Whether Or Not If Vlad Is In a Good Spot Or Not He'll Still Have A Toxic Kit

commit an hero·Jun 27, 2015·70 votes·4,340 views

Just a daily reminder.

112 Comments

TwitchInMyPantsJun 27, 201511 votes

So does shaco. So does yasuo. So does kalista. So does Fizz. So does annie. A lot more too. Anti-fun is pretty common when it comes to characters being able to deny your ability to counterplay them, doesn't mean their design is inherrently bad for a strategy game tho. After all when they have weaknesses their strengths are only situationally oppressive. Ideally we wouldn't want anti-fun champs if avoidable tho when it comes to strategic diversity you're going to need to let players dick over or trick each other sometimes.

Silents429Jun 27, 201511 votes

Fun Fact, Vlad is the only champion Riot has apologized for releasing.

Not sure if anyone can sympathize but going against Vlad top is hell, Dealing with constant harass, his bullshit healing, his escape. I dove to him in between cooldowns, but sure enough he pools out, try again shortly after, just barely kill him, he turns starts whipping shit at me and it isn't even 3 minutes before he is back to full health, while I barely recovered my stats.

AyRe CoNteMpTJun 27, 20157 votes

vlad is in a good spot right now and his kit is in a good spot aswell. whats toxic about it? oh he can deal no damage for 20 minutes and cant lane against 90% of champs. very toxic.

commit an heroJun 27, 201536 votes

{quoted}

vlad is in a good spot right now and his kit is in a good spot aswell. whats toxic about it? oh he can deal no damage for 20 minutes and cant lane against 90% of champs. very toxic.

You must be dumb if you think he can't do damage before 20 minutes.

Ancestor007Jun 27, 20156 votes

he definitely can, but not at the level of Ekko Leblanc

NarasimhaJun 27, 201528 votes

Well, yeah. Hence why they're assassins, and he's not. World of difference. Sona does damage, but not as much as Diana or Akali, btw.

Auz the RipperJun 27, 201515 votes

I dunno, I've seen a full AP Sona before and that sh*t can be scary

A Miss FortuneJun 28, 20151 votes

I've carried games going 36-1 as Sona with a fully stacked Mejai's mid.

Sona mid can be scary since her Q and Passive altogether (late game base stats) can do like 452 with 90% AP scaling and on top of all of that the auto attack part of the combo does 40% more damage all on like a 6 second cooldown in most AP Builds. I'm really surprised I don't see it more often, she DOES damage and has awesome teamfighting abilities that are just doubled when she goes mid.

AnidanJun 28, 20152 votes

The reason you don't see it more often is because when Sona goes mid and does well consistently she gets nerfed for it, just like pretty much every other support that goes there successfully. If you want to keep her "sleeper" or whatever, you leave her out of the public eye and just abuse it yourself.

A Miss FortuneJun 28, 20153 votes

I agree, but It's also very frustrating for me personally to hear people say stuff like "Why are you playing Sona mid she's only a support" and stuff like that. I myself have played a lot of Supports like Janna, Sona, and Nami mid and have actually carried pretty well. Of course I get flamed in champ select but it just makes me want to show them that "Support" role can be filled by basically anyone that has CC, poke, or sustain and that playing stuff like AP Sona mid is actually really strong.

if they nef my ap nami mid i mite cry tho

chipndip1Jun 28, 20151 votes

I'd rather just support and build ap there. Sona has low wave clear. I'd rather have a real mid laner go mid and I'll just build ap with a Sight Stone.

A Miss FortuneJun 28, 20151 votes

But that's not really being a support, that's the same if I went AD Yi "Support" and just built a sightstone. Everyone has to ward anyways, and even junglers and some top laners build sightstone now so I wouldn't even say sightstone determines if you're a support.

I just went AP Sona bot lane with a Nami Supporting me against a Graves and Thresh and went 9-1-9. I've done a lot better to the point of going 36-4, 34-1, 38-3 though. She's really strong mid though and even when I main'ed Sona I felt like playing her support just didn't feel right. Nami does everything she does, but I think Nami has higher base stats. Whereas Sona scales much higher with AP and especially her damage excluding their ults which Nami has like 10% higher AP, but Sona's is also an instant stun.

Sona has low wave clear but that's really one of her few fall offs I've ever seen her have when I go mid. Just build a Lich Bane and start instakilling people.

chipndip1Jun 28, 20151 votes

Well, I don't build Lich Bane or magic penetration. I just go full on ap since that's what her skills scale off of...and I only have two rune pages, so I can't optimize like that. Even if I did have more pages, I'd keep the one I have as is and just dedicate to Sona. She scales just fine off of ap anyway.

Just cause you went support doesn't mean you have to build nothing but no damage support items. To boot, since you're support instead of the mid laner, the enemy won't prioritize you as much while you throw out moderately sized chunks of damage.

Ancestor007Jun 27, 20151 votes

Of course, but it seems to me like everybody is exagerating. It is only natural for a squishy to take more damage % wise than a tank. If you pick someone very squishy, you take a risk

NarasimhaJun 27, 20153 votes

I suspect the error was in your phrasing. No one has ever doubted that Vlad can do damage (exaggeration aside). The point is that he isn't known for his significant damage. Especially in top lane where bruisers and tanks roam abound, Vlad doesn't have great burst even with his ult. He's instead known for his consistency and sustain. So not really 'damage' per se, otherwise you may as well complain that Teemo has a lot of damage.

Kuroi86Jun 28, 20151 votes

Yes and no, while he doesn't deal much of any insta burst, his sustained damage builds up quickly, I've run into plenty of situations where his sustained casting was able to outdamage an ADC late game. In team fights his damage stacks up especially fast so long as he can get close enough to hit multiple targets with his tides of blood and ult.

FistOfSharkieshaJun 27, 20157 votes

He has 2 low damage abilities on a long cooldown, one of which slowly kills himself and has horrid base damage. I know he's strong, but he has a very abusable early game, even moreso than Nasus.

Z StatisticJun 27, 20158 votes

Except you're not counting the heal. In lane, the crucial point is hp difference. It doesn't matter HOW he came out with less hp lost than you, he did so don't do it gain unless you know he can't do whatever he did before. Vlad may only have 55+35rank+0.6AP damage on his Q, but if you look at the HP difference, it's now 60+40rank+0.85AP. That in and of itself is okish because he DOES need the regen to help mitigate the self damage of his W and E.

But now throw in a gun and suddenly not only is his Q healing for absurd amounts, but the SpV is negating most of the self cost of E.

Aboylova92Jun 27, 201517 votes

His poor early game is no where near as bad as what people say it is. In reality if you look at his kit, for however weak he may or may not be, he still has it in his kit to heal up anything you do to him as long as he doesn't play like an idiot. Are there counters to him? Absolutely, but he's one of those champions that's just annoying to play against because of his kit.

AyRe CoNteMpTJun 27, 20152 votes

whats so annoying about him? he can barely trade with anyone, he cant burst you down, he has no CC that makes you like "oh shit" and he has no jumps to gapclose on you or run away. his heal is super weak for the most part, waveclearing before revolver costs him half his hp and he has no powerspike on lvl 6. hes literally trash and the only thing he can do is run maximum movespeed and run away from everyone until 2 items.

like, he CANNOT LANE against many champions. there is literally nothing annoying about him except that whenever i have a vlad on my team in soloQ i have to dodge.

BetaDude40Jun 27, 201516 votes

Or, you know, low-cooldown manaless sustain could be the reason. You can easily get to a point where all you have to do to win a trade or heal poke is mash the E button in a minion wave and you're full health again. Like you said, all you need is a revolver and suddenly the health costs for your abilities are irrelevant.

AyRe CoNteMpTJun 27, 20152 votes

but the abilities are still weak and if tides of blood isnt stacked, he cant fight at all, zero damage. vladimir is annoying in a way that really stupid noobs who just started playing and arent very bright either have trouble against him because they dont understand when he is weak and when he is strong, so they just randomly trade and he sustains because thats the only thing he can do - fuck noobs who have no idea what they are doing.

its the same with leblanc really, you cant just lose to a champion and then be like "omg he is good at X, its impossible to win if you play into X and cant beat him, nerf pls"

BetaDude40Jun 27, 201514 votes

Tides of blood is on a 4.5 second cooldown.

It can stack up to four times.

If you just hit the ability every time it's up in a minion wave, you will get 4 stacks in 18 seconds. That sounds like a long time, but considering that the stacks last for ten seconds, it is moderately easy to stay on four stacks by constantly standing in a minion wave or harassing your opponent. This also isn't factoring in cooldown reduction, either. At 40% CDR, it is on a 2.7 second cooldown, which means you can hit max stacks at 10.8 seconds of spamming the ability. Each stack increases all forms of Vladimir's spell vamp, self-healing and health regeneration, which also stacks with itself multiplicatively. Spell vamp is only 33% effective in AoE, which Tides of Blood is counted as. However, it is 100% effective on single-target spells, such as Vlad's Q. Each stack of Tides of Blood increases all these effects by 4% per stack at level 1 to 8% per stack at level 5. However, as I said, these stacks are multiplicative, which means you don't get 8%/16%/24%/32% from your stacks at level 5, you get 8%/16.64%/25.9712%/36.048896% increased healing effects from your stacks at level 5. If you combine this with the item Spirit Visage and the mastery Second Wind, if you are below 25% health, you will get 42.56%/53.9648%/66.281984%/79.58454272% increased healing effects. Your spell vamp, health regen, and self-healing for all of your abilities is increased by 80% with just Spirit Visage and a mastery and four level 5 E stacks.

So, what does that mean? Well, if you drink a health potion, you would probably get about 270 health instead of the usual 150 health. Vladimir's base health regen is 17.2 at level 18. With all of what I just mentioned, it will be 30.96. Your spell vamp would also be pretty extreme. If you JUST had a hextech revolver for spell vamp, it would go from 12% normally to 21.6%. Spell vamp applies during the damage of an ability. Let's just see what Vlad's Q does with only 2 items, a mastery, and 4 stacks on a level 5 E while below 25% health:

Q on-hit damage: 90/125/160/195/230 (+60% AP) Spell Vamp applies 100% to single target abilities 21.6% of 230 is 49.68, or about 50 health. This is just from base damage alone. Let's assume you have a low 120 AP. 60% of 120 is 72 72 + 230 is 307 21.6% of 307 is 66.312 health healed. This may not sound like much, but we are using max rank Q and not counting damage/heal from E, with only 1 spell vamp item (3 items technically, assuming you're not using Deathcap as your 120 AP item and that we ignore extra damage from Luden's) And this ability at max rank is on a 4 second cooldown without CDR. Single target and undodgeable. With only ONE spell vamp item, ONE AP item, and a Spirit Visage And I'm not even factoring in the bonus health given from the ability itself, which is not affected by spell vamp but still scales off AP.

That's all I feel like typing for now. You can probably just extrapolate and imagine what a full-build Vladimir would be like with all of this.

AyRe CoNteMpTJun 27, 20155 votes

yeah you know, there is this champion called poppy who is probably the strongest carry in the game at full build because she is immune to EVERYTHING and instagibs even tanks. why does nobody play her? because you wont get to the point where you can do this consistently because of her really horrendous laning and impact early game, plus her jungle clear super sucks. very hard to play that champ.

vladimir is the same. he is literally 100% the same as poppy except they use him in pro games. if they would use poppy, you would see poppys in soloQ all day and they would suck and feed just like vladimir players do. she is literally not worse early and not worse late. her only downside is that she cant really push waves, which vladimir can and which is really the only thing that makes him viable.

you could say ryze is similar to vladimir in that he kinda needs to get a few items but he gets them a bit faster due to them being cheaper/better andhe also has a stronger laning phase, but still not the best. i would say, ryze is on the verge of viability, but still a rather bad pick.

the reason it works in LCS and not in soloQ is because of the teamplays. you see basically not a single game where people "just lane" and then after 20 minutes group sometimes for something. they always do some early rotations to at least try and create scenarios where their champions can be utilized and then protect them so they can actually get the gold they need. tho they dont do that because its like "the best" strategy but only because its "meta" right now.

as in every game, the meta shifts constantly and even without patches in many other esports-games you see the meta changing even after years without a patch and people finding new ways to beat things and suddenly some things become completely unviable not because they have been changed, but just because people figured out the weaknesses. and saying "they are pros, they know their shit" is so ignorant. pros dont know ANYTHING about the game that a regular person cant know. like, bonzo98 from bronze 3 can literally know as much about the game as doublelift in theory.

i remember the days when "pros" played high-killpressure champs and actually fought in lane, not like now where they play the gayest most passive bullshit possible. and im 100% sure that the day will come when pros will actually start playing fighters again and actually FIGHT for dominance and create pressure. and then nobody will play vladimir or ryze because they dont have pressure, they are literal cheese champions.

and just to get back to the point of vladimir: he cannot lane against MOST champions. like, he goes to lane, he gets traded and dived and killed over and over again or just simply lanefrozen and zoned because hes SO WEAK and so shit and the only option he can be allowed to get to 2+ items is a team that builds around his lategame and works towards getting him gold for 20 minutes. that doesnt happen in soloQ and thats why the champion is just not viable.

the same would happen if a pro team would pick like darius vs vladimir in toplane and then work towards denying him. if the team puts effort into isolating toplane and denying the vladimir his teams help, darius can shut him down to a point where vlad has 30 cs when his team surrenders at 20.

you cant look at LCS and then say "but people play X there so it must be good". they play X because everything has certain strengths so they work out X strengths and play towards them as a team. it doesnt mean X by himself is viable, it means he has a certain power that this team wants so they put effort into drawing that power out because they believe for some reason that it helps them win the game.

BetaDude40Jun 28, 20152 votes

I never said a single word about his viability in the LCS. I didn't even mention the term "LCS" until just now. Why are you throwing words into my mouth I have never said? I don't care about what pro players think of him or what they would do as/against him.

Vladimir's entire tactic is to just out-sustain you to death. Purely and simply, that is his goal. There are several factors, combined with the champion itself which can make this unhealthy

1. Vladimir has no mana. This is one of the biggest issues I have with him (or mostly any manaless champ, really) in that he is unconstrained by anything except cooldowns to continue attacking you. And, let's face it, those health costs aren't going to affect you after you get your core item. On other champions, like Gnar, this is mostly an annoyance. But on Vladimir, when you can actually get substantial amounts of health from nothing but spam, then it's a huge problem.

2. Vladimir can be untargettable. This is less of an issue I have in the laning phase and more of an issue I have in any general circumstance. Being untargettable is a very powerful form of utility, and while his offers no gap closers, it is the longest untargettable ability in the game. I understand that the health cost for this ability is actually pretty substantial, but between 20% of your current health or getting hit by tons of damage, I'd easily take the former. I'll give that Vladimir seems to pay more for having this ability in his kit than others (e.g. Fizz, Ekko). But yeah, it also heals him. Because, you know, he doesn't already have enough sustain.

3. Vladimir is entirely point-and-click. This is something that is obviously controversial territory. On one hand, point-and-click abilities tend to be purposefully made to be substantially weaker than they're skillshot counterparts in exchange for their much higher rate of hits. On the other hand, this can lead to much more effective harassing, damaging, and is much more difficult for enemies to react to in-game. It's not necessarily bad, he pays for it by having low range, but it's a health problem nonetheless. I'm also not saying to make everything he has skillshots, either, because I hate it when that's the only solution the balance team can come up with. It's not a hugely bad problem, but a problem nonetheless.

4. Vladimir is rewarded with tankiness for building damage, or vice versa. The absolute number-one complaint from every player who complains about Riven, no matter what elo, is that she is rewarded with a very effective shield for building nothing but damage. To be fair, Singed also has an ability like this, except like Vladimir's, it's a passive and remains with him throughout the game. I personally think the general idea of getting the best of both tankiness and damage is something you have to tread very lightly in. In the case of Vladimir, it's only health, but with the interesting quirk in that it also works the other way around, where he gains AP for however much health he builds. Given, the exchange rates aren't the highest (AP = 2.5% bonus health; Health = 140% AP) and they seem to favor more towards building AP than health. However, this is quite an interesting issue, in that Vladimir, if he gets behind, can indeed build tank and still do damage assuming he gets enough health. I'm also not counting health and AP modifiers making issues with his passive (Items like Rabadon's, or Masteries like Juggernaut) and increasing the exchange rates by more than they should.

I understand Vladimir's strengths and weaknesses, and I honestly believe that the strengths he is given are just way too good for someone built entirely around sustain. At the moment, I don't have any solutions that could put him in a good spot, but I might eventually have an idea to get him into a place where he's not so binary and tough to deal with.

AyRe CoNteMpTJun 28, 20151 votes

i UNDERSTAND all of your problems with him but i simply dont agree.

many champions have no mana and i cant see where vladimir is more unleathy and toxic than many other champions, even some mana ones. champions like riven, katarina, zed, gnar, rexai, lee sin are absolutely insane and have way more raw power than vladimir in their kits. even tho katarina can be said to be kinda weak in lane, her very long range and even higher safety makes up for it tho and i really dont see this many katarina whine threads.

and honestly, all those champions ARE weaker than strong fighters due to them all having some sort of mobility other than movespeed and no mana. they are just weaker and their only power is extended poking and trading that out-sustains not only enemies health but also their mana, but thats when you play another weak champion they are ALLOWED to do that. you COULD play a STRONG FIGHTER and deny them everything BECAUSE of their weakness. in league of legends, people really refuse to beat weak champions with strong champions and instead complain about their scaling. its NOT a design flaw, its a mentality flaw.

yes, untargetability is pretty annoying but vladimirs is one of the LEAST annoying ones because of its long cooldown, low damage and the synergy with the rest of his kit. i would complain about fizz any day before vladimir. you know whats even worse than untargetability? knockups. and many more champions have knockups than untargetability, and THATS really unhealthy.
well, vladimirs ultimate is somewhat of a skillshot but other than that, there are like MANY MANY champions that are almost entirely point&click and it doesnt hurt them either. like, who cares. skillshots have other advantages to make up for their lack of consistency. they usually have longer ranges, you can hit invisible/hidden champions, you can check brushes, you can sometimes hit multiple people. thats why there cant be a long range targeted ability, but with vladimirs range he basically gives you a kill if he ever Qs you if you dont play a shitty champion.
vladimir is the prime example of a scaling champion, maybe along with nasus. both of them scale so tremendously on being left alone to farm and they get really oppressive with some items later on, but why is nasus not being played much anymore? because people actually push him out of lane now and even kill and dive him because hes just THAT WEAK and the only way he can live through laningphase is by maxing his spiritfire and farming with it because he literally cannot touch minions against most champs but then again, that prevents him from stacking his Q and therefore scaling strong.

the same goes for vladimir, but the problem here is that people try to "counter" him with other weak laners and "outscale" but "outscaling" is a myth that doesnt exist. either you are able to fight and dominate, or you leave the entire game up to luck. you literally say "i will not participate in this game for 20 minutes and if its still even enough for me to be relevant, lets go and try to win".

most games are decided way before 20 minutes tho, not only on pro level but ESPECIALLY in soloQ, which goes heavily against the viability of vladimir and similar champions. seriously, let him scale if he wants to and just play the game its supposed to be played.

BetaDude40Jun 28, 20151 votes

I think you're misunderstanding the entire topic of the post, really. Toxic =/= strong, it just means poorly designed, and for Vladimir's goal of out-sustaining his enemy and what he is given to perform that task, it is quite toxic. Toxic kits tend to be complained about more often on stronger champions, simply because they are strong and toxic at the same time.

Take, for example, pre-rework Sion. He wasn't a strong champion, but he was often regarded as being one of the most toxic champions in the League. All a Sion then would do is leave E on the entire game, charge and detonate shield for some waveclear to assist in getting your bonus health, and Q if someone feels threatening. He had absolutely no power in teamfights unless he purposefully charged his shield beforehand and then tried to stand in the middle of the enemy team. After that, he would stun the carry and then become a meatshield. Alternatively, he would be one of the most annoying split pushers in the game, with a lock-on instant stun every 4-ish seconds. You pretty much had to have 2 or 3 people to deal with Sion alone, but he was almost entirely useless in teamfights and had no presence there. It was unfun to fight him, it was unfun to play as him, it was just generally boring and extremely binary.

This is a similar issue with Vladimir, although he is also a pretty strong champion. You claim that his power spike will take a while to achieve, but really, even if you skip the long-drawn-out methods I said a couple posts earlier, a hextech revolver will surely get him at least manageable. What you say is to counterpick him by intentionally bullying him out of lane with some type of early game bully. This is just way easier said than done, due to his harass and sustain being pretty good even at these early levels, despite their significantly longer cooldowns. Plus, counterpicking does not exist in blind pick or teambuilder, so that option of fighting him is practically exhausted. Both Nasus and Vladimir share some amount of sustain, otherwise they would simply be bullied out of lane, but this isn't always the case.

If you were to take a non-ranged fighter into a Nasus, with the intent of harassing the ever-loving hell out of him, his farming may be hindered, but it's not going to stop him from farming under tower. Plus, Nasus has one of the greatest peels in a single ability that has ever been created, which is especially useful on those low-mobility champs. It's not impossible to bully out a Vladimir, but he's going to get a revolver and then it will be so much harder for you to affect him. It's not fun to play a game where you have to babysit this one guy and make sure he doesn't get as much farm, so that at least when he gets his revolver, you'd have a chance to get a item 3211 or something.

My other post explaining the power behind his abilities was merely just a post showing how strong he was. If you could heal more than half a health potion in the damaging portion of a single, 4 second cooldown no-cost ability with only 3 items, not counting any other runes, masteries, or health from practically every other source, then I'd probably say something was wrong.

Keep saying to just bully him out of lane and that he is extremely weak. This is how all carry-oriented champions start out. They just have to play a game of survival for the first 10 minutes and then once they get some items they simply outscale their opponent. There is a reason that Nasus and Vladimir are NOT underplayed (at least just from personal experience in lower elo, although they are far from as uncommon as you make them sound) is because of their carry-oriented kits. A game is very unlikely to end before 20 minutes, but games can go on upwards to an hour, with some extreme cases lasting significantly longer. Hypercarry/hyperscaling champs remain useful throughout this entire time. Yeah, you could pick Darius and go against Vlad, but unless he absolutely stomps Vlad, Darius is going to fall off due to his poor late-game scaling, and Vlad will just slowly increase in power. This is normal for people like Nasus, where the only response is just to stay in lane and hammer the hell out of them until they go farm a different lane, or they buy a core item that increases their damage or survivability even more.

Vladimir is not as strong as other people, but he is so much more of a pain to go against that I'd just rather not. With the AP item changes and poor MR itemization, Vlad will remain to be pretty strong, even if put a good ways behind, simply because all it takes is a few items to get back in completely. He scales, but he scales too hard, and when his goal is to out-sustain, it will cause significant issues.

AyRe CoNteMpTJun 28, 20152 votes

i do understand the point and im not saying vladimir is like the best champ design in the game, but he is so weak and so useless, its literally a waste of time to talk about nerfing him.

also, you are using the word "bully" over and over again. there is no "bully" in this game, there is only "i go and let him poke me for free because im a fool" or a "if he wants CS, he will die"

you talk about revolver because it gives him sustain so if i deal 10% of his health in damage he will heal it back so its "hard to bully" but if you play a strong champ, he will take 80% and the next time he will try it, he will die.

vladimir basically has the same weakness as trandamere. to sustain, he needs to fight, but if you zone him from even being able to fight, he cant lane.

good thing most fighters in this game are able to do this easily. also, vladimir is easy to gank despite common belief. all he can do is walk 2 seconds untargetable and then thats it. most junglers and laners have enough cc and/or damage to kill him in 2-3 seconds, ESPECIALLY if he has to overextend to get farm because the fighter froze the lane.

midlane vladimir is a bit harder because the lane is so short, but there are some midlaners who outscale him bigtime (cassio, azir, even ryze) so if he picks vlad and wants to "scale", you can go azir and still dominate the lane while outscaling him at the same time.

btw, most fighters who can beat vladimir early can beat him all game long and thus "outscale" him aswell.

PS: you talk about spectres cowl and such. i will repeat what im saying in every thread about champion complaints: if you try to beat a champion in his field of power, you will lose. vladimirs power is doing really bad trades and then sustaining up nevertheless. this means, if you buy defense against a vladimir without having killpower allready, you lose the game and you deserve it.

PPS: tho if vladimir got a really nice rework, i wouldnt mind. tho i think he is one of the champs in game who are most true to their class (vampire) and as such, i kinda like the idea. even tho i dislike him very much ingame.

HaloJun 28, 20151 votes

Oh come on. Thats not the only problem poppy's got. You didnt even mention that she doesnt have a single ranged ability or harass and that any champ with any mobility can kite her without a problem. Shes got more bad matchups than elise for gods sake.

You cant fucking compare vlad and poppy. They are way too diffrent. Vlad is a lae bully that is really good at sustainging the lane no matter what while also harassing the enemy down. Hes go real good teamfight an is generally a pain in the ass to play against. Hes also got one of the easiest laningphases in the GAME.

Poppy on the other hand might be a strong carry but. She is easily kiten because the only cc shes got is one that requires a wall and also pushes the enemy away. She is not invoulreble when she ults. She jus cant take dmg or get affected by anyone but the person she ults. This means that unless the enemy have someone without any cc or dmg it damm hard to find a good target to ult. The only ingage she got is running in and clicking e and that is all the stickyness shes got. She is extremly voulreble to long range harass too.

You wanna know why none plays poppy in lcs nor in soloq for that matter?

Shit laning phase
Farm reliant
Doesnt contribute to teamfight almost what so ever.
She isnt a tank (usualy)
No sticky potential (counterd by mobility)
What she does others do better and safer.
Shes one of the most if not the most mana hungry champ IN THE GAME. lvl 1 she can use 4 q:s and level 8 she can use around 7. She is extremly mana hungry.
Shes got no sustain or shield what so ever. The only way to avoid dmg is wit her passive.

i would say, ryze is on the verge of viability, but still a rather bad pick.

Yeah right.

ps: U dont have a single game with poppy or vladimir. Id expect ateast 1 game with either champ with this many opinions but you have never played either one...

AyRe CoNteMpTJun 28, 20152 votes

i have some games with them in normals and i have MANY MANY MANY games AGAINST them in ranked too. but i wouldnt be stupid enough to actually pick them myself in ranked after talking so badly about them, would i?

also, vladimir isnt a lane-bully. vladimir is a lane victim who can only "bully" the shittiest of shitty melee tanks. try bullying riven, darius, garen, irelia, wukong, shyvana, talon, fiora and many other strong or "somewhat strong" champions.

like, in midlane he might be able to live through most matchups due to the shortness of the lane, but in toplane there is no way he can even lane. if you let him, its entirely your fault. so yes, you can compare him to poppy.

HaloJun 28, 20151 votes

Have you ever seen a competent vlad player? Watch some games of that and then come back and tell me tgat he isnt a lane bully.

AyRe CoNteMpTJun 28, 20151 votes

show me a competent vlad player playing a best of series against a competent darius and then tell me again he is a bully

3TWarriorJun 27, 20153 votes

okay, your point just became entirely irrelevant. if a "noob" is playing as or against him, of course they're going to lose lane

vladimir is a champ designed to die as little as possible while not being overbearing

if he has max stacks of his E in a crowd of 10 minions, it costs him about 150 health to heal 400 health from all the damage he is doing, so a net gain of 250, then 125% amplification bonus on his Q makes him pretty rough to deal with

in a sustained fight, vlad wins, just like swain, mordekaiser, ekko, olaf, etc

unlike actually toxic champs(like ekko used to be since he's not seen every game anymore), vlad is fairly balanced, low range and can hold his own even against two enemies so long as he doesn't use his W to engage and his ult does a fairly massive amount in an AOE

TrumpetJun 27, 20153 votes

vlad is only balanced because spell vamp was gutted.

I Main SwainJun 27, 20155 votes

any good vlad player in existence that reads this will either laugh at you or cry for you

AyRe CoNteMpTJun 27, 20151 votes

there are basically no good vlad players
if someone thinks hes a good vlad player, he has never laned against a good fighter

but i dont want to stop you from ruining your life and other peopls games with vladimir. its just a little input for people who have not fallen yet

HaloJun 28, 20155 votes

Youre the most self-impotant person ive seen on this forum in a while.

AnidanJun 28, 20153 votes

"There are basically no good vlad players"

... you shitting me right now? There are plenty of good Vlad players, whether you care to look for them or not. Just like there are plenty of good [insert any champion here] players.

"If someone thinks he's a good Vlad player, he has never laned against a good fighter."

I honestly want to know: What does this even mean? Are you implying that people are only good with a champion when they never fight their counter? Because that makes no sense.. at all. If you're a good Vlad player, then you'll be a good match for any other good player, fighter or otherwise. Or was this meant to imply "no Vlad player, good or otherwise, will ever win against a good fighter player"? Because if so, that's also untrue.

But y'know, keep on thinking what you think, I guess. It's not like either of our opinions are going to be held in high regards when it comes to balance anyway.

AyRe CoNteMpTJun 28, 20151 votes

if you main a champion, and i dont just mean playing him alot of games, but also really understanding him, you will actually stop playing said champion once you realize hes not viable or he has so many bad matchups that he can actually not be played in an impactful way.

like, sure you can be a good player and still pick vladimir and still beat what currently is called "the meta" but if you play vladimir 10 games in a row against an evenly skilled fighter champion player, you would stop playing vladimir except if you are somewhat of a masochist.

every champion has strengths and weaknesses. vladimirs strength is his absurd scaling and lategame-teamfight power while is weakness is that he cannot lane to get any gold ever. its pretty balanced if you think about it like that, tho its probably unhealthy in a way that the balancing is just too extreme. you could power up his laning by threefold and nerf his scaling so he would actually be somewhat decent in every part of the game but not oppressive at 7+ items.

LuciferJun 27, 20157 votes

I remember when Vlad came out. Riot apologized

Mandang0Jun 27, 20153 votes

Heaven forbid Riot release a kit without hard CC, gapclosers, or %HP damage...

TransgressorJun 27, 20155 votes

What does this have to do with OP's argument?

Schlachsahne76Jun 27, 20152 votes

Play Aatrox against him. More damage, sustain, engage after he used his Q on minions.

OyddAWqJ5rJun 27, 20152 votes

Sounds like a good way to get your Q pooled. It's more like: attempt to land E and if you land E chase him and smack him. If he pools during this then the next time he steps into Q range within ~15 seconds of pooling you should Q him and lay down some deeps.