No counterplay what so ever.
Both of us are lvl 12 and i'm a mile behind the tower, but what does it matter?
I might as well have taken my hands off the keyboard and grabbed a drink
The game plays itself when the burst is this ridiculous and the towers are so irrelevant, and that is a major turn off.
Kelg41 votesIt's your fault for not standing in fountain Kappa
Vhan876525 votesWith how snowball-y League is right now, the burst isn't so uncommon honestly. What really bothers me about this clip though is how, in situations like this where you are behind, towers provide literally 0 defense and are of no threat at all to these burst champions.
Riot puts emphasis not to give up, that you can always come back. Then they nerf towers so hard into the ground that now really they're just glorified gold holders to keep the snowball going even further. Perhaps if Tower Damage changed depending on how many enemy champions were around it or something so at least if a single enemy champion wants to go in for a burst like this, they'll at least need to make sure they can get out or else will likely die from how low they'll be after diving tower. (Just thinking completely out loud, but something should be done with towers.)
TEA Nietzsche 9 votesYeah that one turret shot should've OTK'd Rengar to increase counterplay /s
Vhan876514 votesIn this case it was only one shot, but plenty of solo dives will end up with 3 shots roughly. MF has an existing slow, Draven has his knock back, and some other ADC have some slight CC to at least try to punish champions that tower dive them. Right now though that means nothing; it's a tap on the head as the squishy target laughs at the tower shots tickling them. Not that I'm saying the damage should be enough to kill them either, but it should be damaging enough to where, when going that deep, the risk should be higher to get back out. A single tower shot is less than a smite's worth of health.
That and I mean, to be honest with Rito's balance sense, a one-shot for a one-shot seems exactly down their alley of counterplay.
TEA Nietzsche 5 votesThen go and make your own thread about that because it's unrelated to this video. This thread just highlights that terrible players blame others for their own mistakes.
Its All Skillzz8 votes[{quoted}](name=TEA Traumate,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O3VvXuFv,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-25T14:43:16.232+0000)
Then go and make your own thread about that because it's unrelated to this video. This thread just highlights that terrible players blame others for their own mistakes.
What mistake, being under your own freaking tower clearing it and then rengar just runs at you stealthed and 1 shots you under it, when he dont even got a lead or ahead, your basically tell him he shoulda been in the fountain not defending his tower, only because there was a rengar in the game. thats problem with assassins, they are brainless mobile cancer that thinks everything should just fall over to them without them even doing anything for it. they are mained by morons who dont know how to play as a team or stratagically and just going for kda and trying to feed off the weakest member they can 1 shot with 0 counterplay to most their kits.
TEA Nietzsche 13 votes[{quoted}](name=Its All Skillzz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O3VvXuFv,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-25T14:47:37.597+0000)
What mistake, being under your own freaking tower clearing it and then rengar just runs at you stealthed and 1 shots you under it,
You guys repeat that he is under his 'own freaking tower' - but what do you expect the tower to do? Stun the Rengar? 100%true damage? Perm root?
when he dont even got a lead or ahead, your basically tell him he shoulda been in the fountain not defending his tower,
First things first: Rengar was 10/2 at the point of the clip. He was massively ahead and was fully stacked.
He is playing MF - one of the few (if not only) ADC with neither mobility nor hard CC. In turn for that he has a strong laning phase and teamfight ultimate, so why doesn't he utilize that by being grouped up with his team?
Lets take a look at what his team is doing, Garen is splitting (alright), Morgana and Jax are both defending botlane t1 vs Vladimir. Why? Why is Morgana defending that turret instead of sticking with MF? Do Jax and Morgana have kill pressure vs Vladimir? Maybe, but not if Rengar is there. And if Rengar is not there then he will kill MF.
TL;DR: terrible decisionmaking lead to MF getting killed without summoners by Rengar with ultimate. Trying to blame balance is ridiculous, MF is the arguably easiest target for any assassin (I literally can't think of an easier one) and she had no sums. OF COURSE she gets oneshot.
only because there was a rengar in the game. thats problem with assassins, they are brainless mobile cancer that thinks everything should just fall over to them without them even doing anything for it. they are mained by morons who dont know how to play as a team or stratagically and just going for kda and trying to feed off the weakest member they can 1 shot with 0 counterplay to most their kits.
translation: I can't play against assassins. If you had any clue about how to play the game strategically you would look at this clip and wonder wtf everyone is doing.
Leto GT2 votesNobody would have saved mf at this point anyway.
My Waifu Vanilla2 votesThe game should have never gotten to that point. That Rengar had most of his teams gold of course he was going to one shot someone. Weren't people complaining about one person having no impact on the game?
AmWhaleIRL3 votes[{quoted}](name=TEA Traumate,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O3VvXuFv,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-25T15:03:58.678+0000)
You guys repeat that he is under his 'own freaking tower' - but what do you expect the tower to do? Stun the Rengar? 100%true damage? Perm root?
First things first: Rengar was 10/2 at the point of the clip. He was massively ahead and was fully stacked.
He is playing MF - one of the few (if not only) ADC with neither mobility nor hard CC. In turn for that he has a strong laning phase and teamfight ultimate, so why doesn't he utilize that by being grouped up with his team?
Lets take a look at what his team is doing, Garen is splitting (alright), Morgana and Jax are both defending botlane t1 vs Vladimir. Why? Why is Morgana defending that turret instead of sticking with MF? Do Jax and Morgana have kill pressure vs Vladimir? Maybe, but not if Rengar is there. And if Rengar is not there then he will kill MF.
TL;DR: terrible decisionmaking lead to MF getting killed without summoners by Rengar with ultimate. Trying to blame balance is ridiculous, MF is the arguably easiest target for any assassin (I literally can't think of an easier one) and she had no sums. OF COURSE she gets oneshot.
translation: I can't play against assassins. If you had any clue about how to play the game strategically you would look at this clip and wonder wtf everyone is doing.
Despite the fact that you undoubtedly proved the op wrong in every argument, it still doesn't matter. People will still complain that there was no counterplay and MF definitely should have lived there. Just because you're going to look at this from a logical point of view doesn't mean everybody else will. And that's exactly why Riot doesn't balance the game around people's complaints on the boards. And I don't blame them for being as sparse as they are on here. I would be too after seeing biased illogical posts like these being upvoted on the boards.
wildfox993 votestowers provide literally 0 defense and are of no threat at all to these burst champions.
remember when towers were used to give a shield?
Ignika D20 votesyou coud stay near the under lvl support so he coud grab a double kill
TEA Nietzsche 13 votesRengar was 10/2
OP had no boots
OP had no defensive items
Rengar just hit a massive powerspike in Stormrazer and Duskblade
MF is quite literally the worst champions against assassins as she has got neither hard CC or mobility (but makes up for it with her ability to oneshot entire teams in teamfights)
Morgana and Jax are busy jerking off 2v1 against Vlad
Looking at this clip makes me want to add a few more deaths to MF's deathcounter.
RainXBlade7 votesSo you mean to say that as soon as Rengar is in a game, some unlucky guy gets to be one-shot by him no matter what?
Wow, such healthy gameplay!
TEA Nietzsche 2 votesSo you mean to say that as soon as Rengar is in a game, some unlucky guy gets to be one-shot by him no matter what?
Wow, such healthy gameplay!
If Rengar being in the game means to you that he will have 10 kills at minute 19 (when he has no gank potential pre6) then you seriously need to stop feeding the kitty - even if it asks nicely.
Its All Skillzz12 votesIn b4 assassin mains come in here an say you was out position, you shoulda been with your team ect ect, https://youtu.be/QN-AMtj2glk Also this is how i deal with most assassins, kill them before they kill you.
Kurt Hyzan8 voteshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx9AuXApH8c
Beware the 
, doesn't always work
GigglesO8 votesYea riot is catering to assassin mains that keep saying "If I can't 100-0 you and get out I'm not viable"
It doesn't matter if you have a tower, it doesn't matter if you have a support, it doesn't matter if you are well protected, "if they can't 100-0 you they are not viable"
Fuck assassin mains, and fuck riot for catering to this gamestyle.
gabetheguy2 votes[{quoted}](name=Its All Skillzz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O3VvXuFv,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-06-25T12:11:05.948+0000)
In b4 assassin mains come in here an say you was out position, you shoulda been with your team ect ect, https://youtu.be/QN-AMtj2glk Also this is how i deal with most assassins, kill them before they kill you.
but she literally was out of position, genius.
Kurt Hyzan11 votesI wish tower felt like defending your team in case an enemy is fed. I mean in every game I've ever played, when there's a tower defense mode, towers actually 3/4 shot people. Here that guy might have what ? 
(I'm not even sure) ? and see the damage tower deals to him.
Wait LMAO, rewatched it. The tower only shot him one time actually, and it was after he killed you and ran away.
DoktorKaiser10 votesThe worst thing is that this Rengar burst is actually mediocre, I have seen Rengars who quite literally 1 shot squishies from their ult , maybe ult+ 1q . Now that is fucking pathetic...
DirigoX6 votesbump rengar has one of the worst "champion identities" in the game. that being "insta kill any non tank from stealth and range with a leap"
bbQsauçe5 votes[deleted]
Amoc5 votesImagine having a support close to you.
Hurr durr, i want to be able to survive an assassin as a squishy ADC without defensive items.
You got picked by an assassin, deal with it. If morgana was with you, or if you had summoners you would have survived.
Most of the supports in the game wouldn't have saved that. He literally died in like 0.5 seconds to point-click abilities.
Like forget even that this was an ADC. Anything would have died to that short of someone prioritizing tank items. That's literally a 0.5s 100>0 point-click combo. I mean it's Rengar, who snowballs and does that crap better than almost anyone, but it's one of those binary situations where he stat-checks with Duskblade and can then point-click delete his enemies, isolated or not.
bbQsauçe5 votes[deleted]
Amoc4 votesMost supports can peel that off with ease. You can see rengar while invis because he's under your tower, morgana could've rooted him, janna could have tornadoed him, braum could've W her and ult him, lulu... no need to explain for lulu. Nami could've ulted and/or bubbled, nautilus could've perma CCd him, leona same etc. etc.
Let's not forget about exhaust, that basically nullifies any all-in every 3 minutes.
Morgana could have rooted him, as long as she didn't miss her bind. As a Morgana main, he came in so fast that she had literally 1 second to put herself in between her carry and Rengar. Even then, Rengar could have just jumped her instead and deleted her instead. Whether MF gets the kill after that is a matter of how much damage she does and how quickly she reacts. Either way, it's a pretty balogna situation.
Lulu and Taric could have saved her, but then again the burst window was less than half a second. You'd have had to almost pre-emptively ult, in which case Rengar just turns around and leaves.
That much damage, that quickly and with point-click abilities just isn't fun to play against.
bbQsauçe3 votes[deleted]
Amoc4 votesSo you want to miss morgana's bind and still be able to survive an assassin? If you miss it's fair that you get killed. And nope, it's not worth for the rengar to trade deaths with the support, definitely not.
The burst window wasn't 0.5s what the fuck? Between the time Rengar got revealed by the turret and killed MF, it passed at least 2.5 seconds. Enough time for any support in the game to peel him off.
Do you know what the "burst window" even means? You don't count the part when Rengar is just running towards MF. Wow. The burst window is the time between when she's first hit, and then dies.
As for Morgana missing her bind, I never said anything of the sort. I only said that Rengar's combo is almost literally the most brain-dead gameplay in LoL, whereas the supposed counterplay is for a support to land a skillshot at an acute angle against a fast-moving assassin with a large leap. Brilliant.
This, of course, is just the requirement for Rengar not to win that 2v1.
bbQsauçe4 votes[deleted]
Amoc3 votesThen you better specify that because it's extremely misleading, you make it seems like they only had 0.5s to react when they actually got 2.5-3, which is a lot unless there's a sloth playing.
Yes, that's the only counterplay. Other than building armor. Better drafting. Heals. Shields. Exhaust. Flash.
Yes, drafting is counterplay in this game, if you draft 0 peel against an assassin you are at a disadvantage, that's how it works.
No doubt. I mean draft strategy is one of the most interesting parts of the game IMO. Poor drafting is one of the most frustrating parts of bronze through gold elo (I've never been any higher). Let's face it though - bad drafts happen.
When a champ just point-clicks and deletes opponents via stats, however, there's little to no mechanical counterplay to that, and that's not great design. You can't really outsmart that. You can't bait it, dodge it or turn it around. It's literally a matter of you dying to point-click if you're in range via stat checks. Like even Zed's damage takes a few moments to go through. If Rengar pounces from a bush when he's fed, folks just die immediately and there's no time to react.
bbQsauçe2 votes[deleted]
Amoc1 votesThere's no mechanical counterplay to a lot of champions, that's how the game works. Counterplay exists in the form of understanding that if you're a squishy and alone against an assassin you're gonna die.
If you realize that, and don't play alone when an assassin is missing from the map, you're gonna be okay.
The game shouldn't work like that. That's kind of the point. We're not complaining about Rengar specifically here. We're complaining about brain-dead 100>0 point-clicks. It's really shitty gameplay. It's not even a matter of MF dying to a Rengar 1v1. That's ALWAYS been the case. The problem is MF_ being instantly deleted_ by impossible-to-fail point-click combos.
bbQsauçe2 votes[deleted]
Amoc2 votesThere are also point and click CC abiities
. Or point and click burst mages that remove an entire team from the game
.
It's how the game works
Wait which one of these 100>0's in an instant?
A point and click stun is very different from a point and click kill. Only one of them sends you back to a fountain with no follow-up.
Also LOL at Vlad removing an entire team from the game. Great rhetoric.
Automated Riven2 votesBetter go from when the leap started. Because that's when counter play starts.
Echostormxx2 votesMost of the supports in the game wouldn't have saved that. He literally died in like 0.5 seconds to point-click abilities.
Like forget even that this was an ADC. Anything would have died to that short of someone prioritizing tank items. That's literally a 0.5s 100>0 point-click combo. I mean it's Rengar, who snowballs and does that crap better than almost anyone, but it's one of those binary situations where he stat-checks with Duskblade and can then point-click delete his enemies, isolated or not.
I agree with this. I think the time that the player had hardly any time to react, maybe >0.5 seconds. The issue here isn't that there was a ton of burst damage, but that there was no real counterplay.
Naon5 votesNo matter what, Morgana would not have been able to stop that 100-0 fast enough. He literally popped the MF in a second. What would morg do in that scenario? By the time the Ren landed and popped him with an auto after, she could have started her ult up, but that isn't going to stop the ren from still running out laughing.
It would have taken Garen being there if anything to counter with a silence on the Ren.
Even if MF had boots, it wouldn't have stopped the DMG enough to save him. The issue is league buffed assassins a ton and are still working on buffing them more with changes to the runes again. The power creeping in this season is absurd.
Risen293 votesYou're a lone ADC with no mobility or CC. Assassins are suppose to kill you in that situation. The counterplay is called teamwork.
Karunamon3 votesThey're under tower. Making a dive like that ought to be risky. Currently, it's zero risk.
ali afri1 voteshe is 10/2 , if he cant dive u under tower how he can win the game, kda should be removed so and gold difference dont matters in game, all start with 100k gold level 18 then go in game !
Risen292 votesThey're under tower. Making a dive like that ought to be risky. Currently, it's zero risk.
He's fed out of his mind and laning phase is long since over at 20 minutes.
You're an ADC that is suppose to die to assassins.
On top of that you're the most vulnerable kind of ADC with no CC, mobility, or defense.
Under all these conditions you're suppose to die.
Towers would have to make you invulnerable and insta-kill the enemy to prevent you from dying in such a disadvantaged circumstance.
Karunamon1 votesDoes reaching a certain level or being massively fed mean you should be functionally immune to towers?
At this point I'm thinking you could literally run it up mid and not die until you hit the fountain laser.
Risen292 votesDoes reaching a certain level or being massively fed mean you should be functionally immune to towers?
Absolutely. What game have you been playing? That's how it's always been.
The reverse is far worse: To be functionally immune to the enemy's assaults just because you're under a tower. The game would never end.
Now, granted, I think towers are too weak in general, especially early, but that doesn't make your original argument true. You didn't deserve to be immune to getting dived in that situation for all the reasons I already outlined. And somewhat stronger towers wouldn't have saved you either, for those same reasons I outlined.
Karunamon1 votesThe reverse is far worse: To be functionally immune to the enemy's assaults just because you're under a tower.
Which I didn't ask for. In OP's clip, the attacker took one single tower shot on thier way out, and it's one that probably didn't take more than 10% off their HP, if that.
Towers ought to be bastions of safety that it takes effort to take down, not something you can just mindlessly traipse behind, kill someone, and then get out only taking a single shot.
Risen292 votesWhich I didn't ask for. In OP's clip, the attacker took one single tower shot on thier way out, and it's one that probably didn't take more than 10% off their HP, if that.
You're wrong, because logically it's what you would have to be asking for if you wanted that MF to survive that rengar dive.
Taking 30% of his HP would have changed nothing. Even taking 50% off, Rengar still would have made the dive and been happy to do it. Hell, if he knows no one else is there and he knows his damage levels well, he will make the dive even if it takes off 90% of his HP in one shot because he knows his numbers well enough to know what he can get away with.
The only way this calculus changes is if MF isn't alone, or is on a champion that can CC/evade.
The fact is you shouldn't be alone as an ADC at 20 minutes when you have no mobility or CC and their is a fed assassin on the enemy team. That's your fault, not the game's fault.
Karunamon1 votesThe fact is you shouldn't be alone as an ADC at 20 minutes when you have no mobility or CC and their is a fed assassin on the enemy team. That's your fault, not the game's fault.
So there is no safe place on the map.
That's _shit _ design, yo. I remember when "play passive and farm under tower" was a legitimate strategy to playing from behind. Now there's nothing? You fall behind and you're doomed because assassins are so bursty and MS heavy they can just blithely ignore everything other than a CC tank?
Risen292 votesSo there is no safe place on the map.
There never has been an absolutely safe space on the map, aside from the fountain. You're living in a fantasy world of shit design if you think an isolated immobile cc-less ADC should have survived getting ganked by a wildly fed rengar during the mid game just because she was under a tower.
Add922 votesJust kill him 4Head
