Fizz rework idea.

HongChongDong··4 votes·1,469 views

Just an idea for people to think about. If you have your issues with it then of course you're free to tell me.

The things I wanted to accomplish with this little idea were as follows:

Keeping with the idea of "delayed damage".

Increasing his overall damage.

Switch ability focus from his E to his W as a primary damage source.

Turn his E into utility only.

Give him an actual passive.

And change his playstyle into what I see as being closer to a slippery trickster that his character is designed as.


Passive: Atlantean Surge

  • Fizz's next use of Seastone Trident or Chum the Waters will ignore 10%/15%/20%/25%/35%/40% of the target champions total Magic resist and shields.

  • Cooldown 25/22/17/12/8/6 seconds. This is not affected by CDR.

  • This passive will be consumed by the first ability to come into contact with a champion. So if Chum the Waters comes into contact first it will consume the passive even if Seastone trident was activated before the cast, or even if Seastone trident is used on an enemy champion before the damage of Chum the Waters Activates.

  • This passive affects both damage components that are tied to both abilities.


Q: Urchin Strike

  • Stays the same.

W: Seastone Trident

  • Fizz's next auto attack deals bonus magic damage and applies a mark of Rend which stacks for 2 seconds and will remain after finished stacking for 3 seconds. If Fizz auto attacks a target affected by a fully stacked mark, Rend will activate dealing an additional (3/4/5/6/7% per 100 AP) of the targets missing health over 4 seconds. If Fizz successfully consumes the mark then Seastone Trident's active cooldown will be reduced by 50%

  • If Fizz uses Seastone Trident on a target affected by Chum the Waters then Rend will instantly stack to full.

  • Cooldown stays the same

  • Damage of the empowered auto attack is 70/120/170/220/270/320 (+100% AP).

  • If Seastone Trident kills its target, its cooldown is reduced to 1 second and refunds the mana cost.

  • Units can not have another mark of Rend applied for 10 seconds after the first mark is consumed. 5 seconds if the mark expires.


E: Playful/Trickster

  • Stays the same mechanically, damage is removed entirely, and the ability gets 3 number changes.

  • An additional 50 Range is added to both dashes.

  • Cooldown is 18/16/14/10/8. Early is the same as the current cooldown but the last 2 levels is back to the old cooldown.

  • 90 mana cost at all ranks.


R: Chum the Waters

  • Fizz attaches a lure to a target enemy champion that attracts a shark, causing it to emerge after 2.5 seconds, dealing magic damage, knocking aside surrounding enemies and slowing them for 1.5 seconds. If the target has a fully stacked Rend applied, Chum the Waters will consume the mark upon emerging in place of an auto attack modifying Rend's damage by (4%/5%/7%/9%/10% per 100 AP) of the targets missing health.

  • If Rend was not already active and the target was not on Cooldown for another stack, Chum the Waters would start stacking Rend.

  • Damage is 225/335/445 (+70% AP)

  • Cooldown is the same.

  • Eruption Radius is 300. Range to place the fish on a target is 250. Knockback radius is 250.

  • Surrounding units hit by the ultimate will be slowed for 60% for 1.5 seconds but the target affected by Chum the Waters will not be slowed during the time the lure is latched on nor after the emerging of the shark.


The idea for this kit is to give him a defined role as an assassin. He specializes in weaving in and out of fights while having his role as an assassin strengthened. When your team can't simply dive the carry that needs to die in order for your team to win, a good fizz will be able to almost guarantee a kill if he can use his slipperiness to get passed the frontline and to the carry. The is basically what all assassins should be capable of in my opinion.

I'm trying to make him a hit and run assassin similar to leblanc with dive capabilities similar to Zed. Go in, get out. Get rewarded for sticking around by being able to proc Rend and then try to escape. If you can't proc it then you lose a massive amount of damage but you still remain relevant through your high W damage and ability to jump in and out of fights inbetween uses of Seastone Trident. Unlike before where you were only relevant if you could use your empowered W which only granted a minor reward compared to massive risk you would have to take to proc it. This typically left you with only being able to effectively fight someone through use of your ult but this was countered by mobility or simply blocking it using tankier champions. This meant that if there was no way for you to hit a carry with your ultimate, you were virtually useless.

Then comes the actual dive. With damage no longer stacked onto his E, he doesn't have to worry about not being able to use the mobility just to gain access to the rest of his damage. With that he can dive carries using his mobility and then almost guarantee a kill with his passive ignoring shields and MR.

Outside of diving the passive helps him champions who stack defensive stats against him and also have more than enough mobility to chase him down. With no other option but to fight I wanted to add more counterplay to champions who'd simply use defensive stats (shields, HP resistances, ect.) to negate his damage so they could apply there own with nothing Fizz can do about it. Examples of this would be most AD champions who build Maw which would otherwise make it so he either died or nearly died trying to get the shield to go off or he simply didn't fight them at all and avoided them. Works similar with raw MR. The Magic pen passive would also keep him relevant in the game in situations where he simply couldn't get to the carries for any reason and was only left to assist in taking down the rest of the team, tank or otherwise.

Counterplay, delayed damage, whatever you choose to call it, comes from how his ult will change his engage style.

In his current kit, if the enemy is on the receiving end of the ult then there's nothing they can do if the ult is already attached or if they're in a position where it's undodgeable due to whatever reason. On the other hand, if he can't land the ult due to whatever reason it may be, then he's left with nothing he can do to counterplay his own mechanical weakness.

With this he still remains at a disadvantage when he can't land his ult but he's rewarded a great deal more for doing so and is guaranteed a successful ult if he can get close. Now enemies can simply avoid him, kite him, or use any other means to simply keep him away or force him to waste his mobility in order to make an attempt at closing the gap rather than either dodging his ult or getting hit and not being able to do anything to keep him off.

That's all I could think to type out at this time. I'm completely open to criticism so feel free to comment on what you think about the post. Thanks for reading!

8 Comments

Quepha2 votes

Fizz's main source of damage being his E is one of the big parts of his kit that keeps him in check. Forcing him to use it defensively cuts a big part of his damage out of his combo and when he starts to get enough damage on other parts of his kit (i.e. he finishes lichbane so his Q starts to really hurt or when he just had a ton of damage on auto attacks and bruiser Fizz was a thing) is when he starts to get really slippery.

You also haven't really said where the damage is going to come back on his kit. The %missing hp is not going to be enough (especially since the old missing hp ratios only really worked because he opened up with a fat E to create some missing hp to scale it up)

The magic resist shred also implies you want this Fizz to be attacking tanks much more often than he currently is, and I think this would just set Fizz up to be best used with a tanky AP bruiser build that lets his team beat on tanks so he can go in and effectively amplify all their damage with a missing hp ratio that ignores a ton of their resistances.

Frankly, I don't get it.

HongChongDong2 votes

Having damage on his W allows him to trade better and puts him in a role where he's attempting to trade the enemy then back out using his mobility till he can trade again. A hit and run style.

Having damage on his E away from the rest of his kit prevents him from being able to hit and run. You either waste your E using it at burst which leaves you exposed to being counter all in'd by your opponent, or you don't use your E for damage and deal next to nothing to opponents who are actually itemizing against you. Best examples are zed and ori mid lane.

Both are lane opponents who through respective itemization and summoner spells will be unkillable to you but in return will beable to counter attack you in full force. Your kit doesn't allow for effective trading as they'll out trade you if you're attempting to proc your W and will definitely kill you or put you in a lost lane if you try trading with your E. This becomes even more prominent post 6 and is also how his entire gameplay plays out in most cases as well. You either waste your E for an all in burst and potentially die, or you don't fight at all.

And I don't really believe that he shouldn't be slippery in the first place. His entire character design and lore would other wise suggest that he should be the slipperiest champion in the game.


The damage comes in from everything as shown. I specifically set it up so he can roll through his rotation before the damage hits to make the most out of the %missing HP as well the passive amplifies his damage quite a bit. The standard fizz setup right now will put you at a solid 600 AP late game. That's 40% of their missing HP from the W proc alone which is ramped up to 60% from the ult proc. Combine this with the damage from his Q. W and R, one of which ignoring 40% of their MR and shields as well as the extra 35% from Void staff and any flat penetration you have, and finally a lich bane to top it off.

That's a total of 2346 + 60% of the targets missing HP from abilities and lich bane. For a squishy champion which would be your primary target that'd be more than enough. The shield and magic penetration also apply to the bleed so keep that in mind. The numbers could even be changed if it was bad.


The magic pen works towards fighter bruisers, and fighters as well as remaining relevant in the face of tanks. I'm not trying to make him an AP assassin version of vayne but I want to try to fix this issue of other champions just stat checking him with shields, and resistances so they can just chase him down and pummel him because he isn't as durable as they are. It'd be a mechanic to counter fighters and bruisers doing it while also allowing him to actually matter VS true raw tank. Shield pen is half for that reason and the other half is increasing his dive power against carries that'd otherwise just get shields spammed on them making them virtually invincible towards fizz.

Just keep in mind I'm not saying that this idea is 100% the right way to go about it or anything. I'm simply putting this out there as being a good idea from my point of view.

TheHappyReaperz2 votes

Fizz's passive is awesome, why do you think its bad?

HongChongDong2 votes

{quoted}

Fizz's passive is awesome, why do you think its bad?

I mean, it's one of the most uninteractive, unimpactful, poorly made passives in the game. I'd probably rather have mundo's passive over this.

Just from a design philosophy point this should be on riots top 10 list of passives that go against everything they want for their modern champions.

EDIT- If you aren't familiar with it go look at sions old passive from pre rework. This is on a very similar is not equal level to that. The passive has minimal gains early game, doesn't scale at all till late, and by that point the number is so small relative to what the enemy is dealing that it's pointless to have. It's completely and 100% unnoticeable and uninteractive to both the enemy and the fizz player.

I Q2 votes

I have 3 problems with the rework.

  1. Damage was taken off the E, but wasn't returned elsewhere.
  1. additional (3/4/5/6/7% per 100 AP) of the targets missing health over 4 seconds

Riot has stated that they dislike missing health dmg because its hard to tell how much it will deal.

  1. His E is where his power lies. His strength and his weaknesses are in this ability, making it entirely utility would be like changing the champion's name.
HongChongDong1 votes

{quoted}

I have 3 problems with the rework.

  1. Damage was taken off the E, but wasn't returned elsewhere.

Riot has stated that they dislike missing health dmg because its hard to tell how much it will deal.

  1. His E is where his power lies. His strength and his weaknesses are in this ability, making it entirely utility would be like changing the champion's name.

The damage was specifically put into the missing HP as well as passive pen on shields and MR. With 600 AP (Typical end game build) the total is 40% on the W proc and 60% on the ult proc. I specifically used Garen's ult as a reference for what a healthy-ish execute would be like. I'm not trying to make a fix all assassin but rather one that can guarantee a kill on medium squishy to full squishy targets if he can successfully use his mobility to get close.

And yes I realize that riot dislikes the a Missing health DoT so I'm sure there were better ways to go about it but it simply seems like a viable option.That maybe due to my own biased as I enjoyed the missing health DoT but disliked people abusing it in the tank builds.

Finally I've always found it fundamentally wrong to put the focus on his E in damage. If Zed and leblanc are (using their words) Healthy and balanced assassins, then it's not exactly fair that fizz should choose between using his E to keep himself alive or using it for damage.

In alot of cases there were plenty of champions who'd easily survive fizz's burst and once he's used up his E then he's left as a sitting duck waiting to be killed. There was also no way around this because his kit has never really allowed him to get people low so he can afford to use his E in an all in.

This is even worst in the current times as resistance stats are readily available to champions of all types as well as massive amounts of shields and the summoner spell exhaust becoming more prominent.

My goal with this change was to still give him the same risk factor of using his mobility but change the playstyle of "I either kill this person with an all in or I don't fight them at all because I have no follow up or escape if I don't"

At the very least with his old W he had more finishing power/DPS to follow up with in the DoT but I can understand that both riot and other players didn't like the ability.

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

Finally I've always found it fundamentally wrong to put the focus on his E in damage. If Zed and leblanc are (using their words) Healthy and balanced assassins, then it's not exactly fair that fizz should choose between using his E to keep himself alive or using it for damage.

LeBlanc and Zed both have a huge chunk of their damage tied to their mobility cooldowns, I'm not sure if you could have found worse examples to try and support your point.

HongChongDong1 votes

{quoted}

LeBlanc and Zed both have a huge chunk of their damage tied to their mobility cooldowns, I'm not sure if you could have found worse examples to try and support your point.

No no no I'm not saying they don't have damage tied to their mobility. I'm saying that they're not forced to choose between all ining or not fighting at all when it comes to their ability usage. Zed's has a longer CD than Leblancs does but he can use his from a safe distance and avoid the enemy if they're that much a threat during laning phase. During later he can freely choose to use it for engaging or even escaping without being forced to use it in his oneshot capabilities.

Leblanc is even safer than that by having 2 of the same dashs and with hers allowing her to immediately blink back to her original location.

Again, what I'm saying is that fizz is forced to choose between using his E as his only way to deal full damage or not fighting at all for the risk of not killing his target and being left as a sitting duck.

Not a perfect example but a more common one. Zed. Once you've both hit 6 there is no trading. If you try to trade him you'll be forced to use your E in one way or the other, and if you do he can immediately ult you and he definitely will kill you if you don't have your E. But at the same time you can't all in him and kill him because at that point he'll have a hexdrinker which will 100% guarantee that he can't die, even to a full rotation of all of your abilities and ignite which leaves you in the exact same spot where you have no way to escape or finish him.

The examples continue on and on through out all stages of the game against all manner of team comps and matchups. The only examples where this isn't the case is the ones that fizz is known for which are champions/teamcomps where he can freely hit viably killable targets with his ult and they have no way of negating his damage.

More from Gameplay

More by HongChongDong