25 mins in Q today and now I have no time to play, TY Rito

Great Muta·Oct 3, 2016·2 votes·480 views

Had some free time to play this morning but Q games stopped it. I even got out of bed a little earlier to squeeze in a game.

6-7 minute wait.

First Q(3 mins) - I pick Yasuo Top as 4th pick. 3rd pick bans it. Never answers why or explains it. So I ban 3rd pick's pick as well. We have a midlaner who swears in Bronze he is a fantastic Lee Sin jungle and gets into a fight with the Jungler over who gets the role. After begging, someone dodges.

4 min wait

Second Q(3 mins) - Everything looked okay minus a Nasus Support. Sorry, I get burned every time someone goes off meta. Dodge. It "could work" but Thresh, Blitz, Leona or others already "do work".

5 minute dodge penalty

3 minute wait for Blind pick game

1 minute Blind pick Q - We have an Udyr top and someone dodges.

25-26 mins in Q and no game. Now I have no time to play since I only had 90 minutes or so free and now need to do other things.

TY as always Rito.

39 Comments

TequilaZombieOct 3, 20167 votes

TL;DR: Queue 1: Someone doesn't let OP, who's the 4th pick, get FotM champ, so he bans his teammate pick. More people get mad and someone dodges.

Queue 2: OP Gets pissy because someone picked Nasus support. How dare they play a champion with a 5 seconds exhaust and armor reduction as a support? He dodges.

Queue 3: Someone dodges.

Result: He complains about people dodging while he does exactly the same. Somehow, people dodging is also Riot's fault.

Bonus: 7+4+5+3+1 equals 20 minutes, not 25.

Great MutaOct 3, 20161 votes

Let's do a Nasus support for your next promo game if its such a good pick.

Riot put me with these people, so it is their fault.

Oh and I didn't know champ select takes 0 seconds.

Colgate MinuetteOct 3, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OKPnYeak,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-10-03T14:18:24.391+0000)

Let's do a Nasus support for your next promo game if its such a good pick.

Riot put me with these people, so it is their fault.

Oh and I didn't know champ select takes 0 seconds.

Rito didn't put you in with anyone. They don't specifically find troll players and say "You know who this guy deserves to be put into que with? The asshole who plays Nasus support and has a 13% winrate"

That's not how this works.

Great MutaOct 3, 20161 votes

Riot makes the matches. Sure they have a bot do it randomly with what's available, but ultimately, they are responsible. When I taught and I had to make groups out of students, I sometimes had to make changes when random outcomes were clearly going to be bad ideas.

Their matchmaking is questionable at best and a million posts here will confirm that. As I 60% winrate player, I shouldn't have been paired with people with 9% winrates, which has happened before. Silver players also shouldn't be matched with Platinum players.

Colgate MinuetteOct 3, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OKPnYeak,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-03T14:29:40.642+0000)

Riot makes the matches. Sure they have a bot do it randomly with what's available, but ultimately, they are responsible. When I taught and I had to make groups out of students, I sometimes had to make changes when random outcomes were clearly going to be bad ideas.

Their matchmaking is questionable at best and a million posts here will confirm that. As I 60% winrate player, I shouldn't have been paired with people with 9% winrates, which has happened before. Silver players also shouldn't be matched with Platinum players.

If you are being placed with platinum and people with 9% winrates that's not riots fault either.

They're trying to balance the game. And that means if your team has a platinum playing ranked with their bronze IV friend they need to match up people as best as they can. So they slap a platinum on the enemy team, give the duo que to you and throw some silvers in the empty slots to balance it all out.

Great MutaOct 3, 20161 votes

If you are being placed with platinum and people with 9% winrates that's not riots fault either.

Sure as hell isn't my fault nor the other players faults. This didn't seem to be a problem last season. Myself and a lot of others would be happy to wait longer as well if it meant we actually got a fair matchup.

They're trying to balance the game. And that means if your team has a platinum playing ranked with their bronze IV friend they need to match up people as best as they can. So they slap a platinum on the enemy team, give the duo que to you and throw some silvers in the empty slots to balance it all out.

Their balancing system is questionable and at times outright sucks. SKT was getting matched with Diamonds. In no way, shape, or form is that even. Then you go into issues with DQ and boosting and it's crap, which is why they've had to make multiple changes and are making a new system next season.

TequilaZombieOct 3, 20164 votes

Nasus support works. I wouldn't mind having one in my promos, as long as it's someone who has played him for enough games in that role to know what they are doing, their powerspikes and the limits of the champion.

It's not as great as a regular support, but he does offer things the others don't. His W makes ganking the lane almost impossible unless the enemy support is able to get us with hard CC. His E offers some nice poke and Armor reduction. In a trade it can force the enemy to stop attacking and move out of it or take increased damage. His ult deals considerable damage and allows him to tank a few tower shots if we ever decide to dive.

If you play to the strenghts of the champion, he can work really well.

Out of all the off meta support picks, Nasus support is probably the most reliable one.

Great MutaOct 3, 20161 votes

Nasus support works. I wouldn't mind having one in my promos, as long as it's someone who has played him for enough games in that role to know what they are doing, their powerspikes and the limits of the champion.

You and everyone else are proving my point. All of you are asking for experienced players in off meta roles, not Bronze players who are just making shit up on the fly. This is incredibly different from your initial statements and shows how full of it you guys are.

It's not as great as a regular support,

Then why pick it and make it harder?

he does offer things the others don't.

Like?

If you play to the strenghts of the champion, he can work really well.

Gonna be real hard to farm when you are support.

TequilaZombieOct 3, 20162 votes

All of you are asking for experienced players in off meta roles

Just like I'd expect a bronze playing Braum, Soraka, Sona or any other support to know his champion (From the 2k-ish games I've played, off meta players usually know their shit better than players picking FotM champions). You're in the same rank as me and appear to have recently left bronze as well. Unless you trust yourself way too much, I bet you'd also expect (or at least hope) that the random guy in your team knows his champion, despite of his role.

Truth be told, to make an off meta pick work the player would need more games than he'd need with a meta pick to succeed. But nothing stops it from working. Specially at low Ranks.

I particularly like this part:

It's not as great as a regular support,

Then why pick it and make it harder?

Then you proceed to answer yourself.

he does offer things the others don't.

Like?

As I said, the strongest slow in the game that is also coupled with an AS slow. Unless the enemy laner is already ahead, it's impossible for them to win a trade if Nasus' Wither is maxed. It's a 95% slow and 47,5% AS reduction.

Another cool thing is his E. It reduces enemy armor by a considerable amount (20 to 40 is nothing to laugh about, specially in the early game).

He is basicly a ball of debuffs to the enemy ADC. Sure, you might lose a trade due to heavy CC coming from the support, or have a hard time against heavy burst duos. Just like you might have a hard time against a Janna if you're playing an all inner like Leona. Nasus support has his counters and they are plenty. That's why he's not an optimal support.

He is a much more of a niche champion than most supports, but he has what might be the best supportive non-ultimate ability in the game in his W. A huge point and click ranged MS Slow + AS Slow can save the ass of your adc in so many situations. It's also a huge "Fuck You" to gankers.

In short: he can be countered, but if picked against a low burst CC + AA reliant ADC he can be disgustingly strong.

As to why anyone would pick him instead of a regular support: personal preference maybe? I have no clue.

Great MutaOct 3, 20161 votes

off meta players usually know their shit better than players picking FotM champions).

He knew him so well that he had no history of picking him on na.op.gg. That's knowing a champ well, right?

If he was a good support, he'd be picked a lot often. Braum, Malphite, Lux and Morg offer similar abilities and are or are played as supports usually.

As to why anyone would pick him instead of a regular support: personal preference maybe? I have no clue.

So I'm supposed to bet my LP and MMR, time and possible reports on a guy who might just be picking him support for no real reason? No thanks, the game is enough of a risk in a fair matchup with decent picks, yet alone a Bronze who didn't get the role he wanted and was just going to pick the champ he wanted to play anyway.

TequilaZombieOct 3, 20161 votes

Braum, Lux and Morg all rely on skill shots, which can be dodged or blocked by minions. Malph's slow at max rank is 26% mov speed, Nasus at rank 1 is at 47%. And even though his AS slow is at 50% (2,5% more than Nasus) is lasts 3 seconds instead of 5 and is appliable only on a melee range.

He does fills an unique niche.

You're always betting your LP and MMR when you play ranked. I'm not saying you should never dodge (although I am indeed saying that you can't complain about dodgers if you're one yourself). I'm saying that Nasus support has potential to work as a support, both as an offensive one or a defensive one.

EDIT: as a further point, at Silver 5 anything works. I've stomped silvers with Shaco support, which I picked with the goal of trolling ~~I was drunk and 100% sure it was a normal~~

Great MutaOct 3, 20161 votes

Morg and Lux also have stuns that freeze all movement speed period. Nasus doesn't have that.

as a further point, at Silver 5 anything works. I've stomped silvers with Shaco support, which I picked with the goal of trolling I was drunk and 100% sure it was a normal

Since are using ancedotal evidence, I've beaten Shaco supports so I guess it doesn't. How well things work are based on team comp, skill, luck, matchmaking and play.

Colgate MinuetteOct 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

As I said, the strongest slow in the game that is also coupled with an AS slow. Unless the enemy laner is already ahead, it's impossible for them to win a trade if Nasus' Wither is maxed. It's a 95% slow and 47,5% AS reduction.

ignoring the 47% ASR

Zilean has a better slow of 99% which can be given to an enemy non-stop for a while.

TequilaZombieOct 4, 20161 votes

To be fair, both slows will hit the hard cap (mov speed can't go bellow 110).

But I didn't knew zil had a 99% slow on his kit.

Colgate MinuetteOct 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

But I didn't knew zil had a 99% slow on his kit.

Yea his E when maxed is a 99% slow.

It can also be used multiple times in a row if you have low cooldowns and use the W right it might as well be perma (cause you can stun with Q to make up extra tkme before next slow)

He also has a 99% speed boost.

LoomberFootOct 3, 20161 votes

Wait if it was a Nasus support in a promo game why did you dodge having a chance to win is better than instantly getting the lost game in your promos due to dodging and if it wasn't a ranked or promo game why do you care normals are for people to have fun and try new things.

Great MutaOct 3, 20161 votes

It wasn't a promo game.

But losing lp > losing MMR. LP is based off of your MMR. You could theoretically have 100% win rate and be at bronze 5 -40 LP if you dodged every game and won every game you didn't dodge.

EedatOct 3, 20166 votes

Riot can't really control people dodging and you dodged a game yourself so I'm not sure why you're blaming them

Great MutaOct 3, 20161 votes

I'm pretty sure there's a reason we aren't seeing Nasus support in the LCS...and why out of 100 million players it is not a common pick. Pretty sure that bronze player isn't the next Faker here. Just a hunch.

Colgate MinuetteOct 3, 20165 votes

Dodges the game

Complains about extra que time

You easily cost yourself 10 minutes right there. If not more.

Also, off meta =/= bad.

Technically speaking Xerath support is off meta but you can still do it and even thrive doing it. Technically Shaco support is off meta but shit works especially in low level solo que that can hurt.

Technically Vel'Koz support is off meta but shit works.

Sure, Nasus support sounds stupid at first but I do kinda see how people might be delusional enough to think it works. You can use FOTM to proc those Q hits and just farm while your ADC is gone. Your slow will be absolute death and dear god is the support gonna hate your damage.

Yes, it might fail. But you need to trust people to a certain extent.

I played Twitch jungle in ranked once and the whole lobby wanted to dodge everyone was flaming me all through the start of hte game right until I started ganking and the shit started to pay off. I got a quadra that game (and the penta got stolen from me cry cry)

To a certain extent you need to trust that people are only playing that champ/role/whatever because they know they can win with it. Is that going to be the case 90% of the time? No. But you need to have a bit of faith.

Great MutaOct 3, 20161 votes

I'll be happy to do a Nasus support pick in one of your promo games if you wanna gamble. Have a feeling though you won't want to. Why even stop there? Let's do it for 100 games and see what happens. In the end, "it can work", right?

There's a reason why extremely off-meta picks don't pick up steam.

And ancedotal evidence = crap. I've destroyed Twitch JG before. I got promoted off of a Jhin jungle on the enemy team. There is nothing I love more than stupid off meta enemy team picks.

I trust things that already are known to work. Trusting in a player who is in the lowest 3 ranks of the game to make a pick work that is already going to have clear downsides is asking alot, in a ranked game nonetheless where my progress is on the line. Not to mention that the mentioned player is likely already struggling just to make picks work that have proven to be successful.

And it would also be a good time to mention that I've had 3 in game arguments over "creep score doesn't matter". These are the types of players you are telling me I need to trust in.

Colgate MinuetteOct 3, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OKPnYeak,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-10-03T14:24:02.979+0000)

I'll be happy to do a Nasus support pick in one of your promo games if you wanna gamble. Have a feeling though you won't want to.

There's a reason why extremely off-meta picks don't pick up steam.

And ancedotal evidence = crap. I've destroyed Twitch JG before. I got promoted off of a Jhin jungle on the enemy team. There is nothing I love more than stupid off meta enemy team picks.

If I actually cared enough to put in the time and effort to prove you wrong, I easily could.

But first I'd need 100k points on Nasus as a support THEN I'd be willing to take that shit to ranked. And I promise I'd be able to get wins off it (as I'm silver and people are easy to exploit)

And yes, there is a reason they don't pick up steam. Because people like you believe the only thing that could ever possibly win is the most in-meta-picks ever.

Before Yoricks rework he was the literal cancer of league. A joke pick a troll pick no one took that champ seriously and for good reason. But some bad ass people decided to main the guy and there were LOTS and I do mean LOTS of people up in diamond and even challenger playing 90% of their games as yorick top/mid.

If you have enough experience you can win with any champion. It's all abut how much time you've put into mastering that champion. (hence champion mastery)

When I first started playing sona I think she had like a 40~ish %%% winrate and no one fukin played her. I didn't want to play her either I thought she was shit but then I got a DJ Sona skin shard and I said "fuck it I'm gonna make use of this if it kills me" and I wound up with a 60% winrate in ranked at 120,000 mastery points. I don't play her anymore for various reasons none of which is due to her being good or bad (she's good by the way she's got a positive winrate now)

The single lowest winrate champion in the game right now is "Nunu" with 36% winrate (in ranked games between like plat and challenger I think is what champion.gg uses)

But look at this:

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/las/165834 501 nunu games 60% winrate

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/euw/44089097 846 nunu games 62% winrate

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/kr/4968823 388 nunu games 53% winrate

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/euw/21498474 674 nunu games 57% winrate

These are all diamonds/challenger/master whatever tier players with so much experience and skill with Nunu that even though he has a 30 fukin 6% winrate on overall ranked games.

Great MutaOct 3, 20161 votes

But first I'd need 100k points on Nasus as a support THEN I'd be willing to take that shit to ranked. And I promise I'd be able to get wins off it (as I'm silver and people are easy to exploit)

Exactly. You don't trust enough for a random joe to pick an off-meta pick and make it work. You have shown yourself to be a hypocrite.

But look at this:

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/las/165834 501 nunu games 60% winrate

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/euw/44089097 846 nunu games 62% winrate

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/kr/4968823 388 nunu games 53% winrate

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/euw/21498474 674 nunu games 57% winrate

These are all diamonds/challenger/master whatever tier players with so much experience and skill with Nunu that even though he has a 30 fukin 6% winrate on overall ranked games.

If you want to pair me with Master/Challenger level players above in my bronze games AKA THE 0.001 PERCENT, I'm okay with this.

Most of the people you listed aren't on NA, SK or Chinese Servers though, I can't see what position they are picking and we all know that getting challenger in LAS isn't the same as NA.

Colgate MinuetteOct 3, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OKPnYeak,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-03T14:42:03.859+0000)

Exactly. You don't trust enough for a random joe to pick an off-meta pick and make it work. You have shown yourself to be a hypocrite.

Sorry I had to get off the boards for a bit otherwise I would have continued this completely pointless argument.

I think you missed the point I DO trust a random "joe" to pick an off-meta pick.

Because I trust that they put in the time and effort to make sure they can win before they brought it into ranked. Does that work out every time? No. But is it better than assuming everyone's a complete failure and dodging games I could have won? Yes.

All this arguing boils down to this:

You're complaining about long que times while you dodge games for stupid reasons. You may have had ar eason to dodge that game (not wanting to play with Nasus support) But you can't beg and choose. You can beg for lower que times while choosing to extend your que time.

Game over man, game over.

[slayer-jinx-catface]

Great MutaOct 3, 20161 votes

I think you missed the point I DO trust a random "joe" to pick an off-meta pick.

Let me know when you are in a promo game. We will record it and discuss it after here. Would also prefer I use an account of yours so I don't waste my MMR.

Because I trust that they put in the time and effort to make sure they can win before they brought it into ranked.

This wasn't what you told me above. Why did this change now?

You're complaining about long que times while you dodge games for stupid reasons.

I want to have the best chance of winning when I play. Stupid picks disrupt that.

I've won and it is over. You've changed your words around and aren't ready to put up, so it's time for you to shut up instead.

Colgate MinuetteOct 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OKPnYeak,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-03T15:58:57.400+0000)

Let me know when you are in a promo game. We will record it and discuss it after here. Would also prefer I use an account of yours so I don't waste my MMR.

This wasn't what you told me above. Why did this change now?

I didn't?

I said this:

""""f I actually cared enough to put in the time and effort to prove you wrong, I easily could.

But first I'd need 100k points on Nasus as a support THEN I'd be willing to take that shit to ranked. And I promise I'd be able to get wins off it (as I'm silver and people are easy to exploit)

And yes, there is a reason they don't pick up steam. Because people like you believe the only thing that could ever possibly win is the most in-meta-picks ever.""""

Key part being: "But first I'd need 100k points on Nasus as a support THEN I'd be willing to take that shit to ranked. "

which means if you have 100k points on Nasus support then go ahead and play that shit in ranked. I don't care if its my promos into gold or my promos into challenger.

I will trust someone to play their role and their champion. If I didn't I'd be a hypocrite because currently I play Xerath support and I love playing it. Others don't trust me to make it work because they probably have never seen it before. (xerath being a rare champion and xerath support being even rare-r)

EndlessSorcererOct 3, 20161 votes

I'll be happy to do a Nasus support pick in one of your promo games if you wanna gamble. Have a feeling though you won't want to. Why even stop there? Let's do it for 100 games and see what happens. In the end, "it can work", right?

Why would they bother gambling it? While off-meta supports can work, they generally rely on the player actually trying to win the game.

Considering you would be trying to prove it is a bad option, you would just intentionally play poorly to prove your point.

Hell, I've played ADC while having Varus, Katarina and Talon supports before and we managed to stomp those games. This is because they were actually trying rather than trolling.

Great MutaOct 3, 20161 votes

Why would they bother gambling it? While off-meta supports can work, they generally rely on the player actually trying to win the game.

You are really just proving what my point here.

Considering you would be trying to prove it is a bad option, you would just intentionally play poorly to prove your point.

Dude, say it with me.

CAN

WORK

Hell, I've played ADC while having Varus, Katarina and Talon supports before and we managed to stomp those games. This is because they were actually trying rather than trolling.

Anecdotal evidence = poop. I'm won a game 3v5 before. Doesn't mean anything.

TyrekGoldenspearOct 3, 20162 votes

You pick Yasou top as the forth pick and are surprised when someone bans him?

Great MutaOct 3, 20162 votes

When my own teammates ban him I'm surprised after I made it my intended pick. It's a great way to piss teammates off and make your chances of winning lower. It also begs another teammate to go for revenge

GibberwattOct 3, 20161 votes

but then you ban his pick? tell me, how tf does that help anyone? like, really?

Great MutaOct 3, 20161 votes

The game was ruined for me, so it didn't matter.

TyrekGoldenspearOct 3, 20162 votes

Why dont you look at it from the other player's side?

Yasou is a super popular pick right now. The chances that nobody is going to take him before the forth pick comes around is slim to none.

If your team's midlanear was skillshot/projectile based, they likely weren't willing to take the chance, especially in ranked.

Many people are acutely aware of Yasou's teamfight potential, and they dont want to give that strength to the enemy team.

Great MutaOct 3, 20161 votes

Yasou is a super popular pick right now.

Popularity doesn't mean skill or power level. Pretty sure Zed was getting banned at 70% or so when he's only at 48% winrate right now.

The chances that nobody is going to take him before the forth pick comes around is slim to none.

So what if someone else takes him? If it's that big of a problem, you organize a pick and trade, not an outright ban.

If your team's midlanear was skillshot/projectile based, they likely weren't willing to take the chance, especially in ranked.

I'm going to highly doubt that the person banning the pick was able to do all of this in under 10 seconds when the team didn't even have intended picks. It's a reach on your behalf.

On the other hand, if you know you are getting Yasuo, you can pick people who can counter him or deal with him more effectively.

EndlessSorcererOct 3, 20161 votes

Popularity doesn't mean skill or power level. Pretty sure Zed was getting banned at 70% or so when he's only at 48% winrate right now.

Popularity means that people are liable to pick him. If you were fourth pick, then that generally means the enemy team has three or four chances to grab him before your turn to pick.

Great MutaOct 3, 20161 votes

So what? Yasuo mid is at 49% winrate right now. 49%. 51% at top. These aren't amazing numbers.

If you feel one champ is that bad that you need to piss your teammates off to avoid him and risk losing your game off of that, you might as well just dodge or not even Q up. I try to not do ranked on release days of new champs for this purpose.

No champ is worth banning your teammates pick to not have to deal with.

EndlessSorcererOct 3, 20161 votes

And? The strength of the champion doesn't matter.

If they don't like playing against the champion and they know he is likely to be picked, then they can just ban him.

That is why bans exist.

Great MutaOct 3, 20161 votes

If they don't like playing against the champion and they know he is likely to be picked, then they can just ban him.

There's 130 champs in the game. The odds of the other champ being picked aren't that good. In almost every game I play, I hear ban x in the lobby because they think he's going to get picked. And often times he doesn't. It's guessing and in this case, it was just being a dick.