Heyy someone who's not raging, let's chat. I can disagree and not have hate, usually i'm pretty mellow anyways and I love to talk actual game design
[{quoted}](name=Lord Loki1987,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O9x0pVbO,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2018-07-26T17:50:22.114+0000)
Outplay is dependent on a several factors. Assassins naturally have more outplay ability then mages due to theit hypermobility and hypercarry status in the game. They are designedto be great risk great reward champions, only currently there is little risk in it for them.
Mages on the other hand are meant to be the safe pick. They aren't as flashy but are less risky, only currently they are actually far more risky and far less rewarding then the assassins. It is this balance of risk and reward that is currently the problem
Serious question, is it healthy? Is it healthy for mages to be so safe, to have so little ability to outplay but have so much safety of kill potential. This is a competitive game and it's a battle game, shouldn't mages have more outplay potential instead of assassins getting gutted of their core itemization and runes?
They also 1 shot anything, malphite included. Don't get me wrong, they're meant to, but them the counterplay to them is meant to be a cc that nails them down and a squishiness that allows them to be...well squished lol
True, but malphite has targeted cc, which is inherently toxic
The point is a full malz combo including ult can't kill any assassin, while a full assassin combo without an ult can kill a malz. Bear in mind he is designed to shut down these assassins and be countered by other mages and yes I tend to think there is a problem. But this isn't just about malz. When a champion group are strong to the point that their counters no longer stand a chance against them, there is a clear balancing issue.
Yeah but the issue I see is that there is a champ who has a design to specifically destroy an entire class of champions without outplay potential, it's entirely more toxic. The issue on assassins is that many of the mages and adcs that they destroy actively lack versatility, which they should get buffed with. the issue with malzahar is that he negates versatility, which means he negates the impact of skillful and competitively healthy gameplay.
The current meta can easily be traced back to this, with assassins dominating mid alongside yasuo, their counters moving from toplane to deal with them, and mages trying to scale in bot lane instead (something only a couple have managed).
yeah, mages are less toxic than adcs, and can shut them down in lane, this was proven last year before the ardent meta kicked off and buffed adcs by giving them extra free stats from another champions inventory. Adcs otherwise were kinda garbage until the ardent meta kicked off in 2017
This isn't me saying "assassins OP" so much as saying if you think mages are balanced with assassins and other hypermobile hyper carries then you clearly haven't been taking notice the last few months...
I don't think mages are balanced with assassins, but I do think human minds are balanced with eachother. I think that the pilot is the issue and not the ktis between these two classes. I do think that if there is an imbalance the practical solution is actually the worst path. The practical being the easiest or "Nerf assassin burst". The best path is to buff mage utility and outplay potential at the cost of their reliability.
This does not really mean it has to be feast or famine, a middle ground is great, and arguably was why I liked ahri before they fucked with her kit. She was reliable, had a skill cap that could see you win or lose a fight against any other skill cap champ piloted by a guy in your elo, and she had value when behind. That's what healthy is to me, I think of orianna in the same light.
What i'm speaking out against here is that people are frankly raging about a situation and blaming the wrong thing. They're calling for the toxic meta that older players like me predicted to be protected. The more mechanically complex the champion roster becomes the more inherently balanced it is, so long as the champion can do it's job. The difference between taric and nautilus for example, similar kits but really fundamentally different in terms of balance, taric has to time things better, has to know what's gonna happen, and can die to skillful outplay.
We need more complexity and outplay potential, not less, if you reworked every champion and used yasuo as the good model then the game would be much healthier than if you reworked every champion and used lux as the good model
so mages need more options but that doesn't mean that assassins are too strong. Arguably the only assassins who have no counter play are all older assassins who are overdue for reworks. newer mages however still have the same issues as older mages, they land a stun and force you to watch as they line up their rotation and you can't move
to me it's much more infuriating getting a snare from a lux out of a bush than an ult from a zed, because when zed ults from a bush, you can still get out somehow, when lux snares from a bush, you see a giant laser and you're dead
Note - just spotted someone has downvotes everything you've written. Kinda sad, but hopefully they get bored xD
Yep, gotta love it, reminds me of facebook politics in which everyone who disagrees is the devil
You can flash most assassins,
You can reduce their damage by 40%, that's enough
You can absorb their burst
Enough to get past an ulti if used Properly
Enough to dodge a rotation
Enough to handle ap assassins, negates an entire ability
Big ol' shield
You don't need that extra pen if you're just dying anyways
I've seen this used in both low and high elo, it works, armor and hp is good against AD burst, it also provides lots of movespeed if you're not autoing
All provide health, the thing that stops you from getting 1shot
, besides ,
better wave clear because assassins got even a better wave clear than a lot of mages in early , and you know 
MAIN WHO PRESSES E AND IGNORES EVERYTHING AND DOES A BILLION AOE DAMAGE AND SLOW."
really? so we have to start building pure tank items just to avoid getting 1shot? meanwhile assasin buys 
