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Stupid idea: What if we just removed crit from the game..

Ralanr··104 votes·5,438 views

And just better utilize attack speed as the ADC damage stat?

Now personally I never liked critical chance as a stat in league. It basically turned all that sustained damage from marksmen into burst with made them equally capable at killing everyone. Burst is the intended weakness to squishy champions after all, so it seems odd that the class best suited for tank killing builds the most crit.

It doesn't even help them take tower since you can't crit structures last I checked. So why not just make it so their attack speed is just ramped up harder?

Obviously this causes some problems (or a lot). We've had heavy attack speed champions be a damn nightmare before (koggy before his revert) but I feel the main reason why that was so frustrating was the amount of times he'd end up critting during that bombardment. Idk, I don't play Koggy.

Another issue is (potentially. I don't understand all mechanics) the loss of damage through kiting (I could be completely wrong).

The biggest issue I'm seeing is how this effects melee champions that use or have to buy crit. Now I believe that having a guaranteed crit ability is actually fine (Talon, Jhin, yadda yadda) but kits like Tryndamere and Yasuo would have some severe problems.

Tryndamere would only be able to get a max of 35% crit from his kit. He'd have to change how his build works in order to compensate (Though I think he needs a full VGU). Yasuo is a bit trickier because he has to build crit, his Q cooldown can only go so low with attack speed.

I'm not sure how to change Yasuo so that he still builds like a melee ADC with the removal of crit. Perhaps someone else can give an idea.

Thoughts? No crit means assassins might survive a bit longer to kill the carry rather than getting bursted down. Teamfights would probably last longer and require more protection for the carry. Burst becomes something belonging to spells instead of auto attacks, thus helping to separate the damage types among classes.

161 Comments

Saianna36 votes

Or what if crit worked like Ashes?

1% of crit = 101% damage output.

100% of crit = 200% damage.

No more RNG or other bullshit.

10110011100013 votes

Because then that's just inherently not critical strike chance. The stat would have to have its name changed to "Damage Amp" or something.

Saianna35 votes

So... Just rename it?

1011001110006 votes

Not necessarily.

Critical Strike Chance is fundamentally different from pure % damage output. It requires different balancing.

I'm not saying not to replace it, just pointing out the distinction. % damage output won't scale nicely with crit chance stats.

Saianna16 votes

Critical Strike Chance is fundamentally different from pure % damage output.

I'm simple guy and i can do simple math.

20% crit means that in average every 5th hit you deal 100% damage more.

With "ashe crit" you get the same damage, just divided by 5.

In other words you simply removed RNG from critting.

1011001110004 votes

Ashe's passive has a more complex modifier, including a base 10% increased AD. And you never get that bonus damage without putting your slow on the target first, so it's still fairly conditional dps.

That and you have to consider 99% of the roster can't deal critical damage to structures, but this crit change would make it fundamentally easier and faster for them to do so, making games end even faster because adcs and crit melee carries become even better splitpushers through % damage output modifiers.

Sightless6611 votes

He's right when he says it just removes the RNG from crit. Mathematically, it gives the exact same expected dps as a crit system, just without variance. Given that the current system already uses pRNG to majorly lower the variance, I strongly doubt we'd have significant balance issues.

That and you have to consider 99% of the roster can't deal critical damage to structures, but this crit change would make it fundamentally easier and faster for them to do so

There is no reason to make this new stat hit towers. Crit doesn't right now, and the entire point of the proposal is eliminating RNG while heaving the least possible impact on balance and design, so we have no reason to let it hit structures when current crit can't. It would just be a %damage increase to autoattacks against champions. 1% new crit would equal 1% increased damage for autoattacks against champions. It wouldn't enhance on-hits either, or do anything else obvious that crit doesn't do right now.

Big Lincoln24 votes

crit items should be more like DOTA; no stacking. Different values for different purposes, and each item should offer something different.

Want to crit harder because you have a guaranteed one in your kit? Shaco Talon Rengar will all benefit from IE, then

do you want a higher chance to crit over the slim guarantee of one big crit? then you should take shiv or RFC

phantom dancer should have its crit removed entirely. I think the % reduction needs to go too but we can still do something interesting with the item

Over Innsmouth2 votes

What's stopping someone from just buying IE and RFC/Shiv as they do right now? A lock-out akin to Titanic and Ravenous Hydra?

I agree with what you're saying, but I don't think I fully understand it. Could you form an example build or two for me?

Ralanr9 votes

I think he means that crit becomes a unique passive and therefore couldn't be stacked.

Big Lincoln10 votes

crit becomes a unique passive to prevent stacking for anything more than 30% (60 in Yasuo's case, 65 in Tryndamere's)

so if you were to buy two crit items -- Shiv and IE -- you won't get 50% crit, only 30. It's probably still decent on Shaco in that case due to his guaranteed crit, but it would be a waste of gold on anyone else.

alternatively a lockout could work, since these items all vary wildly in what they offer.

Spârky4 votes

but you dont stop the fact that crit would still be RNG and super random. If someone with 30% crits 4 times in a row but te other ad doesnt there is nothing you couldve done better you just got unlucky the other ad got 4 crits in a row

KnightOfEloHell8 votes

Me as Morde:

RANDUINS, GUNBLADE, INFINITY EDGE, PHANTOM DAMCER, GG

Dengeden8 votes

Koggy was [...] so frustrating was the amount of times he'd end up critting during that bombardment.

That made me want to gouge my eyes out. item 3124 item 3091 item 3085 item 3153 item 3036 had an irrelevant amount of crit.

A Rioter once stated why they thought crit was good for the game, google that.

Dolasaur4 votes

Harshly worded, but correct sentiment. S6 Kog's W made his autos do 55% damage, which means only a 10% damage boost relative to most ADCs as far as his base/crittable AD goes. In mid-late S6, Kog was having impactful mid-game spikes with high levels on on-hit (like in the above example).

Sahn Uzal7 votes

Gangplank item 3070

Ralanr3 votes

Wasn't sure how to address GP honestly.

Sahn Uzal8 votes

People always forget about him in these Crit-Rework threads cries in Pirate

HongChongDong4 votes

If you're going to suggest the removal of the primary stat keeping ADC's relevant (outside of champions similar to vayne) then you should atleast propose something to substitute it. ADC's would completely fall apart without crit so there better be something good to give them power.

Ralanr8 votes

"And utilize attack speed as their main damage stat"

The first line.

HongChongDong5 votes

{quoted}

"And utilize attack speed as their main damage stat"

The first line.

That doesn't work. Where would the damage come from? On hit? Every single existing kit (outside of kog) would have to be completely reworked to fit around it. there would have to be a whole item update along with it to rework existing on hit items and add in new on hit items.

Raw attack damage? Doesn't do enough on its own, so the ADC class would simply become inferior to every other AD based champion.

Or I could take what you said literally and assume you're pointing towards Attackspeed becoming a stat that adds raw damage to the character much in the way AD or AP adds damage to abilities.

A method that comes to my mind would be to give every single marksman character a unique passive that completely overwhelmingly steroids the damage of their auto's but requires attackspeed to effectively apply it.

Danjeng4 votes

What if crit wasn't RNG but set. For example, with 10% crit chance, crit happens once every ten attacks. Sort of like a 10-hit passive thing.

LostFr0st3 votes

Wouldn't the loss of crit just mean that I can hit tab and calculate 100% if I can beat someone since their damage will be consistent?

deadlychuck22 votes

The magic of skillshots.

LostFr0st4 votes

I can still accurately calculate their max damage with cds.

Ralanr17 votes

What's to stop you before? Don't ADCs build just enough crit to make most of their hits crit?

LostFr0st2 votes

'most' still gives a room for outplays. Those few autos of time can be the difference between a bruiser closing the kiting gap in time and killing them, or them living to stay in the teamfight.

SugarRayMoe3 votes

100% crit builds. Cant you calculate the damage the same way?

LostFr0st1 votes

Yeah, but by that point in the game (anywhere near 70-80% crit) you already have to assume they'll always crit (max dmg) or you'll die with missing pings on 'ya. The game is also almost over by then, so there's less time for it to get stale.

Most people don't get 100% anyways since it has decreasing efficiency per point near 100%.

Adriqnohee10 votes

Lol is a game about strategy and mechanical outplays, the out come of a fight shouldn't be left to chance.

DeusVult7 votes

How is getting crit/not getting crit an outplay?? That is purely RNG luck as to whether or not you win or lose the fight. Thats the reason why Riot removed dodge

deadlychuck1 votes

You can already do that with the majority of the champions, why would you think it needs to be different for the ones which will auto attack more?

LostFr0st2 votes

because it would be boring AF.

deadlychuck8 votes

So what you're saying is that mages are "boring AF"? In fact, literally every AP champion in the game is "boring AF" by that description.

How is RNG between taking 1k damage in 2 autos and taking 400 damage in 2 autos, less boring than having to dodge skill shots?

LostFr0st2 votes

Nope, that would be taking my words out of context.

AA champs don't have many skill shots; their variable damage is tied to crit.

AD casters have it tied to abilities+autos, and their variability can be both tied to crit and their abilities (skill-shots or not)

Mages have both the skill-shot aspect and the timing/order they use the skills in to shake stuff up. They have enough other variables that their autos being consistent doesn't matter.

Both crit and skill-shots are exciting but different and that's what makes fighting/calculating the different champ types' varying max damages different.

If they removed crit they would have to introduce something else that varies in order to make AA encounters interesting.

GrReaper965 votes

Remember Korean MF? item 3072 item 3071 item 3147 item 3142 item 3036 She didnt build crit and not a single perosn complained she was "not exciting enough"

ahferroin72 votes
  1. She's an AD Caster, as LostFrost mentioned.
  2. They didn't complain because they didn't exist long enough to do so.
Sightless663 votes

Alternate view: Having duels be decided by random chance is boring as fuck. People should win based on their items, the actions of their teammates/enemies, and whether or not they use their champion's mechanics correctly.

Seriously, I've never felt excited about a crit winning or losing me a fight that I or an opponent misplayed. I really don't understand that point of view.

Stróc Dúnmharú3 votes

If you remove crits, the tank meta will return with a vengeance and it will never go away.

Ralanr5 votes

That's why I suggested ramping up the dps because dps counters durability.

Dengeden2 votes

That only works against braindead tanks who don't kite.

Ralanr7 votes

Tanks are usually the ones getting kited.

Bultz3 votes

{quoted}

And just better utilize attack speed as the ADC damage stat?

No you are 100% right, this is a completely stupid idea.

Now personally I never liked critical chance as a stat in league. It basically turned all that sustained damage from marksmen into burst with made them equally capable at killing everyone. Burst is the intended weakness to squishy champions after all, so it seems odd that the class best suited for tank killing builds the most crit.

Or they could nerf adc like they should have and refuse to instead of ultering everyone else.

It doesn't even help them take tower since you can't crit structures last I checked. So why not just make it so their attack speed is just ramped up harder?

It's for fights not towers, obviously.

Obviously this causes some problems (or a lot). We've had heavy attack speed champions be a damn nightmare before (koggy before his revert) but I feel the main reason why that was so frustrating was the amount of times he'd end up critting during that bombardment. Idk, I don't play Koggy.

Another issue is (potentially. I don't understand all mechanics) the loss of damage through kiting (I could be completely wrong).

The biggest issue I'm seeing is how this effects melee champions that use or have to buy crit. Now I believe that having a guaranteed crit ability is actually fine (Talon, Jhin, yadda yadda) but kits like Tryndamere and Yasuo would have some severe problems.

No more nerfs.

Tryndamere would only be able to get a max of 35% crit from his kit. He'd have to change how his build works in order to compensate (Though I think he needs a full VGU). Yasuo is a bit trickier because he has to build crit, his Q cooldown can only go so low with attack speed.

I'm not sure how to change Yasuo so that he still builds like a melee ADC with the removal of crit. Perhaps someone else can give an idea.

Yeah don't touch crit, you will break him.

Thoughts? No crit means assassins might survive a bit longer to kill the carry rather than getting bursted down. Teamfights would probably last longer and require more protection for the carry. Burst becomes something belonging to spells instead of auto attacks, thus helping to separate the damage types among classes.

This will only break the champions who need cri,t while only barely touching assassins and adc's. Nerf them, not other champion.

Ralanr7 votes

If crit was removed, Yasuo would be buffed to be compensated. So you're aware.

Yaśuo Main8 votes

To be honest, I main Yasuo (I have devolved into a cancer cell) and having crit be removed...

Eh? I mean it's not bad, as not bursting down people and instead fighting them like they are a tank (fight a maokai as yas) and its kinda fun.

Except when you can't actually fight tanks very well. Thats my problem

Velzard of Koz6 votes

To be honest, I main Yasuo (I have devolved into a cancer cell)

The self-reflection... Have an upvote...

Bultz1 votes

{quoted}

If crit was removed, Yasuo would be buffed to be compensated. So you're aware.

Yasuo is meant to scale off of his items, meaning removing crit would change his whole gameplay and that isn't okay.

EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votes

why would you nerf adcs right now when they're the weakest they've been in a long time?

Bultz1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Monado II,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O8nq2EN4,comment-id=00170001,timestamp=2016-12-13T01:03:40.378+0000)

why would you nerf adcs right now when they're the weakest they've been in a long time?

ADC have never been weak? They are played in every lane. Top, mid, bot, jungle. Every lane has an adc. They haven't been hit with a nerf in ages and by no means are weak.

EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votes

you don't have to take my word for it

https://youtu.be/-mgwVX71uXU?t=5m17s

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