Diana Gameplay Update Concept

MrSc0tty··3 votes·1,273 views

It's no secret that Diana is in an odd spot role wise. Is she an Ap assassin ? A tanky bruiser? Do you go for AP auto attacking on hit bruiser? The general consensus is that she's most healthy as a dueling semi-durable damage dealer but toxic gameplay patterns are still in her kit, namely she suffers from The Akali Issue: useless til six, then capable of instant gapclosing and deleting when sufficiently fed. So, how to fix?

Step one: identify the healthy points of her gameplay.

-Three orb proc. this spell is fun and great for gameplay, a melee spell with decision making and reward for risk. I would argue that additional opportunity should be awarded to Diana if she successfully gets the third proc to encourage her to step up the assault

-Q gated ult. Simple enough, clear Counterplay, clear trade offs in mana cost for opportunity.

-Passive. These kinds of time-to-trade moves are great for melee champs.

Step two: what is unhealthy?

-The instant targeted ult burst. Straight up RQEAing a squishy and deleting them when fed feels a bit unfair. It'd be cool if she could scale in power and damage while not in instant undodgeable burst.

-the million range gapcloser. Q-R-R to another target. This is the Vi QR problem.

-The ranged early lane harass through Q. When Q is overtuned she can be a bit oppressive with the ranged harass, which is a huge problem currently in the game.

CHANGES:

Take out: the ability of her R to be used without consuming a stack of moonlight

Lower: the AP ratio of Diana's Passive

Add:

-On hit scaling. Give Diana a unique scaling on her passive to discourage extreme burst builds and encourage interesting choices. The damaging effect of any on hit item is increased by 30% if she procs it with her passive. This means Lich Bane, yes, but also Botrk, Trinity Force, Iceborn, Wits End, and Nashors Tooth. Strategic choices!

-The option for early ult availability. In situations where gapclosing is crucial, Diana's level 1 ult may be leveled EITHER if she hits level six OR if she has 2 levels in Q. Remember that her ult in itself would be much less impactful of a power spike due to the loss of double-R. Hopefully the enhanced Sheen-spike and the addition of more early dueling power (later point) would make up for the loss of power spike burst. Strategic choices, Yaaay!

-Another (different) new scaling on the third orb. In addition to the shield refresh, Diana gets a 3 second buff in which the damage and slowing effects of item actives she uses are 25% stronger. This is meant to replace Diana's second R as her cue to "turn up the heat" in a fight. It's also meant to counterbalance her new passive scaling, as items with potent on hits often lack actives and vice versa. This will make botrk a powerful item to have, to be sure, despite its lowered scalings, as well as possibly tanky items like Randuins to supplement her vacuum cc. Tactical and strategic choices!

-early game dueling tool. Add the capability to consume moonlight stacks with an autoattack rather than her ult to lower the cooldown of Q. When Diana gets into an early game tussle this should give her a bit more power while not just putting it into the low-risk application of her Q at long range. Added power while avoiding unhealthy gameplay, woo!

What do seasoned Diana players think? What would she need in order to mitigate the obviously huge removal of the targeted R? Would this be enough, or would the reward for her poor early game not be enough?

11 Comments

SerBlaise2 votes

interesting ideas. I'm honestly not too impressed by the current burst-diana. It's pretty easy to counter with magic resist, so i honestly don't find it too toxic because its hard to pull off and easily countered. So what if you Q-R-R? It's no different than any other assassin; instant death is the point of assassins; diana is just not as good of one because she has no escape.

I think Riot just needs to decide if shes an assassin or fighter. Because if she is a fighter she needs sustain and if she is an assassin she needs an escape. Right now she has neither.

MrSc0tty2 votes

There are functional fighters without natural sustain. Many use Shields, which Diana has, to trade.

See Vi and Jarvan. Or Darius or Jax for no sustain.

Burst Diana is only a problem when overtuned, like burst-Akali or burst Rengar. It doesn't change the fact that targeted gapcloser+targeted nukes feels lame for everyone but the person scoring free kills.

Sustained engage Diana is much more interesting , particularly with my little add ins. We need more fighters with meaningful choices. When do I put a point into ult? Shoot for level 3-4 when I'm giving up level 1 skills to get it? Level five would probably be standard, a "consolation prize" opportunity for a bit of bullying to make up for being bullied early. Also-can I engage with just the vacuum and try to use semi-resetted Q's to keep up the sustained damage pressure? And for that matter, what do I build?

-Botrk for the dual synergy with both my new scalings, sustain and tank busting power?

-Lich Bane for glass cannon on hit damage? Chaining to get the passive proc off with Diana's passive for Tons of Bonus Damage would be a cool skill point.

-Hydra for huge damage boosted waveclear and a bursty active for trades?

SerBlaise1 votes

Vi and Jarvan can sustain of jungle camps with jungle items. Darius and Jax are AD and can build (and pretty much 100% DO build) lifesteal. Diana is intentionally weak when building spell vamp (mostly AOE spells so 1/3 effective) or lifesteal (passive hits do not proc it, and don't proc spell vamp either). The shields are nice, but the are IMO a MUCH weaker form of sustain for fighters because the core purpose of a fighter is to ramp up damage as they fight as opposed to directly tanking damage.

I also think those items you mentioned would only be viable if she has AD scaling on abilities (the Botrk and Hyrda items i mean). LB is currently viable, but doesn't add sustain.

Overall I agree with your core concerns; I just think the sustain needs to be more direct.

MrSc0tty2 votes

I feel like which items she builds is up to the player. I often jungle Diana and find her sustain with spectral wraith pretty dang good at least equivalent to Vi.

The difference you're missing though is that burst fighters frequently don't have sustain from builds or their kit, they rely on equally bursty sustain/tank skills.

Darius is all about the wombo combo closing with the dunk. He gets almost no lifesteal procs even if he does go hydra.

Garens in fight sustain is W-a burst tanking skill. Again he wants to get in, silence, spin2win and ult, more of a burst pattern than a sustained damage one.

Vi is similar and often builds TF as her only damage item-very minimal sustain. Again, uses a shield.

Jarvan also frequently builds TF and has his method of isolating a single enemy and also has a shield.

Most of these fighters build resists rather than relying on any kind of in fight sustain. Maybe they need to buff her shield and reduce her damage, but I think the refreshing shield is enough of a sustain mechanic to get her through.

SerBlaise1 votes

I feel like which items she builds is up to the player.

Totally agree!

Darius is all about the wombo combo closing with the dunk. He gets almost no lifesteal procs even if he does go hydra.

Disagree here. Darius can rack up tons of sustain, especially in lane. hitting the active on hydra alone will give you 10-15% health back if it hits enough targets.

Garens in fight sustain is W-a burst tanking skill. Again he wants to get in, silence, spin2win and ult, more of a burst pattern than a sustained damage one.

Garen is primarily a tank; if he doesn't build tanky he can get kited pretty easily. Not really relevant to a fighter discussion.

Vi is similar and often builds TF as her only damage item...Jarvan also frequently builds TF...

True. but her shield is wayyyy stronger, and as you describe her build its more of a tank initiation build than a fighter build. I really believe that ramping damage and re-filling sustain are core on fighters. If all I have is a shield and 5 health+resistance items...I'm a tank. Maybe not thematically, but you are definitely building as a tank and will be tanking damage as opposed to ramping up damage in fights. Diana is definitely not a tank thematically (and at very least, her other build paths are generally considered to be better). She needs that synergy with 'hard sustain' that re-fills her life bar.

MrSc0tty1 votes

What about following her along with other AP bruisers then? I'm thinking here of Rumble as a prime example.

Rumbles strength lies in a shield coupled with a speed boost to kite around damage and deal his powerful AOE dots. He's got that teamfight melting ult but his damage ramping is quite similar in style to Diana's without the hard gapclose (a DoT, coupled with a ranged catch ability with some melee steroids in his overheat).

I'm only arguing this point because the only mechanic available for AP fighters to sustain in fight is spellvamp style abilities like Vlad and Swain have, and that creates unhealthy gameplay. I like burst sustain and damage avoidance maneuvers more because they create a skill decision point in fights rather than a foregone conclusion if your sustain is good enough. An Akali winning a fight by spell vamping through damage is much less fun than a Fizz with a clutch troll pole. Admittedly long sustain tends to be what AD scaling fighters roll with but AP fighters tend to have mitigation maneuvers rather than sustain ones and the sustain ones are notoriously unhealthy for gameplay. I'd rather she end up more like a rumble, Gragas, Riven or Fizz than an Akali or Vlad.

SerBlaise2 votes

I don't really see how spell vamp is any more 'unhealthy' than lifesteal. I think you prefer an assassin diana to a fighter diana though, from what you are saying. In which case....she needs an escape, not hard sustain.

GanksLikeGast0n2 votes

I agree with SerBlaise. As someone who mains jungle Diana I get more than enough sustain from spectral wraith and her shield. Since it is my job to explode things on the spot though, I constantly have to consider where I'll end up when I'm done. This leads to way too many situations where my options are "jump in, kill something, get exploded" or "don't do anything this fight." I've been able to make up for that by going nashor's+hourglass, allowing me to jump in, burst something, activate hourglass to avoid any return skillshots or AOE effects, and then rely on the sustained AOE damage of tooth+her passive to get me through the fight. This also requires me to have three items to be relevant in teamfights unless my team is significantly ahead. Leblanc, Kha, Kat, Zed, and AP trist do not have this issue, because they all have an escape of some kind to supplement their gap closer.

MrSc0tty1 votes

I'm not arguing that she needs inbuilt sustain. I'm arguing that Diana as a high damage fighter (think riven) is more healthy than DFGQRR #bigplays Diana. Being reliant on a targeted gapcloser for engage and burst is a crutch and what she really needs is more opportunities to do things in fight, not a canned escape to use after she's whacked someone with a single combo. We have Akali for that, and Akali isn't fun for anybody.

RoyceRollin1 votes

Onhit scaling - Have you thought about how potent this could make splitpush diana? You build dfg and LB anyone who comes to stop you just dfg-R-W-E-Q weave in your AA thats primed on the minion wave your pushing and bam thats a metric ton of dmg thats unescapable from long range (edit) just saw your no ring to a non moonlit part Anyways im pretty sure I saw a rioter saying they never try to design a champ to be an onhit champion

Early ult availability - might as well just switch with E like everyone and their mother has been suggesting same thing

turning up the heat- This is a weird one and rather than counter balance (its not actually a tradeoff so its not really balancing anyhting) it would more likely cause confusion about what to build. Then again how much is 25% slower of a 20% slow... idk but its negligible anyways

MrSc0tty1 votes

Not much more than current Diana? Her passive doesn't proc on towers anyway (I believe) and it doesn't make any sense that the damage amp would proc. with Lich Bane and Nashors that'd make her...marginally better at pushing than now? Not much. It'd still cost her mana. For split pushing I'd still stick to Tryndamere pretty much 100%

I mean, you might, but it's not like her E is a particularly great ult and that would make her quite dull in lane. Just land harass and SHWOOOOP here comes Diana with no other possible options. I kind of liked it as an idea for a strategic option-seeing herself laning against an opponent with range advantage Diana would need her ult ASAP, but dueling in melee she could opt instead to consume her moonlight marks for cooldown reductions to increase her trading power with Q.

I suppose the big issue I have with Diana's current state is that targeted gapclosers are boring and being totally reliant on one for both burst and engage is kind of lame. I like the decision points and micro required to get the most out of her passive and W and her E is a subtle little piece of work. But all that goes out the window when I can take off 2/3ds of an enemy's hp bar by going "QRR #bigplays". I'd really prefer to not see that become her early game as well and her E transformed into some big ult that just wins you a trade or a teamfight.

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