Because this game only has 19 ADC, and three of them are not even a ADC and thats Urgot, Teemo, and Kog'Maw,
Most played ADC are Ashe, Kalista, Sivir, Trist, Corki, Vayne, Lucian, Ezreal, Jinx and Graves,
Nobody plays Twitch, Varus, Quinn, Draven, Miss Fortune.
So I think it's time for a new one.
Or Buff the ones that nobody plays.
jDVL20eCYs1 votesi agree. want kalista V 2.0
FyshinaTux1 votes[{quoted}](name=Kip Killagin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NiRlW6WM,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-07-11T09:45:08.927+0000)
Because this game only has 19 Marksman, and three of them are not even a Marksman and thats Urgot, Teemo, and Kog'Maw,
Most played Marksman are Ashe, Kalista, Sivir, Trist, Corki, Vayne, Lucian, Ezreal, Jinx and Graves,
Nobody plays Twitch, Varus, Quinn, Draven, Miss Fortune.
So I think it's time for a new one.
ftfy <3
Besides all that... Support only has "12" listed champions in the client, and Assassin only has 15.
Of those 12 for Support, Lulu and Nunu aren't even played as support, and nobody plays Tahm Kench (yet), Braum (RARELY), or Nami. Which leaves 7 Supports.
Why not get another Support?
Of the 15 Assassins listed in the client, Akali sees 0 play, Eve is played as some fighter/bruiser/tank/something, Katarina hasn't seen play in a long time, Kha'Zix isn't played, Master Yi doesn't see much play outside of Bronze/Silver, Shaco doesn't see hardly any play, and neither does Talon. Oh, and Fizz is more commonly played as a Cinderhulk Bruiser now...
So of the 15 Assassins, we're left with a sum-total of 7 Assassins.
Why not get another Assassin first?
SlytherMinn2 votesI main Braum. His high IP or RP cost deter a lot of people from buying him over others at that high level, but Braum is still the best Support in the game.
SlytherMinn1 votesI play Miss Fortune and see Varus all the time. Draven is also around enough to be noticed.
A better argument is the last ADC released was 
and every champ since has not been an ADC.
Edit: I don't count Kalista because she's a weird ADC/support hybrid, not a true ADC.
I PREACHER I2 votesI think you are forgetting 
and by I think I mean how the fuck could you have missed one of the most dominant Pro played ADC's? xD kalista the last adc, not jinx
Taredom1 votesI play Miss Fortune and see Varus all the time. Draven is also around enough to be noticed.
A better argument is the last ADC released was
Edit: I don't count Kalista because she's a weird ADC/support hybrid, not a true ADC.
When has Kal ever been played support? (Not counting the people that have played her once and didnt understand her kit.)
Before you say the damage on her w with the adc is great, consider that if you bond the adc, that removes the knockup because that would mean launching the adc, I suppose you could save the adc but tahm does that on a much lower cd. I suppose rend has a slow and she can have sentinels? I dunno, it sounds about as bad as Ashe support. Also Kalista (At least pre 5.13) is pick or ban in professional play as an adc.
Edit: Before you get too defensive (it's honestly a moot point to argue that she could ever be an effective adc) I upvoted your Braum comment because no one is as manly as him.
Baby Ghoul1 votesKog'maw is actually a great ADC. It's Quinn who is not. Switch those two.
Quinn is better in top lane because she can be so difficult to deal with if you're a melee champion.
pripustas1 votesYou say ADC, and then you forget to mention Yi, Tryndamere, Fiora, Yasuo, oh wait, there's only 4? We want more melee carries! Not marksmen, we have plenty of those.
Baby Ghoul1 votesYou say ADC, and then you forget to mention Yi, Tryndamere, Fiora, Yasuo, oh wait, there's only 4? We want more melee carries! Not marksmen, we have plenty of those.
Those are melee ADC, and are not played in bot lane.
They're also a little broken by design. Melee ADCs do not have range, so they rely heavily on high damage. This makes them a bit flat gameplay wise because their kits require them getting their damage items before anyone else to overwhelm players. The skill is in getting to that sweet spot, and sometimes it's very difficult. However once you get your core items before anyone else, it's EZ street. When you're up against a counter, or any situation that puts you at a disadvantage, then that's where the skill comes into play. Another part to playing these feast or famine champs is knowing when to stop feasting, and when to group. So many hyper carries get way too blood thirsty, but especially those 4.
The biggest con to playing these champions is that if you fall behind, then you're not going to catch back up and you force your teammates to carry you until maybe you make it to late game. It's not really healthy, and I see why they get a lot of hate.
I say all this as I play one of them, Fiora, and she's my favorite champion. Many people underestimate her, confuse her counters, and think R is always the best option, so I've been having a good time playing as her and against her. I'm looking forward to her rework soon though, and hope they make her a bit more complex so I can play her in more ways than one. Fiora is a little more unique in that you can be more reliable if you build like a bruiser, but you sacrifice so much oppressive power, and there are better dueling bruisers out there currently, so I only do that if the team is very tanky.
I would say out of all of them Tryndamere needs the rework the most since he's very dependent on you being shocked by his abilities and passive to get ahead of you. However he's also the easiest to out play and build for. I believe he's the hardest to shut down when he gets his snowball rolling though. Yasuo has the most diverse kit out of all of them, but he's still forced to build damage to be effective, and this holds him back since his early game from level 3 to shiv is pretty underwhelming compared to the rest.
Yi is kind of a mess right now since Sated Dehvourer came out, and if I do draft or ranked, he's getting banned. I'm just saying, until they fix this flaw with melee ADCs, they should not make new ones. I'd like reworks for all of them actually, but currently just Fiora is next.
We'll see how they do.
SEKAI1 votesThey are not played in bot lane not because for some godly unknown reason ranged adcs are just the best at bot, no, it was because the bot lane was specifically balanced to have nothing viable besides the ranged adc + support duo, and it's by far the most broken lane of all league.
It's not like Riot believes in the idea that a ranged carry should be a choice as opposed to being a must.
There is no dispute that this game needs more melee carries, there are only 4 of them atm, if we also count Yasuo who is actually more of an assassin/fighter hybrid that has an OP scaling rather than being a melee carry but whatever.
Baby Ghoul1 votesThey are not played in bot lane not because for some godly unknown reason ranged adcs are just the best at bot, no, it was because the bot lane was specifically balanced to have nothing viable besides the ranged adc + support duo, and it's by far the most broken lane of all league.
It's not like Riot believes in the idea that a ranged carry should be a choice as opposed to being a must.
There is no dispute that this game needs more melee carries, there are only 4 of them atm, if we also count Yasuo who is actually more of an assassin/fighter hybrid that has an OP scaling rather than being a melee carry but whatever.
There's a huge dispute that this game needs more melee ADCs for many of the reasons I just listed, especially around here. They are feast or famine, and that's not healthy game play. Riot needs to fix the melee ADCs they already have before they make more.
Yasuo is absolutely a melee carry. He deals more damage through autos and has mediocre sustain early. He can appear more like an AD caster with his skill shot Q. Wind Wall and Steel Tempest are not that hard to work around, and what you really need to be concerned with is the damage from his autos. Many people make the mistake of getting overwhelmed by those two things instead.
Fiora, Master Yi, and Tryndamere are also fighter/assassins, so I don't know what else to tell you.
SEKAI1 votesFiora, Master Yi, and Tryndamere are also fighter/assassins, so I don't know what else to tell you.
Being 1 shot by a fed carry doesn't mean the said carry can also be considered an assassin, if so anyone in this game who scales can also be considered an assassin 1 way or another which is definitely false.
Fiora, Yi, Trynd and Yasuo alike are now considered and labeled assassins because Riot wants to revamp (which they have done twice already, each worse than the last) the class system in such a way that carries have to be ranged, even though clearly 3 out of those 4 never really play like assassins as they suck as all hell in supposedly the strongest phase for them assassins, which is the early game.
At least Yasuo is somewhat competent in early game, which is why I don't believe him to be an actual melee carry but I ain't gonna harp on that.
Melee carries used to be an actual class, but Riot doesn't like it, and they don't plan to give the game all that many melee carries, and they have to be hybrid in 1 way or another as currently stand for whatever reason.
Fighter is actually a term used to refer to the likes of say Riven or Shyv etc, who are melee, offense oriented but doesn't have that strong of a late game potential.
Nowadays to Riot melee champs for the most part seem to only have 2 categories, tanks and assassins, which is just dumb to say the least.
I for one, would say that having a few more actual melee carries would definitely be nice.
Baby Ghoul1 votesBeing 1 shot by a fed carry doesn't mean the said carry can also be considered an assassin, if so anyone in this game who scales can also be considered an assassin 1 way or another which is definitely false.
Fiora, Yi, Trynd and Yasuo alike are now considered and labeled assassins because Riot wants to revamp (which they have done twice already, each worse than the last) the class system in such a way that carries have to be ranged, even though clearly 3 out of those 4 never really play like assassins as they suck as all hell in supposedly the strongest phase for them assassins, which is the early game.
At least Yasuo is somewhat competent in early game, which is why I don't believe him to be an actual melee carry but I ain't gonna harp on that.
Melee carries used to be an actual class, but Riot doesn't like it, and they don't plan to give the game all that many melee carries, and they have to be hybrid in 1 way or another as currently stand for whatever reason.
Fighter is actually a term used to refer to the likes of say Riven or Shyv etc, who are melee, offense oriented but doesn't have that strong of a late game potential.
Nowadays to Riot melee champs for the most part seem to only have 2 categories, tanks and assassins, which is just dumb to say the least.
I for one, would say that having a few more actual melee carries would definitely be nice.
They're literally labeled assassins for a reason. They're generally high mobility, weak utility, mediocre sustain, and they deal a ton of damage and build on that. A few of them have things like high mobility over sustain, or sustain over mobility, but it's mostly the same. They're assassins that are just beefy enough because they deal most of their damage through their autos. That's where they get their fighter title from.
Yasuo has the weakest early game out of all of them IMO, but everyone agrees it's definitely not the best out of all of them. The whole point of playing a melee ADC is to get ahead of everyone else so you can absolutely crush them before they get to late game. That's when everyone is gonna have their builds, and they're likely going to be in big groups where assassins do not flourish. The ones that truly flourish late game are the true bruisers like Riven, Shyvana, and Irelia.
SEKAI1 votesThey're literally labeled assassins for a reason. They're generally high mobility, weak utility, mediocre sustain, and they deal a ton of damage and build on that.
That's not what assassins are, they are supposed to have high innate damage early that doesn't scale all that well, weak sustain and that's it, the end.
Assassins are used in team comp solely to try snowball the advantage in a team's favour when the game just started and not much else, everything about mobility and utility comes from some individual champ's unique traits like say Kat having a blink used to be her thing or how Eve can go perma stealth, well that's what it was like until Riot started releasing champs who have everything. Which is wrong.
Melee carries are not assassins because their early isn't their strong point, and they scale heavily which is something assassins don't have, the only thing they share is the reliable sustainability and that's it. Forcibly linking the 2 almost unrelated classes into 1 is like saying mage supports are assassins as they are both squishy or saying mages are the same as adcs as they both deal damage and are ranged.
To be considered a fighter you need to at least have either a few soft CCs or at the very least, 1 hard CC, which outside of Yasuo's unreliable CC chain, the other 3 don't share their similarity with fighters 1 bit outside of the fact they're all melee.
There are other melee hypercarries that can also be sustainable, such as Nasus, Jax and Irelia, but as far as categorisation is concerned, yes they scale well but they are not really the "MADC" we're really talking about. As after all, MADC is just ADCs who happen to function in melee range, with little things here and there to compensate their huge compromise of range.
Melee adc is a class, and imo should remain as such, and not to be confused or merged into assassins.
Baby Ghoul1 votesThat's not what assassins are, they are supposed to have high innate damage early that doesn't scale all that well, weak sustain and that's it, the end.
Assassins are used in team comp solely to try snowball the advantage in a team's favour when the game just started and not much else, everything about mobility and utility comes from some individual champ's unique traits like say Kat having a blink used to be her thing or how Eve can go perma stealth, well that's what it was like until Riot started releasing champs who have everything. Which is wrong.
Melee carries are not assassins because their early isn't their strong point, and they scale heavily which is something assassins don't have, the only thing they share is the reliable sustainability and that's it. Forcibly linking the 2 almost unrelated classes into 1 is like saying mage supports are assassins as they are both squishy or saying mages are the same as adcs as they both deal damage and are ranged.
To be considered a fighter you need to at least have either a few soft CCs or at the very least, 1 hard CC, which outside of Yasuo's unreliable CC chain, the other 3 don't share their similarity with fighters 1 bit outside of the fact they're all melee.
There are other melee hypercarries that can also be sustainable, such as Nasus, Jax and Irelia, but as far as categorisation is concerned, yes they scale well but they are not really the "MADC" we're really talking about. As after all, MADC is just ADCs who happen to function in melee range, with little things here and there to compensate their huge compromise of range.
Melee adc is a class, and imo should remain as such, and not to be confused or merged into assassins.
We agree on one thing. Assassins are used in a team comp to try to snowball the advantage in a team's favor when the game is starting out. They also have few escapes. That's exactly what the melee ADCs do currently like it or not. I do not like it, but they are feast or famine. Most of them do a lot of damage early on. If they get a little fed they win their lane, then roam to other lanes and take out enemy champions. It takes the team to shut them down. This is what I mean by they need a rework, and one of them is getting just that soon enough.
A fighter is not as narrowly defined as you would like it to be. They have a blend of damage, mobility, and sustain and emphasize extended dueling. It is not a requirement that they have CC. Fiora, Yasuo, Master Yi, and Tryndamere all do a ton of damage in a short amount of time, but they're required to be close to you to do that damage. They are a blend of both assassins and fighter, with a bit more of an assassin quality than most like to admit. The root of the problem though is actually assassins themselves in this game, but that's another matter entirely.
We need to separate these titles when we talk about melee carries, because that encompasses more than just the melee ADCs.
SEKAI1 votesI rest my case.
I don't necessarily agree with your every point but I definitely see where you're coming from.
Baby Ghoul1 votesI rest my case.
I don't necessarily agree with your every point but I definitely see where you're coming from.
I see where you're coming from too, and I agree with more of your points than I thought I did originally as well.
pripustas1 votesAll that you've said is true, except for I didn't play Fiora, as I didn't like her kit, but Tryndamere and Yi (esp. Trynd) are 10 times harder to play. But they're so simple! Right? Let's see: They need to build full DPS, just like marksmen. They have melee range. They don't have cc. What happens when you fight them 1x1: They wreck your face in, and run away laughing. What happens when you fight 5x5 with an opposing team having them: They are hardly relevant. They need really good planning and execution to be even slightest bit relevant. Why? Because they get cc'd the moment they go into a teamfight, and they don't have supports and tanks who protect them. Everyone is "hurr durr Trynda's ulti is op"! It's not. You have to activate it almost right away, and then you being cc'd and kited nonstop. So you just pretty much die, and sometimes take an enemy carry with you. What they're left with? Killing enemy front line, just like marksmen do, except marksmen still have range, so they're in not nearly as much danger.
Conclusion? Melee ADC's are way harder to play than Ranged ones, we need more of MADC, and Riot should nerf RADC/bring back assassins, as they are way out of control.
Baby Ghoul1 votesAll that you've said is true, except for I didn't play Fiora, as I didn't like her kit, but Tryndamere and Yi (esp. Trynd) are 10 times harder to play. But they're so simple! Right? Let's see: They need to build full DPS, just like marksmen. They have melee range. They don't have cc. What happens when you fight them 1x1: They wreck your face in, and run away laughing. What happens when you fight 5x5 with an opposing team having them: They are hardly relevant. They need really good planning and execution to be even slightest bit relevant. Why? Because they get cc'd the moment they go into a teamfight, and they don't have supports and tanks who protect them. Everyone is "hurr durr Trynda's ulti is op"! It's not. You have to activate it almost right away, and then you being cc'd and kited nonstop. So you just pretty much die, and sometimes take an enemy carry with you. What they're left with? Killing enemy front line, just like marksmen do, except marksmen still have range, so they're in not nearly as much danger.
Conclusion? Melee ADC's are way harder to play than Ranged ones, we need more of MADC, and Riot should nerf RADC/bring back assassins, as they are way out of control.
You're given the edge in upfront damage because you have to be close to them. Also some of them do have CC. Yasuo has a knockup. Tryndamere has an AD debuff and a slow. That's part of why he's not hard to pick up, but harder to master. If your opponent knows how to play against a Tryndamere, then I agree with you, you're in for a tough, tough lane because his kit is so reliant on them making a mistake early so he can punish them hard, and then continue punishing them for it for the rest of the lane. This is why Tryndamere gets a hate thread on here almost everyday. It's a miserably boring lane to play.
Fiora and Master Yi are the only ones that have no CC. A fed melee ADC can easily 1v2, and sometimes 1v3. In team fights you need to know where to position yourself, and as someone who also mains support, I will tell you, it's not always as clear cut as saving your ranged ADC.
pripustas1 votesI don't consider slow a reliable cc. They still have mobility abilities, flash, heal. They are given an edge. Sounds so wonderful, except that they have like 20 more AD lvl18. They have basically the same health (very little difference), and the same armor/mr. Ranged champions also usually have at least 1 gapcloser (most of them) and some hard cc. Melee carries also get 1 gapcloser, and no hard cc. How is that an edge?
Baby Ghoul1 votesI don't consider slow a reliable cc. They still have mobility abilities, flash, heal. They are given an edge. Sounds so wonderful, except that they have like 20 more AD lvl18. They have basically the same health (very little difference), and the same armor/mr. Ranged champions also usually have at least 1 gapcloser (most of them) and some hard cc. Melee carries also get 1 gapcloser, and no hard cc. How is that an edge?
It's still CC, like it or not. Think of how over powered they would be if they had a hard CC with the kind of damage they do. They do that kind of upfront damage because they are melee. This is what I meant by flawed by design, which is why I'm really curious to see what they do to Fiora's kit.
pripustas1 votesYou mean cc like 
have?
Powderkegg1 votesThe only Marksman out of those that has any cc is Ashe and Varus because of their ults being able to snare multiple targets; Tristana doesn't have any snares or cc and the rest only have single target snares like Jinx's chompers and Caiytlyn's traps.
pripustas1 votesEmm so Melee carries have no snares at all, and you're justifying that by saying that ranged carries have only single target? Tristana's ult is a push, that is cc. Vaynes E or whatever that skill pushes the target, and stuns it if the target hits the wall. Chompers and Traps keep target in place. Melee carry cc: Yi: none Fiora: none Tryndamere: nice slow, not nearly good as a snare. Yasuo: Knockup, not nearly as good as a snare.
Powderkegg1 votescc stands for crowd control which includes abilities like Sejuani's ult or Annie's stun; which have the ability to locked down multiple targets ergo they're used for "controlling a crowed". Single target abilities as the ones listed are less viable as hard cc which is why you never see an adc run into the middle of a team fight and insta-lock everybody down. Champion kits like Yi and Fiora don't need any hard cc as they are assassin based carries and rely on massive burst to kill targets before they can react, both have abiliities which allow them to be untargetable for a period of time, Fiora's ult and Yi's alpha strike, thus their lack of any crowd controlling abilities. However their are melees which contain hard cc such as Reksai's unburrow, Wukongs ult, and Hecarim's ult capable of knocking up or stunning multiple targets.
Taredom1 votesEmm so Melee carries have no snares at all, and you're justifying that by saying that ranged carries have only single target? Tristana's ult is a push, that is cc. Vaynes E or whatever that skill pushes the target, and stuns it if the target hits the wall. Chompers and Traps keep target in place. Melee carry cc: Yi: none Fiora: none Tryndamere: nice slow, not nearly good as a snare. Yasuo: Knockup, not nearly as good as a snare.
Just wanted to chime in about the knockup comment, knockups are the strongest cc in the game. It's basically a stun that isn't mitigated by tenacity, cannot be cleansed, qss or cured by Mikaels.
pripustas1 votesIt is, but Yasuo's knockup is hard to hit, needs lots of practice, and the duration is a lot lower.
Baby Ghoul1 votesYou mean cc like
Did I say they didn't have CC? Melee ADCs do more upfront damage than those champions do because they don't have the range. If they had hard CC, more damage, and more mobility, then what would that make them?
pripustas1 votesViable.
Baby Ghoul1 votesViable.
Most people would call that overpowered. What do melee ADCs have? More damage, more mobility, gap closers, more sustain, and sometimes CC. You're ignoring all that, and I don't know why. If they have hard CC on top of that, then their only drawback would be that they have a shorter range. All of them are doing pretty nicely in the meta too.
They would need to sacrifice some of that other stuff to get that hard CC.
pripustas1 votesI did not overlook that. Ranged carries (most of them) have gap closers. And CC. And the difference in damage is small in compare of ranges. Look it up, Marksmen have almost the same stats Melee's have, and like 2-3% less AD. You think that's fair?
Earl Eulrich1 votesas up to date riot has not managed to create a viable and balanced melee-carry...i really don´t think that´s a good idea. they all turn into sort of snowball-assassins if they get going (you can also include irelia and xin as melee carries if build purly offensive).
steampig1 votesIt's because people think ADC = Marksman
Most people don't seem to know what the actual abbreviations mean.
Lumilifalor1 voteswe need a mobile kog with true damage % and a guardian angel passive.
Crossette1 votesVarus is starting to get played.
Vayne is the most played overall, in SEVEN OF THE SERVERS SHE IS MOST PLAYED. She's still broken as all hell and conquers the bot lane along with Kalista.
I see too many Trist and Ashe players.
The rest, not really every seen in my games.
Boomerangbro1 votesBut....I play Twitch... Anyway, he doesn't have any confirmable damage and can rarely trade with another adc until level 12. The only damage that is built into his kit is his contaminate which needs the use of AA's or his cask.
I would like to see damage on the cask, because he can rarely trade with anyone.
