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Build Full Tank, Yet Deals More Damage Than Rest Of Team

SymbolicFear··5 votes·4,999 views

Am I the only one who feels as though someone who is supposed to tank damage yet still be able to burst down any target is kinda stupid?

I am just fine with them being able to hold their own, but building full tank should mean less damage, it should be that simple, more health or more damage. But with the juggernauts, they will build no damage items and sacrifice nothing at all as their damage will still be ridiculous. Garen and Darius for example will easily carry a game due to being so tanky and difficult to deal with while they run through your team and delete your ADC which is kinda funny considering how juggernauts only real weakness is kiting.

I just don't find League to be in a good place with how these juggernauts are... Mainly due to the fact that you either play Gnar or another juggernaut in top lane or you are guaranteed to lose when you do face a juggernaut, considering they are the only things played in top lane now.

Juggernaut Lovers, no posting "X champion can beat X champion if your good" cause it works both ways and its not helpful... Also, don't go saying your champion isn't overbearing cause if that was true, you probably wouldn't be playin it.

30 Comments

TehNACHO8 votes

Also, don't go saying your champion isn't overbearing cause if that was true, you probably wouldn't be playin it.

Was not aware that Wukong was so overbearing.

First of all, squishy, squishy, squishy ADCs die to everything. They usually don't have health pools like Fighters and some mages and they don't have Resistances like tanks. You need to admit it, complaining that an ADC is dying quickly is a weak argument seeing that you can breathe on most of them and chunk 30% of their HP at a time.

Second of all, how the fuck are slow moving melee champions getting on top of the ADC in the first place, and are being allowed to stick to the ADC long enough to get enough of their Passive to chunk the ADC.

SymbolicFear1 votes

First of all, Wukong isn't a juggernaut... he is a fighter.... second of all, Darius has a rather long range pull, Garen has his Q which removes slows and gives speed buff, Renekton has a double dash, believe me, just because they have 5 less movement speed doesn't mean they can't get on top of someone. Thirdly, juggernauts deal enough damage to kill without using their passive, and they do it bursts.... doesn't take any more than 1.5 to 2 seconds for someone who actually plays that juggernaut.

TehNACHO7 votes

Juggernauts are but a subclass of Fighters, lol.

Darius' pull does not even reach ADCs from standard AA ranged, due to how AA range and skill range are calculated differently. Ergo, he shouldn't normally be able to reach a half competent ADC.

Garen's Q does nothing to absolutely any other form of movement impairing CC, and only grants 30% movement speed. This speedbuff is in fact weaker to pre rework Garen's speedbuff, and nobody thought pre rework Garen was hard to peel, even considering pre rework Garen's Tenacity.

Renekton...is a Dive Fighter, the second subclass of Fighters, like Wukong is, lol.

Finally, sure. This is an argument you can easily substantiate with proof. Give some hard math and a realistic setting on which we can see a Juggernaut bursting down an ADC in less than one second. Anything more is DPS, so it would be cheating to call that Burst, so let's see what you can scrounge up in less than a second.

Shahamut3 votes

I would submit that Garen can burst you down that quick.... IF and only IF you are the villian... oh and you are caught out solo... and have no dashes or knockback or slows or... yeah...

I have bought Frozen Mallet on my adc's before just to deal with these kinds of guys. Use Vayne, and buy a Mallet... its funny watching them try to run :P

SymbolicFear1 votes

I shouldn't have my champion pool limited to just one or two champions out of the 120 just to be ABLE to enjoy a game.

TehNACHO3 votes

Except Shahamut doesn't even limit you to one or two champions. Every auto attacker in the game can use Frozen Mallet.

Bro read the post why don't you.

SymbolicFear1 votes

Yeah, everyone can use frozen mallet, but vayne is the only one with enough damage after getting frozen mallet. Considering most other ADCs need crit, attack speed and AD items to make them useful, and everyone needs boots. Plus, since AP has been nerfed so hard there isn't as much pressure to buy magic resist and im seeing more and more juggernauts go 4 high armor items THEN spirit visage and boots... Taking an ADC that isn't vayne an eternity to deal with them due to just how heavy their armor is.

Shahamut3 votes

sacrificing a single damage item for Frozen Mallet is more than worth it if it keeps you alive. You damage is zero while dead.

What I am saying is that if Juggernauts are your problem, buy a frozen mallet. Same as if suppressions or major cc are your problem you buy a QSS.

TLDR: If you are dying too quickly to Juggernauts, buy Mallet: A living ADC does more damage than a dead one. Same situational buy as QSS to counter lots of hard cc.

SymbolicFear1 votes

That is true, but what about juggernauts like Garen? Who removes all slows on a really low cooldown? Or Darius who just simply pulls his targets to him, or renekton, who simply double dashes and stuns you for over half your health? There is counterplay to counterplay. Which is something so few people care to think about.

Shahamut1 votes

Garen can only remove the slow once, so keep attacking. Darius has a pull yes, but it can be baited or dodged. Depending on who you are playing, he may not be able to reach you if you are kiting well.

Renekton is a tougher one, but if he has to double dash to get to you, then he has no escape after he gets his first round of damage off, making his play much riskier. If you are adc, you shouldnt be fighting him 1v1 unless you have some mobility as well and some lifesteal. And he certainly doesnt 100 to zero you unless he is super fed, at which point I again ask, where is your team?

And you can come back with things like, "but flash" and what not, but if I had to burn a summoner just to get onto you, then it was worth, especially if you are able to escape, or if you baited me into your team (greed is real), at worst case, you could also have flash.

Again, if Juggernauts are your problem, get a frozen mallet and kite. Also, its a team game. As a squishy carry, you should be with your team. There are some great guides out there about how to teamfight as an ADC, look into them so you don't make silly mistakes and get bursted down for nothing.

They aren't impossible man, keep your chin up and keep learning.

SymbolicFear1 votes

Its not that I need to learn. I don't play bot lane at all actually. I main all other roles besides bot lane. So even as a juggernaut user, I can see they need nerfs. They are too prevalent in the game right now.

Shahamut2 votes

Its not that I need to learn

And we are done. :(

SymbolicFear1 votes

Its not a role i personally enjoy. I used to love being an adc AND a support, but I have gotten to a point now where the champions i love just are outmatched lately, once Sivir gets to a point where she can do things just as good as everyone else, ill go back down there. There is just too much going on bot lane at the moment for me to thoroughly enjoy the role anymore. Ive been playing a fairly long time.

SymbolicFear1 votes

1.5 to 2 seconds. Burst is using one combo of abilities to quickly delete a target. Bruisers are juggernauts, Renekton, Garen, Darius, Skarner, Mordekaiser, and Wukong is NOT A JUGGERNAUT. Also, YES you have a team to peel for you when you are the adc, but what people fail to realize is that THERE IS AN ENEMY TEAM TOO. They can cc your people too, and there are such abilities like Ghost and Flash as well that doom an ADC. Yes you can flash away, but if a Darius flashes on you, odds are you won't be able to flash away fast enough before you get pulled ignited and most of the time, cc'd by an enemy champion other than darius.

TehNACHO3 votes

So in short, you don't take up my offer on the easiest way to prove your argument.

Well then.

And you do realize the pull bug was fixed a long time ago so that it's damn near too easy to flash out of Darius' pull, right?

SymbolicFear1 votes

Yes, I know his bug was fixed. I also know you just want to defend your juggernauts and freelo but get over it. Juggernauts are way too prevalent and need to be looked over again to get League back to a point where stronger champions weren't what won the game.

TehNACHO2 votes

Except...not a Juggernaut main.

As you so happily pointed out.MonkeyKing

SymbolicFear1 votes

Ah, Wukong normally beats juggernauts so its still Freelo for you, so shush.

Malicious Metal6 votes

A Juggernaut's going to destroy anyone foolish enough to get too close. So yeah, Wu may be able to kill them early on but a full build Juggernaut is one of the most lethal things there is in League.

SymbolicFear1 votes

Exactly my point, they are just dominating the game and its so annoying to have to deal with them every single game and watching them be the true carry every single game. They are just too prevalent right now.

Big Lincoln4 votes

But with the juggernauts, they will build no damage items

item 3071 item 3748 item 3053

"no damage items"

you're probably the sort of person who fights Darius at level 1 long enough for him to get his passive and kill you

SymbolicFear1 votes

No, I don't. And not every juggernaut needs those, hell, when they do build one, they only build ONE. But yeah, I suppose its just fine for a nigh unkillable tank to build just Black Cleaver to gain the ability to slaughter everyone easily... and next we will have a champion who's passive is "kill all champions within 500 units after 2 seconds" and who's ultimate has a passive that makes them immortal. That's balanced right?

Vekkna1 votes

1350 hp, 100% health regen, and a passive clutch shield....on an offensive core.

You're kinda proving OP's point.

Big Lincoln3 votes

offensive items =/= full tank

1350 HP with only 2 slots for big resistance items means that they're vulnerable to % damage and heavy DPS will still whittle them down quickly.

IcyPepper2 votes

105 AD, +25% base attack damage, armor shred, cleave passive and active, and a clutch base AD boost.

You totally ignored the offensive portions of those items, and just listed the defensive portions to claim that guy was proving OP's point that a full tank build will deal more damage.

Yes, those items you listed have offensive stats and abilities and you completely ignored them to make them look like tank items. They are not [pure] tank items. That's a logical fallacy that goes under a few names, such as cherry picking.

CHERRY PICKING (also known as: suppressed evidence, fallacy of incomplete evidence, argument by selective observation, argument by half-truth, card stacking, fallacy of exclusion, ignoring the counter evidence, one-sided assessment, slanting, one-sidedness

Sauce.

Mr Versatility3 votes

I'd down vote twice if I could. I for one never had a problem with any champion. Sure I may lose lane to them whenever I don't know exactly how to counter them, but once you master the art of not sucking so bad, you may get out of wood 5.

edit: Sounds crazy but I think riots changes this season are really good for the game.

SymbolicFear1 votes

I know how to deal with them, the main problem I have with the juggernauts now is just the fact they are in every game cause they just straight up outclass the other champions in top lane a majority of the time. Plus, none of them are actually difficult to do overly well with and are too straight forward to have the kind of damage output and tank-ability they have. Every says you just need to kite them, yet ADCs are so squishy they are killed almost instantly. Not to mention the fact that there are not all that many marksmen who can handle tanks so well. Mostly just Vayne, Jinx, and Kalista for the most part.

math crab3 votes

why is anyone fucking disagreeing with this are you delusional if you don't build damage you shouldn't get any fucking damage, this is not rocket science

SymbolicFear2 votes

THANK YOU, FINALLY SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS MY POINT

RogueKnightOO1 votes

I am one of the few people that main Malphite. Ilove him lol. Anyway he is a Tank and i build him HP, Mana,Armor, Magic resist. And i hate to say it but........your right. His ult launches you at target/targets, and does up to 400 damage plus stuns them for 2 secs. That gives me time to use E which scales off my Armor....see were this is going? My E can get easily to 400+ damage. So by using Ult Plus E = garented kill. My best score with him is 17/0/12. Lol a little OP tbh but ilove him <3

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