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Can AP mages can a Keystone equivalent to “Press the Attack”

xJLx MCHammer··34 votes·2,481 views

For ranged AA champion, i don’t understand why Riot was so happy to give those champion even more reliable damage.

Yet you have AP champions who even get reliable keystones. Comet, which is designed for AP champions isn’t even picked as much as Aery because of it’s unreliability. Yet, the irony is that AP champions (not all) at the ones who have the most uncertainty is landing their damage. After all, a Karthus has to constantly land Q to dish out damage. A Anivia must land a slow moving ability...etc

Why can’t AP champions get some equivalent to the Press the Attack rune? Comet clearly isn’t reliable. Laughably, Aery is designed for enchanters. Thunderstrike or thunder-lords is on a tree that doesn’t really fit all AP champions.

Can we get a keystone that’s actually rewarding for champions who have to constantly land spells like Karthus. Playing Karthus now just feels weird; this is especially true using comet. You work hard to land one Q against all the mobility this game over and now you also have to hope to land a keystone

Why decrease reliability on champions that already have uncertain reliability? Yet you give more reliability to champions that have sustained damage...

52 Comments

AirKingNeo12 votes

Again, Electrocute. Domination is fine.

Rayjay Redfang6 votes

It is kind of inconvenient to use all of your spells to trigger it on karthus. Some champs just need alternate keystones.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

W and two Qs will proc it, I believe.

Rayjay Redfang1 votes

They don't have to be unique spells/attacks in all 3?

NineTailedMystic2 votes

Just tested in practice tool. I was under the assumption that the same spell could trigger Electrocute, but not the same spell cast. EX: Cass E x3, Karthus W, Q Q... But I guess that isn't the case.

WEQ will trigger it though :^)

Rayjay Redfang1 votes

Throwing in an aa should work as well since it counts as an attack. Still not preferable on karthus.

yay nibbers3 votes

Electrocute does work like that (three casts of the same spell). I just tried it in the practice tool, it doesn't work on the dummy for some reason but I did it on the champion bot so it does work.

WQQ will not proc it though, Wall of Pain doesn't do damage lol turns out I was wrong and the spell doesn't need to do damage, but WQQ doesn't seem to proc it anyway.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

I thought all WoP type effects did 1 true damage to count as Assists. Pillar, Veigar cage, etc

TheGoomyGamer2 votes

I think it was only things that didn't inflict debuffs, like being near veigar cage or anivias wall.

MangelinaJolie2 votes

WQQ WILL proc it. The spell DOES NOT have to deal damage.

yay nibbers1 votes

It's weird because you're right on the spell not having to deal damage but Karthus still can't do it, at least I haven't been able to in Practice Tool. I can do it on Veigar with E-W-Q, and I can do it on Karthus with Q-Q-Q, but I can't seem to proc it with W-Q-Q.

MangelinaJolie1 votes

I realized you probably tried it in practice tool after I posted. That is weird. I feel like it’s an outlying bug or something because of the inconsistency. If Veigar can proc it off his cage (which is actually why I assumed) then no doubt Karthus should be able to with his wall.

EkyonKun1 votes

Pretty much anything triggers Electrocute honestly. You can deal 0 damage then get Electrocute proc. You can buy Frost item 3092 item 3143 item 3800 and use them all at the same time on someone to get the damage. Hell, even summoner 3 summoner 14 help proc it.

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

{quoted}

Just tested in practice tool. I was under the assumption that the same spell could trigger Electrocute, but not the same spell cast. EX: Cass E x3, Karthus W, Q Q... But I guess that isn't the case.

WEQ will trigger it though :^)

Wait so ur telling me... that 3 casts of the same ability won't trigger it, but 3 AA will how is that ok?

NineTailedMystic1 votes

No, it should. Or at least that's what I've been told after posting that.

MohawkBird2 votes

[deleted]

DracosKasu1 votes

It isnt because you cant take it but overall sorc will generally be more usefull over time. The thing with domination and assassin is they have duskblade to stack up with electrocute which give them even most burst overall. Mage in the other hand can do similar thing with luden but end up way more weaker then duskblade.

MohawkBird1 votes

[deleted]

TNHA Baritone1 votes

{quoted}

You can always spec your secondary into sorcery to make use of whatever you wanted in that tree. It's far better to go Domination primary as a burst mage, then take something like Orb, Band, or Transcendence to still take advantage of the utility. By going Domination, you are not necessarily losing out to access in the sorcery tree, which I think is a thing a lot of people don't consider.

This is true but you do ultimately lose out on the ability to go into Inspiration for Perfect Timing (which a lot of immobile mages need versus assassins) AND one of the 3 lesser runes of Sorcery.

Chaos Milk Tea1 votes

{quoted}

Again, Electrocute. Domination is fine.

He is saying there is not a sustained damage rune for AP champions. Electrocute gives burst damage. That is the opposite of fine.

TNHA Baritone1 votes

{quoted}

Again, Electrocute. Domination is fine.

The precision tree is great for auto-attackers. The Sorcery tree (except for keystone) is great for mages. Domination tree is not bad.

Troll for Trump4 votes

Electrocute would be fine on mages if the rest of the minor runes weren't really horrible for them.

Jelaku3 votes

The dash arpen/mpen is actually pretty nice for some of the more mobile AP types but I agree the second two minor runes in that tree feel pretty bad. I am not a fan of that tree's minor runes.

SanKakU4 votes

Why can't they just use Press the Attack? item 3124 item 1416 item 3091 item 3115 These items all exist and AP champions can use them to great effect, so why not take Press the Attack?

Lauchmelder1 votes

If you can give me one answer to: "Why should AP champions need to go off-meta just to use a keystone rune that feels nice?"

Sure, I'll do that. If you can't, this is just pure troll

SanKakU2 votes

item 3010 instead of item 3165 is off meta on Veigar I guess but that doesn't mean that the meta is solid for that champion. It's still a new season. If people are stubborn about the meta from last season, that's their own fault.

Handy Sandy 2 votes

{quoted}

Why can't they just use Press the Attack? item 3124 item 1416 item 3091 item 3115 These items all exist and AP champions can use them to great effect, so why not take Press the Attack?

lmao Xerath item 3124 item 1416 item 3091 item 3115 time to grab that elo

SanKakU1 votes

You might have the wrong idea. I wasn't suggesting become an AS champ just get a little attack speed to combo with your keystone. 1-2 items with AS, not 4+ should be plenty. Xerath works best with allies around him anyway, so that enemy has to choose between dodging his attacks and avoiding his allies. Since his stun is relatively short range, he might be able to force a retreat with some attack speed item and then while his ally chases he could siege up and have higher damage artillery shots.

DragonShea3 votes

Well here is the fundamental flaw in the rune system atm. The runes you get are gated by class roles. Precision should be for sustain dps but it only allows ADC's and skirmishers primarily to use it optimally. Domination is for assassins and other burst champs while sorcery is the only rune group that doesn't accommodate a class cough Mages cough optimally.

SooFr0sty3 votes

Only issue is that a lot of mages have Aoe abilities while press the attack is single target and reset when targets are changed.

Meaning if any Aoe ability hurt another change it would get reset.

Honestly just surprised press the attack makes all damage from all sources increased, not just damage from person who proced it.

Ryusaether3 votes

Press the attack is the most unhealthy keystone imo. Fervor was way better, it's really silly rewarding the WHOLE team for autoing 3 times someone, imagine it by hitting 3 AoE spells.

Shablagoo3 votes

Diana Teemo Kayle TwistedFate These mages can use it, again arcane comet only caters to some adc's too. Why does riot have to completely revamp the keystone so it is viable on all mages, when keystones are suppose to work for certain playstyle.

Hópe3 votes

AP champs themselves wouldn't really benefit from an ap version because most AP champs are rotational based. By the time you proc the three hits you'd probably have a spell left IF that and i don't think 12 percent of your next syndra Q will be better than comet aery or electrocute for how unreliable it'd be.

The does more damage from your teammates thing shouldnt be there though I'll give it that

LordGeovanni1 votes

it would be better than arey for syndra just off of her q same with orianna.

Lord of Math2 votes

Keystone idea: every third instance of magic damage on a target deals (%AP) bonus damage. scales with level. or alternatively: Every fourth instance of magic damage deals 5 magic damage (Scaling with levels) and applies on hit/ on spell effects. Thus Brand would have a field day with this. Rework it so it is not infinite damage possibly. Or make it so it continues to deal damage until it fades away. Like 100% AP first tick, 50% second and halving every tick until the base MR negates it entirely.

YuGiHo2 votes

dps mages would love this, imagine cass with this kind of keystone.

Lord of Math2 votes

{quoted}

dps mages would love this, imagine cass with this kind of keystone.

That was my thought.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

It sounds absolutely disgusting.

Kaìju2 votes

Teemo would abuse that so hard.

yay nibbers2 votes

We have that, it's called Electrocute.

Lord of Math1 votes

[{quoted}](name=HTC VIVE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NeXo38ax,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2017-12-08T07:02:49.595+0000)

We have that, it's called Electrocute.

Electrocute has a cooldown though. The topic of dps mages came up, Please pay attention.

Fedoran2 votes

But then there would be a keystone that “would be unfair for our auto-attack compatriates” OMEGALUL.

Riot is never going to cater to caster mages again rip :(

LordGeovanni2 votes

as a mage unless you are casseopia you should be auto attacking inbetween spells anyway press the attack isnt locked away from mages by being bad for them but rather bad habits of mage players

Lauchmelder1 votes

If you don't AA inbetween your abilities on Cassiopeia you aren't really a good Cass.

LordGeovanni1 votes

sure early game but by time cass gets 20% cdr you her spells hardly have enough down time to auto attack. Much like saying if you dont auto attack without your soliders on Azir you are a bad azir which is true early game until he gets any type of cooldown reduction

hoyohai1 votes

Even Ryze?

Linna Excel2 votes

Why can’t AP champions get some equivalent to the Press the Attack rune?

Because press the attack exists and it does adaptive damage?

You could easily grab triumph and coup de grace on an AP champ, it's just that 3rd line which would be meh to everyone who's not kayle, teemo, or orianna. I'm sure other mages could get away with it too if they rush a nashor's. I know it's not optimal, but if you like what the rune does you can at least try it out.

0racle09121 votes

What about tweaking comet to make it if you land 3 consecutive spells or something (even if they are the same), it will lower the cooldown of comet? If this was done I would say it would be slightly stronger, so maybe a bit of a damage nerf, but it would be more reliable maybe.

Legatus Marumo1 votes

(From the in-game client and I quote) "Damaging a champion with an ability hurls a comet at their location, or, if arcane comet is on cooldown, reduces it's remaining cooldown." So your idea is not already being done, but is also being done with every ability that hits an enemy champion as opposed to 3 hits.

0racle09121 votes

[{quoted}](name=Legatus Marumo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NeXo38ax,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2017-12-09T03:24:52.280+0000)

(From the in-game client and I quote) "Damaging a champion with an ability hurls a comet at their location, or, if arcane comet is on cooldown, reduces it's remaining cooldown." So your idea is not already being done, but is also being done with every ability that hits an enemy champion as opposed to 3 hits.

Oh well that's nice lol. If the damage increase was added with the combo it might make it a little better, and even if more of the cooldown was reduced by the 3 attack / ability combo. I just find comet to be a little too exclusive to champs with CC, and it could be combined with the OP to make it more reliable to a diverse selection while also having the PTA like feature.

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