I love how champions with no mana do more damage then champions that do have mana

Kip Killagin·Sep 20, 2015·24 votes·1,676 views

That makes alot of sense

52 Comments

Icestar1186Sep 20, 201515 votes

I love how people post things without evidence or examples

that makes a lot of sense

MimySep 21, 20159 votes

Gnar Enough said... LOL he hurts man..

DrNovaSep 21, 20151 votes

His damage is limited to procced passive while small, and then beast mode does a lot. But its a small window

LordGeovanniSep 21, 20153 votes

he has high damage in both forms just that you have to maintain difrent distances and moniter how much damage you take in small form

DryditchSep 22, 20151 votes

So, if you're playing a champion without escapes, you can get completely perma-slowed by boomerangs while you're in his AA range while slowed. That "procced passive" is far too easy to hit unless you plan on wasting cleanse or something to get away. The only champ I've ever managed to avoid a Gnar chase on was old GP because of his W and E...

DrNovaSep 23, 20151 votes

Not saying its a piece of cake but its not all that hard to dodge. Minion wave mostly stops it. Once he throws you engage with most ant top its a won trade and he prolly misses it and it goes in long cooldown

NarasimhaSep 21, 20151 votes

Darius does more.

JbelsSep 21, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I love how people post things without evidence or examples

that makes a lot of sense

Pantheon has high mana costs and his damage is laughable compared to Garen's.

HolyCrapItsMeSep 21, 20158 votes

on the other hand pantheon has a gap closer which stuns, an undodgeable ranged ability and a long range ultimate, while garen is limited to the 400 unit radius around him.

JbelsSep 21, 20156 votes

{quoted}

on the other hand pantheon has a gap closer which stuns, an undodgeable ranged ability and a long range ultimate, while garen is limited to the 400 unit radius around him.

Pantheon has High Mana Costs and Gnar does more damage than him

Amélie CauchemarSep 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Pantheon has High Mana Costs and Gnar does more damage than him

Because Pantheon wouldn't be a pick ban champ if he had no mana costs.

"Just dodge his Qs :B" "Just survive till he goes oom :B"

20% cdr Pantheon with no mana costs. gg 90% of top laners.

JbelsSep 21, 20158 votes

{quoted}

Because Pantheon wouldn't be a pick ban champ if he had no mana costs.

"Just dodge his Qs :B" "Just survive till he goes oom :B"

20% cdr Pantheon with no mana costs. gg 90% of top laners.

The fact of the matter is that mana is supposed to be a gate. It's supposed to limit how much damage you can do. Why some people are privileged with having no mana gate but still doing balls amounts of damage I don't know

Nik NikersonSep 21, 20151 votes

Because they have their own weaknesses. I'm not sure how you don't grasp this concept.

Chaotic ReksSep 21, 20152 votes

Gnar cool story

Nik NikersonSep 22, 20151 votes

Okay, Gnar, while really strong and a really safe top lane pick has his own issues that keep him from getting too out of hand. Like the timing of his rage bar, immobility in Mega-Gnar form, the fact you can play around his hyper procs to avoid the majority of his damage output when he's in mini-Gnar form, oh and when he transforms you can see it coming from a mile away. Really good Gnar players minimize these weaknesses, and maximize his strengths through solid play, but that's part of being a good player.

Chaotic ReksSep 22, 20151 votes

i only have a problem with his %max health damage, and scalings

NarasimhaSep 21, 20151 votes

Because mana isn't the ONLY gate. It's a gate, but far from being the sole one. Theres also range, regeneration, base stats, scalings, etc.

Ace Access Sep 21, 20151 votes

gnar also has 3 hit passive and ranged poke to go with it

HolyCrapItsMeSep 22, 20151 votes

Kits are hardly comparable by static damages, but lets give that comparison a shot.

Q- boomerang throw 125 damage +115% AD plus slow 10 second cooldown (2 if cought)

Q- Spear Shot 225 damage +140% Bonus AD 4 second cooldown

W- hyper 50 damage + 14% of targets HP +100% AP after 3 marks

W- Aegis of zeonia 150 damage +100% AP plus stun 9 second cooldown

E- Hop 180 damage +6% of max HP plus slow 12 second cooldown

E- Heartseeker strike 106 damage +120% of bonus AD 6 second cooldown

Since gnars ultimate doesnt have a damage in mini form I wont count pantheons ult aswell.

its true that mega gnar is stronger than pantheon, but mega gnar is a window of opportunity and is meant to make it more powerful than other champions.

As you can see, on the surface pantheons abilites, that cost mana, have more damage while also having lower cooldowns.

also, I dont think 45, 55 and 65 can be considered "high mana costs"

Slamurai JackSep 22, 20153 votes

Pantheons mana pool is really, really small. Play him, he goes oom all the time even without spamming skills too much.

Icestar1186Sep 21, 20151 votes

Panth is pretty weak this meta. Try Darius.

LuciferSep 21, 20151 votes

Riven and

Byakuya KuchikiSep 21, 20154 votes

like who? Aatrox this one it isn't true for DrMundo this one it isn't true for Mordekaiser is currently overpowered so this isn't a fair one to compare Vladimir this one it isn't true for Zac this one it isn't true for Akali this one it isn't true for Kennen this one it isn't true for LeeSin this one it isn't true for Shen this one it isn't true for Zed this one it isn't true for Garen is currently overpowered so this isn't a fair one to compare Gnar this one it isn't true for Katarina YOU GOT ONE RekSai this one it isn't true for Renekton this one it isn't true for Rengar YOU GOT TWO Riven YOU GOT THREE Rumble this one it isn't true for Shyvana this one it isn't true for Tryndamere this one it isn't true for Yasuo this one it isn't true for

so to recount you got 3 champions Katarina Rengar Riven a few of these champions you might argue do so lets see the ones that i consider a reasonable argument Akali Zed Tryndamere Yasuo ok so she is a very high damage champion who no one can truly outdamage in a teamfight thats her thing. she is also very prone to CC Rengar hes got the best burst in the game no one can kill a squishy faster however he has no teamfight presence Riven she can duel basically anyone that cant kill her before she gets her combo off however she has no teamfight presence and is only good at dueling Akali after her nerfs she can barely 1v1 most squishies Zed typical assassin basically the same burst as Fizz Tryndamere he can easily be outdamaged by the likes of MasterYi Udyr and Trundle Yasuo great teamfigher, his ult does amazing damage but nothing else, cant duel very well and after his ult he loses all of his damage

so you got 3 champs that this is true for #imbored

LordGeovanniSep 21, 20152 votes

ha more than half this list has high damage just because they have some counter parts that have mana doesnt mean that they arnt doing high damage themselves

Musashi 001Sep 21, 20158 votes

{quoted}

she can duel basically anyone that cant kill her before she gets her combo off however she has no teamfight presence and is only good at dueling

I DISAGREE! Almost all of her skills do some form of AOE damage plus her stun plus her AOE Ranged Execute. Plus every Riven builds Ravenous Hydra anyway. No team fight presense. Pfft.

Icestar1186Sep 21, 20151 votes

Riven either builds glass cannon with very little tankiness and dies to CC, or builds bruiser-y and doesn't have enough damage to kill anyone as long as the tanks are competent. She can snowball hard, but a fed anyone has good teamfight presence by virtue of having much higher presence in general than anyone else.

DragoonRuinSep 21, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Musashi 001,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9hul6JTI,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2015-09-21T08:23:54.927+0000)

I DISAGREE! Almost all of her skills do some form of AOE damage plus her stun plus her AOE Ranged Execute. Plus every Riven builds Ravenous Hydra anyway. No team fight presense. Pfft.

I laughed when they said no team fight presence also.

NublordSep 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

like who? this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for is currently overpowered so this isn't a fair one to compare this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for is currently overpowered so this isn't a fair one to compare this one it isn't true for YOU GOT ONE this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for YOU GOT TWO YOU GOT THREE this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for

so to recount you got 3 champions a few of these champions you might argue do so lets see the ones that i consider a reasonable argument ok so she is a very high damage champion who no one can truly outdamage in a teamfight thats her thing. she is also very prone to CC hes got the best burst in the game no one can kill a squishy faster however he has no teamfight presence she can duel basically anyone that cant kill her before she gets her combo off however she has no teamfight presence and is only good at dueling after her nerfs she can barely 1v1 most squishies typical assassin basically the same burst as he can easily be outdamaged by the likes of and great teamfigher, his ult does amazing damage but nothing else, cant duel very well and after his ult he loses all of his damage

so you got 3 champs that this is true for #imbored

Silver I player thoughts... You are the reason why people don't like low division players to talk about balance. Your list is so bad...

You can skip all this bullshit and jump right into last one to see how well "informed" you are, when you state that Yasuo can't duel or that his ult is his "dmg".

CrossetteSep 21, 20156 votes

Vladimir hurts.

Rumble hurts more.

LeeSin has a cancer ult without any cost.

ARGUMENT=OVER

Byakuya KuchikiSep 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

hurts.

hurts more.

has a cancer ult without any cost.

ARGUMENT=OVER

sure they hurt but not as much as champs with mana

CrossetteSep 22, 20151 votes

Which is the drawback to being resourceless/energy-using.

EDIT: Should be.

Nik NikersonSep 22, 20152 votes

Vlad isn't as bursty as many champs that do use mana.

Rumble, once again, isn't bursty the way many champs that use mana are.

Insec falls off and struggles to carry late game. Plus, it's hilarious to watch people screw up his ult and throw a fight with it. I wouldn't want to take that away by adding on a mana bar.

Rumble's damage output is mitigated by his Overheat bar. Vlad uses life as resource. Lee Sin is blind. They all have their own set of balances that aren't mana, so what is the point of all this?

CrossetteSep 22, 20151 votes

People are saying that mana sets certain champions back. You just made a super good point in that they have their own monitoring and resources. (and then there's Kat)

Also the amount of people that try to copy Insec has gotten to the point where I call everyone who plays him by that name. It's honestly kind of sad watching them try. xD

TL;DR: There's not really a point.

Nik NikersonSep 22, 20151 votes

.... And then there's Kat, indeed.

TyroneWatermelonSep 21, 20155 votes

{quoted}

like who? this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for is currently overpowered so this isn't a fair one to compare this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for is currently overpowered so this isn't a fair one to compare this one it isn't true for YOU GOT ONE this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for YOU GOT TWO YOU GOT THREE this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for this one it isn't true for

so to recount you got 3 champions a few of these champions you might argue do so lets see the ones that i consider a reasonable argument ok so she is a very high damage champion who no one can truly outdamage in a teamfight thats her thing. she is also very prone to CC hes got the best burst in the game no one can kill a squishy faster however he has no teamfight presence she can duel basically anyone that cant kill her before she gets her combo off however she has no teamfight presence and is only good at dueling after her nerfs she can barely 1v1 most squishies typical assassin basically the same burst as he can easily be outdamaged by the likes of and great teamfigher, his ult does amazing damage but nothing else, cant duel very well and after his ult he loses all of his damage

so you got 3 champs that this is true for #imbored

Most of the "isn't true" are actually true

Byakuya KuchikiSep 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Most of the "isn't true" are actually true

like which ones?

Chaotic ReksSep 21, 20151 votes

Shen late game can almost instaburst an adc, idk what you're talking about

Byakuya KuchikiSep 22, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=NyX Reks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9hul6JTI,comment-id=00020005,timestamp=2015-09-21T15:21:43.986+0000)

late game can almost instaburst an adc, idk what you're talking about

low quality b8

The Sword SaintSep 21, 20152 votes

Katarina doesn't do shit for damage on even items without resets, plus you can interrupt her ult or walk away from it.

Go into a lane and qwe and try to trade with them without dodging their abilities, you'll see that as far as straight damage is concerned she sucks if she's not ahead or diving on someone who's low hp.

MimySep 20, 20153 votes

Kindred has mana costs but some of her costs are sooo low.. its almost liek she is a mana less champion.. im not saying she can get too spammy, but once you get a bork on her RIP.

CrossetteSep 21, 20152 votes

Kindred's costs are all too low.

30,30,0 and 100? Fuck that noise.

Big LincolnSep 21, 20151 votes

W is 40

E is 70

seems about right

CrossetteSep 21, 20151 votes

The first time I played Kindred they were obscenely low.

Then again I was really tired so I probably read it ALL WRONG.

JungledSep 21, 20151 votes

Who still picks a mana champ? No one got time for mana regen.

Dagger Not FoundSep 21, 20151 votes

Anivia practically one shots u at level four and she has mana.

MD Kennen BotSep 21, 20151 votes

all base of skill, is your biased opinion thinking mana do less than energy, if ur smart u know energy champ has a gap between their abilities and by the time they can use their abilitys. its call punishing their mistakes when they use all their energy something low elos like you can't do.

BeMyFriendPleaseSep 21, 20151 votes

Idk where, but i remember riot saying if they added mana to kat, they'd have to buff her damage ratios because they aren't high enough.

So there ya go

PS: Ever seen a Yasuo who did little damage? :P

TyroneWatermelonSep 21, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Idk where, but i remember riot saying if they added mana to kat, they'd have to buff her damage ratios because they aren't high enough.

So there ya go

PS: Ever seen a who did little damage? :P

Yes.ALOT.