What if support would be more popular as roaming menace instead of the marksmen's bitch?

Irelia Bot··3 votes·636 views

The current state of playing support could honestly be described with one single word much of the time: degrading

Not in playing a position that is by all means required to make a team function but in that you are often left to try and focus assistance on one specific ally regardless of if they are good, bad, or chewing you out for not warding the right place at the right time. You are expected to stick with them.

What if supports were not only able to help mid or top fairly often but were expected too? What if the the baby sitting the marksmen mentality of the game is keeping this position form being more enjoyable?

Yes I bring this up somewhat as a response to the support singed situation. Support should be about getting advantages for the TEAM not about protecting a risky investment. And yes Marksmen are a risky investment.

Why does the marksmen's bitch station exist? This is largely tied to 2 things: exp is boosted when shared and which classes tend to scale best with gold vs Levels.

You guessed it. Marksmen are often considered to scale better with gold for items then levels when compared to assassins, fighters, mages or tanks. Since marksmen are often seen as the class least dependent on levels and most easily able to scale with items having them split exp with supports is a huge part of why it came be the meta it is today.

What could be done about this? Removed the Exp boost when exp is being shared. This will not force supports to have to leave the side of the marksmen but it would make them best off not sticking around one single ally all the time. Many other MOBA do not have EXP boosted when shared.

Then make a system where all allies who are higher a higher level will passively grant 1 exp a second for the number of levels nearby allies have over you. Not an over the top boost early to mid game but it will add up especially later.

Example of how this would work is: Level 9 support is near a level 12 mid and level 13 top will result in the support getting 7 exp a second.

Just my thoughts on the situation and part of the reason why not much of the player base likes to play support. Being dictated in what you are expected to be doing even when you could easily be so much more of a game changer if you were not expected to baby sit one player would make the position more enjoyable.

28 Comments

JackMcSnipeyz4 votes

Support isnt a marksman's bitch, thats just the mentality people like you are giving to the role. Roaming has a time and place for every good support, no one said supports are glued to botlane.

On the other hand, leaving ever other minute leaving your lane is 1v2 just to roam in a bad time isn't good either.

That's what seperates good supports from bad supports, not much of mechanical skill, but map awarness and planning

azrolator3 votes

And what would be the role of the new sup? Go top lane and buff the tank while immobile marksmen on bot get jumped non stop by jg, adc and enemy sup? Wander around the jg taking all the jungler's camps? I think there is a reason why top/mid/adc/sup/jg became the meta. It will require more than just a rework of the sup role if solo adc bot were to become the new meta.

Sona Ping2 votes

No one is going to be a roaming menace underleveled with no items.

CrimsonCobra31 votes

That's not true at all. CC is king.

Sona Ping1 votes

Not at all.

Yes, CC is very good. CC is also worthless if you lack the adequate tools, damage, etc. to do anything to the target while they are CC'ed.

CC frequently gets better with more levels. Champions can also get more CC with more levels. Gold and items improve a champion's ability to be able to CC and make their fighting while CCing better. Meanwhile, an underleveled, behind in items champion ganking can just make for a double kill.

All of this means that levels and items with CC is better than CC alone. They aren't going to be a menace by roaming.

CrimsonCobra31 votes

Are you assuming the support is an idiot that can't choose when to engage, or whether or not their ally can follow up properly? Everything you said is true, but easily mitigated with the use of a cool head, some common sense, and some experience. And a decent ally.

Sona Ping1 votes

{quoted}

Are you assuming the support is an idiot that can't choose when to engage, or whether or not their ally can follow up properly? Everything you said is true, but easily mitigated with the use of a cool head, some common sense, and some experience. And a decent ally.

No, and that was not implied. I am only saying that a level one Leona is inferior to a level three Leona. A level three Leona is inferior to a level six Leona because she has more of the king CC. Similarly a level six Leona is inferior to a level nine Leona who is tougher and has more items.

Even if it was mitigated, mitigate is to lessen; it does not negate nor remove the disadvantage. And statistics cannot be negated. More armor will always reduce more damage. More movement speed always make a champion move faster. A Leona with "a cool head, some common sense, and some experience." will always perform better with more items and more in-game experience from staying than without.

There's a reason when watching high level or pro player commentary when jungling they say things like "I can't gank that lane; I'll just die" or "It will just give him a double kill". They say that because they are that behind the enemy in gold and levels and that is what happens when you are behind in gold and level.

That's as a jungler, we are talking about supports; supports who are the position furthest behind in gold and levels in most games. And a reason supports are frequently many levels behind, behind even the ADC... is because they roam.

CrimsonCobra31 votes

Again, that's true, but you say it as if it's a formula. The call has to be made on each occasion. And knowing when to roam can have a huge impact. If you think I'm in favor of constant roaming, you have me wrong, but I think a support's ability to impact the entire team is crucial, and roaming is certainly an option. Your original statement was that roaming was not a good strategy. I disagree, I think it's a conditionally great strategy. I agree with all the conditions you've given, but you still act as if it can never be a good option.

PS. One minor issue: I never gank a level X Leona as a level Y Leona. Ganks are never that linear; I'm either ganking a mid Ahri (probably a bad option) or maybe a mid Ryze (could work). The point is, when you're planning a 2v1 fight, you have far more criterion to analyze than just 'what level are they' and 'what items do they have'.

Sona Ping1 votes

I never said no one should ever roam nor did I imply that. My post is in response to the OP, setting aside that in his constant railing and contempt for ranged champions, he gives a suggestion that would buff marksmen. His post according to himself is in response to Singed Support (a player who was actually just jungling but whatever). He says that the position of roaming champion should be made instead of the "marksmen's bitch station". I brought up the fact that this disadvantages champions in terms levels and items. You said "That's not true at all." That is the context in which you have been arguing and what I have spent my time explaining to you. There is a formula. There are multiple formulas for armor, attack damage, magic resistances and so forth that demonstrate that a champion with more levels and items is unambiguously better; that Leona is better at Level Y than Level X. That is the point of that example. So the game is not as linear as "CC is king." If it were, then the King of Kings Nautilus would be the ruler of the jungle and would not be outpicked many times over by the likes of Lee-Sin, Kha-Zix, and the rest.

CrimsonCobra31 votes

Hm. I was simply arguing against what I saw as an extreme argument. When you said "No one is going to be a roaming menace underleveled with no items." I had to disagree, since, for instance, every time I jungle, I'm lower level than 66% of the laners I gank. But I still win because of the circumstances. The same goes for support. So When I read that, and your postceding arguments, I saw an argument for no impact, and therefore no purpose in roaming. I personally disagree with the OP (I think I made a comment...) but I also disagreed with that linear view of the game that I thought you presented. I'm glad we're at least on the same page now.

Edit: I did comment. PS. I'm also a literalist. Knowing that may have helped this discussion. (Sorry.)

BzRazor2 votes

Bad supports stay glued to bot lane.

Good supports roam and know when to roam.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

nope cuz according to riot if u don't stay bot lane you are hurting your team by not baby sitting the adc for the 1st 20 mins of the game.

Irelia Bot2 votes

And they wonder why so many people want makrsmen nerfed.

khorney1 votes

there is nothing stating that you can not roam. supp is boring and has no real impact, more of your the blame for the loss no matter what happens in the game.

Fairyfleur1 votes

Supports have a huge impact on the game.

khorney1 votes

they dont but okay. countless times ive fed my mid and adc liek 8 kills each in lane alnoe and i lost .... so what impact did i have again ohh wait none....and if this were truly the case people would want to supp more

CrimsonCobra31 votes

No, you had great impact, your allies just didn't use it properly. That happens sometimes.

khorney1 votes

A. this happens all the time for me and again i had no imapct becuase no matter what i did i cant out damage out cc when im playiong as janna or leo or naut... so once again i had no impact

CrimsonCobra31 votes

I don't understand.

SoundChaosDebug1 votes

Support is never marksman bitch, we just favor them for the path of least resistance.

If you are moving around the map helping other lanes and the marksman is not capable of pulling up their own underwear than that is not your fault.

People have expectations on how things should work but it's the type of thing where you cannot please every one.

18 NAKED COWB0YS1 votes

Brand Zyra Karma

what do they all share in common (aha xd)

ap champs rock!!!

Tactical Poro1 votes

As a Brand main, ADC's support me.

Neko Caitlyn1 votes

Good idea. Lets buff ADCs up so they can survive without support assistance.

CrimsonCobra31 votes

Personally, as a frequent support player, when I am treated as 'the marksman's bitch' I just stay silent, do my best, and watch them self destruct. 90% of the time, they're flaming because they're terrible and proceed to feed. When this happens, I put myself where the action is, such as mid lane, dragon, etc., and help any competent teammates I have make plays. We then leave ADC to farm, and win the game without him. It often works at my elo. (Bronze unfortunately.) I have no idea how it plays out in higher elos though. (You'd think people would learn how important respect is, but I've been told that's just not the case.)

In either case, I usually don't worry about it. It can be annoying, and tilting, but I play this game for fun, so if it's really bad, I just mute them. In terms of playstyle, I personally love the impact supports have on the game, and I don't think there's necessarily a need to change that.

Dasdi961 votes

The thing is we solo laners are used to winning lane without much assistance and would prefer to get solo exp because it is the best form of scaling for us.

SwordOfWar1 votes

I don't see how spending 70% of the match running around the map could be more fun than 15 minutes of 2v2 fighting.

CrimsonCobra31 votes

It's just as fun. (I play jungle and support most often. Jungle just feels like a more murderous version of support to me.)

Oglaf1 votes

A good Support can be both.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

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