to get upvotes if that's what you're looking for. Give a decent advice what should be changed and how while also making the item balanced and not nerfed into the oblivion so no one even buys it.

  • Should synergize with Electrocute cause that's not an issue, Electrocute's damage is too high
  • Should be able to proc for 1.5 seconds after seen by an enemy champion or a ward
  • Should still be the same since the point of Duskblade is burst damage while unseen making it an assassin item ( assassins - taking out of positioned targets while being unseen until action happens )
  • Should slow for 30/40% after proccing
  • Reduce revealing wards time to 5 seconds
  • Should still instantly kill wards since it would be 5 seconds long
  • Cost is fine, lethality is not, lethality should get nerfed in early game and make it a decent reliable scaling thing in the game so Assassins don't fall off that easily in late game while not being snowball monsters in early to mid game
  • Again, synergizing with Stormrazor is fine, lethality burst isn't.
  • Should remain as it is because point number 3.
  • Majority of boards are low elo players that will rant about nerfing something that they can't play against rather than just trying to improve their gameplay. For example Darius is a beast in low elo while in high elo he is trash pick. Same with Zed. No one bans Zed in D3+

Edit: Every point here is a reply to every point of yours.

Nyarlathοtep

No one bans Zed in D3+

At +diamond (lol graphs) zed's banrate is 33.6%. Even for the upper elos zed is quite hated. His winrate is also the expected for an assassin (49.5%). However, at plat and gold ( the divisions where in my opinion lol should be balanced around) zed's banrate is 50.6% and 59.3%.

IDEMO NA MUDA1 votes

{quoted}

At +diamond (lol graphs) zed's banrate is 33.6%. Even for the upper elos zed is quite hated. His winrate is also the expected for an assassin (49.5%). However, at plat and gold ( the divisions where in my opinion lol should be balanced around) zed's banrate is 50.6% and 59.3%.

I don't watch graphs for my own elo especially on any sort of websites. I am currently a diamond 3 ( was diamond 2 but demoted cause funnel used to be and heimerdinger bot are a thing now ) and in my soloQ games, Zed's not banned unless some D5 hardstuck bans him and is picked if someone's Zed onetrick.

Nyarlathοtep

Then, how can you say that in x elo (in your case mid dia) champ y is troll pick/trash pick? You never playing against him means nothing overall. He has a pickrate of 12.7%. The lowest pick rate among divs. Ofc you arent going to see him that often. Stats helps us see a champ how well he is doing. Although, stats sometimes do not show the whole truth.

IDEMO NA MUDA1 votes

{quoted}

Then, how can you say that in x elo (in your case mid dia) champ y is troll pick/trash pick? You never playing against him means nothing overall. He has a pickrate of 12.7%. The lowest pick rate among divs. Ofc you arent going to see him that often. Stats helps us see a champ how well he is doing. Although, stats sometimes do not show the whole truth.

Try to hover zed in champ selection without someone target banning him or locking him in without your teammates already flaming you for troll pick. Zed is an instant loss unless he's a mid/high dia against low dia player with jungler premade so they can snowball together. Zed on soloQ? Nope.

Nyarlathοtep

Dunno man. I never get the chance to play with zed because he is almost always banned. Now with that being said, i did get the chance in one of my recent games to play with a zed, and one against a zed (granted, both games were normals). In the game with the allied zed, he was mediocre. We did lost it tho.

The second one, was very interesting. I dont know why or how but somehow he was able to manage his cd extremely well. He got fed extremely early from a fizz which lead to him to gain a huge lead. However we managed to stall it long enough for us to close the gap and eventually reach late game. We still lost because we literally couldnt do anything. Hell because of his mobility i couldnt even kill him while he could ( i was aatrox and despite me having heavily invested in armour, yet it was for naught).

I dont know why i mentioned that. I suppose i was in need to share that experience with someone. And to remind you (in case you didnt know it) that after 570 ad, armour literally becomes useless. In the second game zed had no penetration, yet he was able to out live me because he dealt more damage than me.

IDEMO NA MUDA1 votes

{quoted}

Dunno man. I never get the chance to play with zed because he is almost always banned. Now with that being said, i did get the chance in one of my recent games to play with a zed, and one against a zed (granted, both games were normals). In the game with the allied zed, he was mediocre. We did lost it tho.

The second one, was very interesting. I dont know why or how but somehow he was able to manage his cd extremely well. He got fed extremely early from a fizz which lead to him to gain a huge lead. However we managed to stall it long enough for us to close the gap and eventually reach late game. We still lost because we literally couldnt do anything. Hell because of his mobility i couldnt even kill him while he could ( i was aatrox and despite me having heavily invested in armour, yet it was for naught).

I dont know why i mentioned that. I suppose i was in need to share that experience with someone. And to remind you (in case you didnt know it) that after 570 ad, armour literally becomes useless. In the second game zed had no penetration, yet he was able to out live me because he dealt more damage than me.

If you've played Aatrox and you came across Zed no wonder you couldn't do anything to him. Aatrox has very straight forward spells and Zed can turn him around the world like a ballerina. Also, Huge denial for Zed in late game is GA because he's in and out type of champion that hasn't got small cooldowns ( in late game Yasuo's regular cooldowns are the one you need on an assassin if you're gonna keep fighting after u have executed or tried to execute one target. GA can deny him a kill ( but situationally cause he can still delete u when u get back to life if your team hasn't made a proper move / counter attack on that note ) so you should consider getting GA if your champion is good with it ( basically if its an AD champ ). Also, The second Zed ults in the teamfight you should have 5 men focus on him the second he lands back on the map from marking and lock him / delete him since he's squishy.

Nyarlathοtep

Indeed he has. But the problem was that i couldnt tank him. Thats absurd because he had no penetration (or rather, he had lethality) so him killing me with such ease is stupid. Which is also the reason i didnt buy ga. Having a 2nd life is useless if you are getting deleted by an assassin the second you revive.

Also focusing him sound all and well, until you realise that he too has a team. Unloading everything to kill him is good and all. But his team will retaliate and take advantage of the fact that your team has crucial abilities on cd.

Also he is not as squishy as you would think. Especially the one im talking about. With edge of night and trinity (im not sure if thats a good item on zed) he had 500 extra hp for a total of 2500~ hp. Until you take into account his death dancer. Delaying a portion of the damage while also giving physical vamp. He is supposed to be a burst champ (which is further reinforced by his energy nature) yet his sustained damage was relatively high.

(a small detail that i was wrong and i have to correct. I didnt have much armour. I think i have confused with another match. Just totally ignore my statement about having high armour. My mistake)

IDEMO NA MUDA1 votes

{quoted}

Indeed he has. But the problem was that i couldnt tank him. Thats absurd because he had no penetration (or rather, he had lethality) so him killing me with such ease is stupid. Which is also the reason i didnt buy ga. Having a 2nd life is useless if you are getting deleted by an assassin the second you revive.

Also focusing him sound all and well, until you realise that he too has a team. Unloading everything to kill him is good and all. But his team will retaliate and take advantage of the fact that your team has crucial abilities on cd.

Also he is not as squishy as you would think. Especially the one im talking about. With edge of night and trinity (im not sure if thats a good item on zed) he had 500 extra hp for a total of 2500~ hp. Until you take into account his death dancer. Delaying a portion of the damage while also giving physical vamp. He is supposed to be a burst champ (which is further reinforced by his energy nature) yet his sustained damage was relatively high.

(a small detail that i was wrong and i have to correct. I didnt have much armour. I think i have confused with another match. Just totally ignore my statement about having high armour. My mistake)

That's an interesting Zed build i haven't seen in a long long while. As i said, buying GA is optional if your team can play around it and get Zed as soon as he jumps in.

dubahel4 votes

The only thing that's a bit too strong is the ability to tell what brushes/areas are not warded. Other than that, there aren't any issues with Duskblade

Get Ogre Here32 votes

{quoted}

The only thing that's a bit too strong is the ability to tell what brushes/areas are not warded. Other than that, there aren't any issues with Duskblade

It's uninteractive, unfun, and broken overall. I want it reworked.

Coming from a Talon one trick btw xd

dubahel3 votes

Melee Nightstalker damage reduced to 30 - 200 (based on level) from 65 - 320 (based on level).

They already nerfed the damage significantly, so the damage proc from duskblade isn't overbearing anymore. The phase of ad assassins abusing what is essentially the active of gunblade is over. In curiosity, how would you rework duskblade?

Get Ogre Here11 votes

{quoted}

Melee Nightstalker damage reduced to 30 - 200 (based on level) from 65 - 320 (based on level).

They already nerfed the damage significantly, so the damage proc from duskblade isn't overbearing anymore. The phase of ad assassins abusing what is essentially the active of gunblade is over. In curiosity, how would you rework duskblade?

The damage is still damn high, tbh idk how the pre-nerf DB was ever in the game at this point...

I've been thinking a lot about it, but I can't think of how to rework it. The best thing I can think of is to make it so after you come from out of vision, instead of the damage being in one auto burst, your next 4 attacks (be it autos or abilities) do extra damage so it rewards hopping out of vision and quickly hitting combos.

Not too much more interesting, but at least more healthy for the game. What do you think?

dubahel1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Get Ogre Here,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HBsNf34t,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-29T00:48:44.270+0000)

The damage is still damn high, tbh idk how the pre-nerf DB was ever in the game at this point...

I've been thinking a lot about it, but I can't think of how to rework it. The best thing I can think of is to make it so after you come from out of vision, instead of the damage being in one auto burst, your next 4 attacks (be it autos or abilities) do extra damage so it rewards hopping out of vision and quickly hitting combos.

Not too much more interesting, but at least more healthy for the game. What do you think?

I think it could work and be good for the game. Although there could be some abuse cases like lee sin (R Q Q auto) and lee sin isn't exactly fun to play against.

Get Ogre Here1 votes

{quoted}

I think it could work and be good for the game. Although there could be some abuse cases like lee sin (R Q Q auto) and lee sin isn't exactly fun to play against.

Yeah it would make other champs like fighter junglers stronger with it but idk Rito can prob think of something better

GinoSoldier3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Get Ogre Here,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HBsNf34t,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-29T00:48:44.270+0000)

The damage is still damn high, tbh idk how the pre-nerf DB was ever in the game at this point...

I've been thinking a lot about it, but I can't think of how to rework it. The best thing I can think of is to make it so after you come from out of vision, instead of the damage being in one auto burst, your next 4 attacks (be it autos or abilities) do extra damage so it rewards hopping out of vision and quickly hitting combos.

Not too much more interesting, but at least more healthy for the game. What do you think?

Give it an internal 120-90 sec cooldown like other items, or make it lower but only applicable if you hit someone 3-5 seconds after going from unseen to seen, or it doesn't work. Remove the ward instakill or make the detection window a lot shorter. Remove the slow.

Ideally i'd remove the damage component entirely and compensate champions using it for the reduced burst by giving them some extra bits of scaling on the higher-counterplay parts of their kits, but hey.

Tim From Work1 votes

I mean do people not think the items okay as an anti vision assassin item? I mean the others have a niche, youmous roaming, edge a little safety on assassination attempts, dusk should just be for clearing vision imo

Icy Hot Shoto2 votes

Clearly, you've never had a Pyke swim, dash, auto you before. With Duskblade. Say goodbye to half your health bar.

dubahel1 votes

He can't always do that and I haven't seen pyke take out half of my health bar with that combo, mostly because I main diana and she's a bit tanky.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Clearly, you've never had a Pyke swim, dash, auto you before. With Duskblade. Say goodbye to half your health bar.

Then you realise that what did all that damage was Electrocute, not the 80~ damage from Duskblade.

Icy Hot Shoto1 votes

Where did I say he had Electrocute?

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

Because that's like the only way a Pyke with JUST duskblade is going to do damage to you? Pyke has garbage tier base damages compared to the rest of the assassin roster where MOST of his damage is shoved into melee Q and hitting the E. Aftershock Pyke with JUST duskblade is going to do maybe 1/3 your health and then you just walk away since he is on cooldown for like 8 seconds.

Paroe2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Get Ogre Here,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HBsNf34t,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-07-29T00:06:30.825+0000)

It's uninteractive, unfun, and broken overall. I want it reworked.

Coming from a Talon one trick btw xd

By that logic, all items with effects that proc on basic attacks are uninteractive. I dont see you complaining about energized or muramana, which do even more damage than dusk blade at all stages of the game. Or sheen, which does more damage in the late game.

Radiant Seraph2 votes

Energized is bullshit but its items are underpowered atm. As for Muramana, you have to stack it first, and it's used by a whopping 1 champion in the entire game.

Light Burner4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Get Ogre Here,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HBsNf34t,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-07-29T00:06:30.825+0000)

It's uninteractive, unfun, and broken overall. I want it reworked.

Coming from a Talon one trick btw xd

I don't want it reworked because the item is fine the problem is in the players' mindsets. Btw if you're going to make all these claims of "uninteractive, unfun, and broken" give reasons to support your claims otherwise its just an opinion. Coming from a Zed one trick btw xd

ChaddyFantome1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Get Ogre Here,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HBsNf34t,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-07-29T00:06:30.825+0000)

It's uninteractive, unfun, and broken overall. I want it reworked.

Coming from a Talon one trick btw xd

its an item. 99% of items are "uninteractive". How is item 3285 interactive?

Items don't need to be interactive. they are power spikes. What they need is to be balanced.

Sleepcoma1 votes

If it was so broken then why don't assassins have 60-70% win rates? Actually they are usually below average. Meanwhile enchanters are always above average. Janna had literally had a 52% win rate or higher for the past 3 or 4 years. But #SilverLivesMatter

NekoniClaws4 votes

*Synergizes with Zombie Ward

Don't forget that. I've been in games with 2 Duskblades users both with zombie ward, put down like 60 wards and look at their vision score after the game. They each get like 10 - 15 free wards out of over the course of a long game. It's incredibly hard to see where they are because your ward 'expired' and maybe you forgot when you put it down exactly.

*Synergizes with champions whose counterplay is vision

From my POV the Talon that just got his duskblade STOPS ME FROM PLAYING THE GAME. Any time he's not visible on the map, I have to keep my CC spell up and be ready to catch him.

AirKingNeo3 votes

Slows the enemy by 99% after proccing

for little duration

You forgot: "Refreshes on Kha's ult"

stone the blacks3 votes
  • it exists
Sõna2 votes

Honestly, in my own /personally opinion, duskblade should be reworked into something similar to this.

Remove the true damage after enemy do not have vision of you. but reworked that into ,dealing extra damage/executional damage to enemy when enemy has lower HP like 35% or 40%, it makes more sense to me.

remakoro3 votes

Thats kinda what old db was. It was mini versions of zeds ult.

Sõna6 votes

yes.. Assasins are supposed to kill someone mispositioning/wandering around with low hp. Not all-in 100-0 with invisible ability or hide in bush to jumpscare someone..

An Enemy Sutando2 votes

Delete Duskblade. Unbalanceable item.

The Dreamwalker2 votes

{quoted}

  • Instantly kill wards with blackout

Only melee champions can do that. Ranged characters cannot.

IainG101 votes

That does not make it a good point, just less of a bad one....

Wild Geese2 votes

The old version of this item was much better and healthier. Being more expensive, but having more raw AD, a passive that procced way less frequently, no ward killer thing.

The changes to it were a mistake. It also suffers that like Ghostblade and Duskblade have the same build which are both super easy builds.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

  • Synergizes to well with Electrocute

So does item 3285

  • Can be procced after being seen by an enemy champion in the last 5 seconds

that's incredibly restrictive.

  • Refreshes Nightstalker passive to tell what brushes/areas are not warded

Now you are just listing everything about the item.

  • Slows the enemy by 99% after proccing

...for a quarter of a second.

  • Reveals enemy wards and traps for 8 seconds (a free oracle extract)

this is just you reiterating the point from the one above this the above..

  • Deals 80 bonus physical damage at champion level 6

Literlaly less than an auto attack.

  • Instantly kill wards with blackout

if you are melee, and requires you walk up to the ward to auto attack it.

  • Costs 2900 gold
  • Synergizes to well with Stormrazor

Not really. Not anymore than anything else that procs on auto attack does really. item 3078 synergizes way better.

  • Grants Nightstalker passive after being unseen for at least 1 second

This is the first point you made but you lowered the time from 5 seconds to 1.....

  • Gets complained about it on the boards

Only one i agree with.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Going to point out that yes, Duskblade synergizes really well with Stormrazor. The damage on hit is only part of that, the other part is that the lethality from Duskblade increases the amount of damage the Stormrazor proc will actually deal, since the target is negating less of it via armor.

R35URR3C710N1 votes

The problem with duskblade is there is no counter to it, not really. It adds bonus damage while negating armor, you know, that thing meant to counter physical damage? Yes, its not equal to the full armor value of a defensive item, but still actively works against the mitigation meant to counter it.

As for the -unseen- passive, you can't stop someone from going into FoW. At least with hexdrinker I can pop the shield then wait for it to clear, but it is impossible to stop the enemy from leaving vision. I feel like duskblade wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue if its proc condition was the same as serrated dirk, the killing a unit requirement. This would cement it as more of a laning/combo tool and less of an all-in all the time tool that has no real set up condition. This idea also has synergy with the ward clearing aspect of the item, allowing you to proc the passive while also clearing enemy wards in your lane for a gank.

As duskblade stands now, it is never a bad item to buy, ever, on any attack damage character.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

No, the counter to Duskblade is MOST DEFINITELY armor.

Seriously. A single armor item will negate the level 18 lethality of all three lethality items. And if you have 3 armor items to their three lethality items, they might as well not have any lethality at all. It's so incredibly miniscule to a character who actually builds and stacks armor in the same way that an assassin builds and stacks lethality that it's honestly hilarious.

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