"X" Champion has 53% win rate and 32% pick rate. Nerf needed?

Altricad·May 5, 2015·19 votes·3,278 views

A champion ( which I won't name) is being picked in 1/3rd of the games, which means even people that don't main said champion play it to success and have a GREATER chance of winning. I personally think this champion deserves a nerf, win rate alone doesn't say much, but pick rate combined? There's something that is definitely off about this champion in terms of balance.

But ofc, the minute someone says this champion's name, their mains/freelo abusers come out of the woodwork to downvote them to oblivion.

EDIT: It's an ADC

101 Comments

JustMyBassCannonMay 5, 20158 votes

"They have an average win rate and they're being picked very often."

There's going to be a popular champion, especially with meta shifts. Nerfing because the champion is popular is kneejerk and, frankly, moronic.

Dies to WolvesMay 5, 20158 votes

you shouldn't have said it was an ADC, those jinx "mains" would think you were talking about sejuani or something like that and vote yes

RichardMay 5, 20157 votes

I seriously don't know who it is, judging by pickrate alone I'll say Jinx y?

But she just had a nerf so idk.

AltricadMay 5, 20156 votes

It really is Jinx. That "nerf" barely scratched her win rate. Team fighting is back, and given some decent peel AOE crits are tearing teams apart.

Cinderhulk barely holds when jinx crits 1.5 K with 35% armor pen

JoquanMay 5, 201518 votes

A Late game god is winning late game holy shit

Gonna tell me nasus is op too?

AltricadMay 5, 20155 votes

Nasus has one of, if not THE, worst laning phases to compensate

If late game Gods are supposed to win every game, why does Vayne not have a above 50% win rate? Seems odd that only jinx gets a free pass

DJ Di0May 5, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Nasus has one of, if not THE, worst laning phases to compensate

If late game Gods are supposed to win every game, why does not have a above 50% win rate? Seems odd that only jinx gets a free pass

He used to, but not anymore. Flask+tp lets him easily keep sustained without missing much cs. He'll buy one defensive item and you can't fight him by yourself anymore.

Imo the current champions with the worst laning phase are Poppy and Veigar.

Nucleophilic atkMay 5, 20151 votes

Veigar lanning pahse really isn't that bad after the mana buffs.

Davy CrockettMay 5, 20151 votes

Say what?!

Nucleophilic atkMay 5, 20151 votes

Veigar lanning phase really isn't that bad after the mana buffs. He sucks, but he is decent just because of a number standpoint.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 5, 20153 votes

{quoted}

A Late game god is winning late game holy shit

Gonna tell me nasus is op too?

Actually Nasus is OP mid to early late game, not late game.

JoquanMay 5, 20151 votes

In my elo he is Lol

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

In my elo he is Lol

I don't know what ELO you are at, but probably low enough where ADC and APC never build a single defensive item or %pen early.

JoquanMay 6, 20151 votes

I'm gold 2, you can check by lolking or op.gg.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm gold 2, you can check by lolking or op.gg.

That's weird. Most Nasus' in Plat becomes split push machine late game, but are no threat in team fights. They can't one shot every one because AD and AP have their GA/Banshee/Zhonyas to survive well. Nasus gets kited all day long if he can't kill AD or AP in a few shots.

JoquanMay 6, 20151 votes

In my experince nasus is good at teamfights, since his wither isn't being cleansed or mikabel'd often

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

In my experince nasus is good at teamfights, since his wither isn't being cleansed or mikabel'd often

I am not talking about team fights. It's late game team fights I am talking about.

JoquanMay 6, 20151 votes

I've had several adcs and supports not get mikabels/scimitar. He's still good late game here.

Rinky DinkyMay 5, 20151 votes

I like how you put nerf in quotations when It cut her in lane combo by about 200 damage in most situations

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I like how you put nerf in quotations when It cut her in lane combo by about 200 damage in most situations

That ult combo's damage stays the same beyond Q's range.

SirsirMay 6, 20151 votes

{quoted} Cinderhulk barely holds when jinx crits 1.5 K with 35% armor pen

Wait do you want her nerfed or are you protecting her, I'm confused...

SirsirMay 6, 20151 votes

It was one of the most meaningless nerfs ever conceived.

Problem is she is too good early AND late, she needs to pick one...

BrothaMay 5, 20156 votes

I always ban Jinx and thumb my nose at my team mates who cry about a wasted ban. When a hyperscaling lategame adc has one of the strongest early games as an adc, that is a fucking problem. Watching her out trade a Lucian and Varus at level 2 is stupid. Nerf her early game to Kog'maw levels, then she will be balanced, even though she has a slow, a snare, and aoe.

EvilRabbittMay 6, 20151 votes

She is strong early and late, but weakest mid. That's why we farm so hard after we knock the first tower .

BestTristMyHausMay 6, 20151 votes

Before she got a totally beat down with the nerf hammer, that's what people said about Tristana.

Mandang0May 5, 20154 votes

If that winrate and that pickrate doesn't warrant a nerf, idk if anything could. I think the playerbase really needs a better handle on sample size and statistics to understand why even 3% higher than even is important here.

r11naMay 5, 20153 votes

I like how all the jinx mains say 53% win rate is okay.

But they will cry and moan that tanks need nerfing the majority of tanks have much lower win rates.

EvilRabbittMay 6, 20151 votes

As jinx main, season 4 not 5 as much, I want tanks buffed. Except maokai, he gives me nightmares.

Drunk RummateMay 5, 20152 votes

ADCs in particular don't require much champion specific knowledge. If you can play one ADC, you can play them all, maybe with the exception of Vayne/Kalista.

If it were a high skill cap champion like Zed, Yasuo, or Rumble then I think there would be cause for worry.

FacyMay 5, 20152 votes

here is the thing....

High Pickrate, High winrate is a factor.... now comes THE MOST IMPORTANT thing:

Is this champion hard to play? Jinx? Nope so 53% winrate is perfectly fine for her.

Lets take Riven which is 1 of the hardest champs to play good for the majority of players, shes fotm with 53% winrate, this champ clearly is too strong atm.

so much about win and pickrates.

r11naMay 5, 20155 votes

Lets take **Riven **which is 1 of the hardest champs to play good for the majority of players,

Riven? Hard to play?

Lol.

FacyMay 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Riven? Hard to play?

Lol.

Yes she is, i bet 99% of the community cant play her to a ''good'' lvl, it just doesnt look like that ingame cuz shes so overpowerd that playing her to 30% of her potential is enough to carry entire games alone.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 5, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Yes she is, i bet 99% of the community cant play her to a ''good'' lvl, it just doesnt look like that ingame cuz shes so overpowerd that playing her to 30% of her potential is enough to carry entire games alone.

She has been simple after animation cancel became easily executed.

DEmperor95May 6, 20151 votes

Well in fact that change never made it through. Her animation cancelling is still the same as it has always been.

Byakuya KuchikiMay 5, 20152 votes

found the top laner QQer

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39May 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

found the top laner QQer

Riven doesn't require skill to do animation canceling anymore, so she's not hard to play.

r11naMay 6, 20151 votes

Eh I have no problem with Riven, I main Hecarim and i wish every game a Riven came top lane.

Point is though she is extremely easy to faceroll with.

CindikleMay 6, 20151 votes

Her mechanics give her a high skill ceiling. Her floor isn't very high. Anyone can play her and understand her. But she does so many little things that are far from obvious to a new player. As well as a lot of her survivability is tied to reaction time.

The average player cannot fully handle her kit.

VenowolfMay 5, 20152 votes

She was nerfed in the last patch...

Jinx

thinking manMay 6, 20152 votes

TBH the most played champion should never have a winrate above 50%.

qetzelMay 5, 20151 votes

Actually, a much higher proportion of Jinx players are "mains" than most other champions. Check out champion.gg if you don't believe me. Hell, she has a higher percentage main than Veigar and Mordekaiser. Who has the lowest pick rate in the game? Zilean middle. She has a higher proportion of "mains" than mid Zilean does.

Based on this, we should expect her win rate to be higher. A higher proportion of people have high levels of experience with her.

manbearswineMay 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Actually, a much higher proportion of Jinx players are "mains" than most other champions. Check out champion.gg if you don't believe me.

She doesn't,she's just picked a lot,so people get a lot of games on her easily.

Hell, she has a higher percentage main than Veigar and Mordekaiser. Who has the lowest pick rate in the game? Zilean middle. She has a higher proportion of "mains" than mid Zilean does.

She doesn't it's just that zilean mains don't main him in ranked,in fact I'm pretty sure that's the case with all these champion,those who play them have a lot of games on them,just not ranked games,whereas jinx everyone feels comfortable picking in ranked.

Based on this, we should expect her win rate to be higher. A higher proportion of people have high levels of experience with her.

No she just get's picked a lot,so since a lot of players have a lot of ranked games on her,she ends up with something that falsely looks like only people who main her play her,but that's just not the case.

mvargusMay 6, 20151 votes

Manbearswine,

Meddler confirmed that the average Jinx player has 3-4 times as many plays on the champ as the average player has on a champ. she appears to have a large dedicated group of players who try to play her in every game they play. This was something RIOT considered when they came up with the recent nerf to her ult. The fact that Jinx has a large number of players who main her offsets some of her winrate as a player who mains a champion almost always has a better than 50% win rate thanks to the advantage their experience gives them.

manbearswineMay 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Manbearswine,

Meddler confirmed that the average Jinx player has 3-4 times as many plays on the champ as the average player has on a champ.

That's to a large extent because she is so strong,for example she was compared to graves,with her having 31 games per average player and him having 16,but she has a a popularity of 32%,and he has 22%,it really just seems that the most popular champions get played more,and that's really not saying much.

she appears to have a large dedicated group of players who try to play her in every game they play.

She really doesn't,I have yet to see an adc main who doesn't play her a solid amount.

This was something RIOT considered when they came up with the recent nerf to her ult. The fact that Jinx has a large number of players who main her offsets some of her winrate as a player who mains a champion almost always has a better than 50% win rate thanks to the advantage their experience gives them.

You know,they could just say what her winrates were depending on amount of games played,and just compare them to other adcs(they have the techonology),and I'm guessing they did that,they just don't feel like sharing their conclusions.

BestTristMyHausMay 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

She really doesn't,I have yet to see an adc main who doesn't play her a solid amount.

I'm an outlier, but I'm an ADC main and I REFUSE to play her, because she's always had an overloaded kit and seemed to be DESIGNED to be almost an "F' YOU" to Tristana mains.

manbearswineMay 6, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mahou Girl Mami,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OW8cTlxA,comment-id=001a0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-06T15:06:25.464+0000)

I'm an outlier, but I'm an ADC main and I REFUSE to play her, because she's always had an overloaded kit and seemed to be DESIGNED to be almost an "F' YOU" to Tristana mains.

Just pair up with a guy who refuses to play thresh then.

mvargusMay 6, 20151 votes

And I noticed you missed the point of what I was saying. Now, I might not be 100% accurate with my numbers here, I'm working off my memory and the post from Meddler was 2 weeks ago when a discussion started about the PBE reveal of the nerf to Jinx's ult. However, I do remember what he was trying to convey.

First, you are saying that you have yet to see an ADC main play her a solid amount. Um, that is what Meddler was pointing out.

Jinx is a champ people like to main, so when you do see her in ranked, its usually because an ADC main is playing her, and that person also just mains Jinx. Now think about how picks work in ranked. Mid, top and Jungle are sought after and argued about. ADC and support are often left for the 4th and 5th pick people who take based on what's still available and what they can play.

Jinx mains don't have that happen to them as often, so while a zed main might not get his champ or even his lane 60% of the time, a Jinx main might be able to pick Jinx 90% of the games they play. This means that Jinx mains tend to have 3-4 times as many games on their champ as any mid lane main manages. Experience matters and jinx players will almost always get the experience they need to do well.

Then again remembering that ADC is not sought after, many times the ADC player is not an ADC main, and the non-mains seem to rarely take Jinx. So again, the odds that any Jinx you face is a Jinx main and highly experienced tend to be good.

That appears to be what Riot noticed. The statement I read from Meddler implied that they see her as overall balanced with some well defined weaknesses and a few dominating aspects to her game. They noted that the current meta is one she is naturally strong in and that the fact that many players who main her run her often is a major factor in her winrate.

And I'd note that if you look at any champ, even ones that don't have a good overall win rate and look at the 5-6 players who play that champ the most, the most experienced players usually have win rates above 55%. If Riot is seeing correctly that most Jinx players are Jinx mains and getting more wins thanks to their greater experience.

Of course, I've noticed that you have just blown off any conclusion that doesn't agree with you, so I'm not sure you'll have read my post. But I stand by my statement that Jinx is not a problematic champion.

manbearswineMay 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

And I noticed you missed the point of what I was saying. Now, I might not be 100% accurate with my numbers here, I'm working off my memory and the post from Meddler was 2 weeks ago when a discussion started about the PBE reveal of the nerf to Jinx's ult. However, I do remember what he was trying to convey.

First, you are saying that you have yet to see an ADC main play her a solid amount. Um, that is what Meddler was pointing out.

No,I said the exact opposite: "I have yet to see an adc main who doesn't play her a solid amount."

Jinx is a champ people like to main, so when you do see her in ranked, its usually because an ADC main is playing her, and that person also just mains Jinx. Now think about how picks work in ranked.

Not really,as I've said,pretty much any adc main plays her.

Mid, top and Jungle are sought after and argued about. ADC and support are often left for the 4th and 5th pick people who take based on what's still available and what they can play.

Again not really,the higher you move up in elo the more adc becomes contested,and support,well I don't know about how contested support is but things have changed a lot since s3,it seems like a lot of people play it now(willingly),they do however have a tendency to go on the forums and pretend they are saints,go figure.

Jinx mains don't have that happen to them as often, so while a zed main might not get his champ or even his lane 60% of the time, a Jinx main might be able to pick Jinx 90% of the games they play. This means that Jinx mains tend to have 3-4 times as many games on their champ as any mid lane main manages. Experience matters and jinx players will almost always get the experience they need to do well.

Again,that's just not the case.

Then again remembering that ADC is not sought after, many times the ADC player is not an ADC main, and the non-mains seem to rarely take Jinx. So again, the odds that any Jinx you face is a Jinx main and highly experienced tend to be good.

Actually,even non adc mains seem to play her quite often,I just focused on adc mains because it reflects how strong the champion is considered.

That appears to be what Riot noticed. The statement I read from Meddler implied that they see her as overall balanced with some well defined weaknesses and a few dominating aspects to her game. They noted that the current meta is one she is naturally strong in and that the fact that many players who main her run her often is a major factor in her winrate.

"Riot noticed"? so you mean "from the people who nerfed sona for no apparent reason,now comes: logic?" yeah,no.

And I'd note that if you look at any champ, even ones that don't have a good overall win rate and look at the 5-6 players who play that champ the most, the most experienced players usually have win rates above 55%. If Riot is seeing correctly that most Jinx players are Jinx mains and getting more wins thanks to their greater experience.

Nah for those champions those are often one trick ponies and things of that sort,for jinx it's just people play her a lot,because they pick her a lot,because they see her as really strong.

Of course, I've noticed that you have just blown off any conclusion that doesn't agree with you, so I'm not sure you'll have read my post. But I stand by my statement that Jinx is not a problematic champion.

She is and she isn't,she's too strong under the aram mentality solo q has,and I'm sick of riot balancing the game around it,enough with this idiotic winrate balancing,either focus your balancing around the competitive scene,or make aram the competitive game mode.

ZidarynMay 6, 20151 votes

If it's Jinx then I must be seeing some bad ones. A couple of months ago I was winning against Jinx with Ashe and I don't usually play adc. If any adc is op it's Tristana . I have no clue as to which champ this thing is talking about, but if it's Jinx I'm not feeling it.

BestTristMyHausMay 6, 20151 votes

If you're thinking for a second that is OP since her re-work, then yes, you're playing with terri-bad people. And I say this as a Tristana main. I'm not saying she can't be played well, but she is so far from OP right now.