What does a Lux do to fight back against a Fizz?

darkdill·Mar 2, 2018·1 votes·691 views

Wait for him to use his E before shooting your Q? He's probably already killed you. Build MR? As Lux, you can't do that before he gets enough AP to make any MR meaningless. Stay far away? Then he can bully you off CS and starve you due to Lux's lackluster waveclear. Call for ganks? Your jungler won't help you because he's too busy arguing with teammates or too busy dying to the enemy jungler. Harass him early? That doesn't work as well as it should because he doesn't need a lot of items to 100-0 you early on. Use Zhonya's? That only works once before he wises up and baits it. I could go on, but you get where this is all going.

And "don't pick Lux" is an illegal answer in this topic.

9 Comments

The WhamboozlerMar 2, 20181 votes

Not much, he's a brutal hard counter. You just hug tower and try to deny him kills. If you're ballsy you can try to poke him outta lane with your E, but that gives him openings to come at you. It's more about denying him kills and pinging like MAD if he roams. Not every champ is supposed to be able to 1v1 outplay every other one. Sometimes you get counterpicked and you gotta make due. If he doesn't snowball he's not so great compared to you... so you're "beating" fizz by keeping your CS up and not dying to him. And try like hell to keep your team from dying to him as well. Lux doesn't roam well, and a savvy Fizz will pretend to roam and then jump you in river if you follow him... but do your best.

So yeah, you beat Fizz as Lux by not thinking like someone that feels kills are the only thing that matters and the only way to win the game. If he roams bot three times and gets next to nothing out of it and you get a 30 CS lead and first tower... CONGRATS. You beat fizz. If he stays in lane trying to kill you for 12 minutes and fails to... CONGRATS. You beat fizz.

You see my point.

darkdillMar 2, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Whamboozler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O3%%%9pt,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-02T06:26:56.711+0000)

Not every champ is supposed to be able to 1v1 outplay every other one. Sometimes you get counterpicked and you gotta make due.

I thought Riot absolutely HATED that mentality.

The WhamboozlerMar 2, 20181 votes

Are you specifically asking RIOT what you're supposed to do? Because you didn't say that.

If so, don't. That idea is dumb and it's half the reason the game is kinda scuzzy. Just to prove this... sit down right now and pick say... 20 champions from the league roster that you feel do not "unfairly" counter. Where each of the 20 all have fair and acceptable counterplay to each other champion you picked.

Assuming you did that instead of just ignoring the request, you'd probably have picked a lot of champs with skillshots and dashes. Shit that is easy to see as "having counterplay."

Now imagine how boring the game will be when EVERY single champ is basically Ahri and every single ability is a dash or a skillshot. There are 150 freakin champs in this game man... some of them are gonna just invalidate others. It's unavoidable.

The solution to this isn't to make every single champ able to korean-outplay each other by slapping buttons to wave-dash-flash-jumping-Q over their skillshots while landing your own by your sheer mechanical skill. I mean... I guess we could do that but A: those champs are gonna feel REALLY samey, and B: some of us prefer playing less mechanically intense champs. Not to mention C: the learning curve of all these high mechanics champs would be utterly STUPID, most players would kinda suck with them and most new players would take one look at them and say "fuck this game". Not a good idea from a "keep people playing" perspective.

But the perks of this being a team game include that you can win a match despite not beating an opponent down 1v1. In fact... some people like playing that way. Strategic play over twitchy mechanical play is a perfectly valid preference. So they add in all kinds of factors. Lux can't 1v1 Fizz unless Fizz is huffing paint, but she can beat him overall by playing the game smart and beating his TEAM. Maybe that means roaming to get fed off his top lane when he leaves to gank bot. Maybe that means baiting him to jump her so her jungler can countergank and rip his face off. Maybe it just means playing passive, trying to scale as best she can and protecting herself and her carry from him using her long range. Maybe it's just having better waveclear to stall his team from winning early so her TEAMMATES can outscale him.

Or maybe... none of it will work. Nothing is for certain, after all. You have a chance to beat him but there's no way to set it up so you always will. If you can't outplay, out-think or out-scale the guy... why do you feel you deserve to win? If you think that's dumb, Riot has made plenty of champs that have high "outplay potential" that you can pick who can try to LCSBIGPLAYS the shit out of the enemy with sheer mechanical skill. Play one of them. But don't insist that the chill, immobile, long-range poke mage is a bad idea because it can't outplay assassins with ease. Pick something that CAN. Although spoilers... it'll probably be a low-"counterplay" champ like Malzahar or Ryze. And then it'll be their turn to flame that YOU have no counterplay... when there is fuck-all stopping them from leaving you in lane to farm and getting fat off your bot lane or invading your jungler.

And thus will the great circle of complaints and bitching continue... as it always has. Because popping on the forums to whine is easier than figuring out how to improve and doing it.

ZerefMar 2, 20181 votes

Before I start, I want to say that as a Lux main, Fizz is my ban 99.9% of the time. I only went against a fizz OTP once last year before I learned my lesson lol

Not saying there's nothing you can do, but a good fizz will completely obliterate you. You can try to harass him as much as possible pre-6 without pushing the lane but a good player will start with corrupting pot and stay back. After 6, you need to stay back and farm and ask for ganks. You're better off losing CS than losing CS and dying. There's not much for you to do because a good fizz will just control the lane. You can try save your snare for when after he uses his E and DON'T miss. Watch out for a surprise ult when he uses Q on your minions and ult you from max range. Building Zhonya is far more effective than banshee/mr because you can use it to negate his ult at will.

Fizz is the bane of my existence though. I can go even against Zed/Yasuo/Ahri/etc with way less effort =/

Edit: Offtopic but I would also build Archangel's on Lux over Luden's. You need the extra sustain and the shield on top of barrier. It costs 100g cheaper, gives the same flat AP and you should finish stacking by 25 mins in the game at most. Start with lost chapter (not tear) because it's the most gold efficient mana item.

Don't get spellbinder, it takes way too long to stack. You can rush Oblivion orb or Deathcap after AAS.

darkdillMar 2, 20181 votes

Unfortunately I have to reserve my ban for Evelynn due to how much she warps the game. And while I agree on Zhonya, it's too easily caught off cooldown or traps you in an unwinnable situation.

That's also another thing I hate right now is that Spellbinder is Lux's ONLY means of getting bonus MS outside of boots. But since it's ineffective on her, she lacks the ability to get good movement speed anymore.

KhristophorosMar 2, 20181 votes

don't pick Lux

Nanuk PihoqahiakMar 2, 20181 votes

Archangel's is basically one of the new mana items to go for now. The shield is great at mitigating burst, even at the cost of some mana. This also pairs up great with Barrier. Perhaps also look into Banshee's Veil to buffer you with the shield so he can't long-range engage, and so you get more CDR for faster shields and E slows.

I'd assume Zhonya's will eventually find its way into your build path, at which point he likely won't be able to kill you without a lot of effort.

For laning, I'd aim to get Stopwatch through talents, and use Barrier to protect yourself until you can retaliate with more items during teamfights.

darkdillMar 4, 20181 votes

Banshee's Veil is okay, but can get knocked out fairly easily. I'd rush Zhonya first, and I'm not sure if I'd get both items because of CDR overload.

As for Stopwatch through runes, can't do that. Need Minion Dematerializer as Lux due to her lackluster waveclear, and I prefer having Cosmic Insight for extra CDR.

nm1010Mar 4, 20181 votes

Minion dematerializer to one shot caster minions, take barrier, take ultimate hat + 45% cdr, rush archangel's/ludens if you are confident, buy control wards so he doesn't roam. Post 6 you basically just ult every cannon wave and spam e to shove on other waves. Fizz can't fight you and clear fast enough to be effective, unless you get camped (which you can't do much about).

Oh and after mana item go for zhonya's, left that part out (sorry).