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Karma Mains, Hold Them Accountable.

Winterkill··10 votes·2,678 views

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/TkiBEVYV-karma-gameplay-change-preview

It was stated that this rework was aimed at Karma support players. It was stated that the reason why she doesn't have Shield Bomb back is because of new players and how they like a Mass AoE shield. It was stated that all of these changes would make Karma mid and mage a better option. I argue that all of those comments are completely invalid if not a single Developer can be bothered to give this champion a gameplay identity to begin with. Every single ability and Mantra ability fits a different playstyle and gameplay identity.

We waited 5 long years for actual work to be done, to get more excuses and reasons as to why nothing is actually getting done. We had the opportunity to actually communicate with a Developer this time about what we wanted done, unfortunately nothing we actually wanted done was implemented. She is still being catered around the Support role and the mage side of herself that is highly requested and was more successful for her before the relaunch, is consistently being ignored.

Problems:

  1. Passive promotes her to be more active with abilities, but she still only has no damage move and it is blocked by anything first hit. How can she have her Mantra up if she has no damage options and the only damage option is blocked by a fixed range and anything first hit?

  2. She still only has one damage move and the only damage move is blocked by minions. There were a ton of suggestions to make Mantra Q more interactive and unique, but what we received was a buff to the first hit and a completely useless explosion damage.

  3. Great, you gave us an interaction with allies on W and Mantra W. This is the only new and reworked thing you did on a champion that wanted so much more to be done on her. This is essentially catering to Support Karma and disregarding everything players want done for Mage Karma.

  4. Shield Bomb was not implemented back. It was removed 4 years ago with no explanation and reason why. The ability itself was put back on a new champion and Karma has a Mantra E that is an item active and Sivr ULT. Riot is afraid to do the right thing and bring back the most highly requested ability by Karma mains. This is all because they don't want to upset Ivern players and new Karma players.

======

The rework didn't do anything or change really anything about a kit that clearly hasn't been working the past 5 years. HOLD DEVELOPERS ACCOUNTABLE AND MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD. I know a lot of players are not happy with the Karma changes and they wanted more for her, but at this point it is proof that no matter how much time we wait and how much we say, this Development team will never do anything. We waited 5 years to get the Karma changes we have now and we all know she deserves more. We deserve more.

Go on Reddit and make your voice heard and hold them accountable. Go on YouTube and make your voice heard and hold Riot Game Developers accountable. Request in the game Developer threads with Meddler and hold him and the rest of them accountable. Your voice needs to be heard because these Developers no longer care. Trust me, I have been fighting for her since 2013 and nothing I have said and no patience I have given to them since then has worked. THEY DON'T CARE SO WE HAVE TO MAKE THEM CARE.

(Do not be like me and be abrasive. Do it in a way that they know you are upset and you want your feelings conveyed. No name calling, no insulting, and not belittling. That's my job and be a better Karma main than me.)

24 Comments

Frosted Tips5 votes

Everything about these changes have ruined what Karma is supposed to be. They wanted to bring the Old Karma players back with some nostalgic changes, but those changes are more for Old Soraka players. She will no longer be able to solo lane and she will only synergize well enough with about 1-4 champions. So in other words her play rate will drop to new lows.

Winterkill2 votes

{quoted}

Everything about these changes have ruined what Karma is supposed to be. They wanted to bring the Old Karma players back with some nostalgic changes, but those changes are more for Old Soraka players. She will no longer be able to solo lane and she will only synergize well enough with about 1-4 champions. So in other words her play rate will drop to new lows.

With a kit that has already not been working out for her. They need to know this and please let them know in a separate thread, comment on somewhere. If you are unhappy let them know.

Frosted Tips2 votes

Don't worry I have made two posts already and I have commented on the Dev post.

Winterkill2 votes

{quoted}

Don't worry I have made two posts already and I have commented on the Dev post.

Very good.

Common Satyr5 votes

Im a karma main, played 1st karma, played a shit ton of current karma. I think these changes look pretty good. Ill be happy.

PlebonicEbonic3 votes

i stopped playing karma when they made it impossible to take her top/mid.

Frosted Tips1 votes

You can play her mid. She was actually my pocket pick until they nerfed her shield along with the ones that actually deserved the shield nerfs, but then never got compensated for the nerfs.

Winterkill2 votes

Part of the problem is not enough players are communicating and holding them accountable. The changes are going through. If you like mage Karma let them know. We are apparently out numbered by new Karma players.

PlebonicEbonic6 votes

i'd prefer if they reverted karma back to when she was first released. that will never happen, and therefore i have no opinion on it

Winterkill2 votes

I agree but it won't happen. Even Riot NeuroCat said it, she is considered a support. This is because they waited too long to actually do any work on her and prioritized it on other champions. Be vocal and mature about your opinions and let them know. That is all we can do right now.

AhhShucks3 votes

We are outnumbered by new Karma players, because we all stopped playing Karma after she couldn't be a mage anymore. So we don't really count as Karma players

Winterkill1 votes

It's actually not our fault at all. It is entirely Riot Games fault. They waited 5 years to address her kit to only do what they have been doing since the relaunch, catering to the broken kit that bottlenecks her as a support. They are not interested in working on her if it doesn't benefit new players or the support role. Now is the time to make your voice heard and communicate about it. If you feel like you didn't do that enough before, please do it now. We cannot make change happen if we do not voice it and make them aware.

The changes are already going through and Riot NeuroCat and other Developers want us to, wait again and let time settle in, before we give an objective opinion. We can all clearly see they catered to support players and she still only has ONE damage move that is blocked by minions, and no gameplay identity.

AhhShucks1 votes

I wasn't implying that it's our fault. Just stating that we don't really count as Karma players anymore, because we don't like/play this abomination that Karma has become.

I've been rather vocal about wanting the original iteration of shield bomb back pretty much from the time they changed her kit the first go around to now.

IxtaliKing2 votes

We're not even outnumbered, the response to those changes has been mostly negative both here and on Reddit.

The problem is the issue is being framed as an "old" Karma vs "new" Karma player thing, and it isn't. A lot of new Karma players (myself included) dislike the new changes because it's entirely support focused.

IxtaliKing3 votes

You're absolutely right. I just don't understand why the rework has to be so polarizing. They deliberately set out to only serve the support role, whilst compensating solo lane with inflated numbers...

The fact that our concerns are being straight up dismissed with "let's see how it goes on PBE" is disturbing to me, because it means they're pushing through with the changes regardless. It's totally unfair.

Winterkill2 votes

I know bud. I know a lot of you were very optimistic about the changes, but you have to understand that no matter what you say or expect these Developers to do . . . . doesn't means they will do it. You have to remain impartial with them because these Developers will use any excuse or reason as to why something doesn't happen on one champion, but someone like Ryze or another one will get the work. They just don't care. All we can do is ban together and make our voices heard. Remain calm, cool, and collected. Explain your concerns and wants in a professional and mature manner.

chipndip12 votes

This is the issue when it comes to people wanting champs to work in a bajillion different ways. Karma's issue is that she needs a defined primary play style she can call her own. Now you guys are mad because that play style isn't "Mid lane carry".

Winterkill2 votes

Five years ago Karma received a relaunch that took away her fans, gameplay identity as a battlemage, clothesline mechanic on W and Mantra W, and a patches later shield bomb. Karma's past kit was overloaded with complicated mechanics that didn't really give her a solid gameplay identity but she was played, by the admission of many Game Developers at the time, more as a mage and in the toplane.

What Riot Game Developers have done for the past 5 years is blatantly balance and remove abilities from Karma to make her a support, but they are not even doing that right. All of her abilities and Mantra abilities are completely binary in choices and all give her a completely different gameplay identity. Before her relaunch she was a Battlemage with Mantra abilities that interacted with her and allies. All of her Mantra abilities interacted with allies but also benefited her. Mantra Q was a cone heal with damage that she could use to bait people into fights with her old passive with. Mantra E could be used defensively or offensively depending on the choice the Karma played made. See a common trend with Karma? She was a BATTLEMAGE WITH INTERACTIVE ABILITIES ON ALLIES.

What Karma's kit does now is Q/Mantra Q is for damage, W/Mantra W is for utility and CC, and E/Mantra E is defensive/support. On top of that all of the abilities and Mantra abilities fit different playstyles.

=========

Riot Games is at fault here. They waited too long to do anything and now the Karma mains are at such a divide, that we are arguing amongst each other about what is best for her. At the end of the day Riot Games Meddler and Riot Games Reav3s have had nothing but excuses for the past couple years as so why champions like Karma did not get work done. Now they are using an excuse that I actually said they were going to use 3 years ago, "Riot Games is going to use time as an excuse to do virtually nothing on this champion." Look it up because I said it and he used it.

These Developers are going to have to create an entirely new champion catering to old Karma mains with her old kit and themes . . . . or they are going to have to create an entirely new champion catering to new Karma mains that like her current kit and themes. Something has to get done because they are at fault.

zoliking2 votes

There are a shit ton of mages and only aroud 20 supports in the game. If they balanced Karma to be better at being a straight up mage she might stop being viable as a support at all. These changes are good, turning from a barely okay support to a great choice for one.

Frosted Tips2 votes

She would still be a support too. The rational Karma players want her to be played both support and Mid.

zoliking1 votes

{quoted}

She would still be a support too. The rational Karma players want her to be played both support and Mid.

Well, you said balancing her to be a mage would mean putting more damage on her abilities. But to do that they'd have to nerf her utility. Since she's barely decent as a support to begin with imho, this would put her out of viability for that role.

Frosted Tips1 votes

Where did I say add damage to her abilities?

zoliking1 votes

{quoted}

Where did I say add damage to her abilities?

Sorry, I mistook you for the op.

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