Few comments/criticisms on Scarra Midseason update rundown

KoKoboto··1 votes·439 views

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WTQHXwwm8U

At the start of the video there's already a major flaw, where is the Katarina poster in the background of the Scarra camera.

Rift Herald and Sejuani are bueno overall.

Mao'Kai Scarra seemingly passes over the new mechanics with the sapplings, granted need more information on how they work. Mao'Kai ult seems identical to Nami wave. Going to have to look at overall duration of the root and how far the roots will travel cause that can really change gameplay. Based on how the sapplings and ultimate work Mao'Kai could be really unique unlike how Scarra says.

Zac Zac is a unique champion but only because of one ability. After his E everything else is boring. Sure Zac is able to work but the gameplay is so dull and the only mechanics that are present are in E. Scarra misses the point on class updates which are about giving the champions distinct gameplay. His comparison to Ahri works against his argument that champions don't need to be fun to play. Ahri is also a problem and her W does need work, won't go into more detail here though.

Scarra sees Zac's W needing more of a change than Q, also the ultimate might look unique visually in gameplay it isn't. Zac W is pretty much a water downed version of the ultimate and although is simple to use the ability pretty much enables the blob pick up gameplay. This reason alone makes it more integral and distinct to Zac's kit over the Q, despite the fact the Q may be more mechanically challenging to use on paper. We see how this blob pick up gameplay can give players that mechanically good feeling with Katarina. The Katarina rework was a good job and all the Kat for the most part loved the changes and new skill that was required.

Zac's ultimate gameplay wise is just path around and knock up people near you which is not dynamic at all. The comparison has been made to Wukong's R, both abilities are so similar and mechanically simple. Sure Zac is rewarding but the only thing unique about his kit is the E, everything else is simple. Scarra than questions why did Zac even need a change, that Zac is a solid champion. We can say none of the reworks in the game are necessary, we can keep old simple abilities in the game forever and keep champions at low level interactions of gameplay but that is boring and doesn't reward players for skillful play.

Other Tanks Scarra goes against Rito and says, note I'm paraphrasing, "wow Rito thinks the other tanks are good so we don't need small reworks wow". For the most part this is actually true. I'm with Scarra in that Malphite and Cho'Gath could really use some changes. For Cho'Gath I agree his kit is kinda simple, but how are abilities that only increase with damage but not CDR per rank boring? The main goal of class updates are to make the champions unique and distinct, Malphite and Cho'Gath are unique with distinct kits albeit mechanically really simple. Zac is a bigger canidate for the changes because out of all his abilities only one is interesting, while Malphite and Cho have arguably more interesting abilities, Cho more than Malphite. Jarvan is kinda weird, he has unique gameplay and honestly he seems more like a fighter/diver than a tank, also although his kit is really old it is unique and distinct. Garen and Aatrox aren't tanks... Scarra needs to use better resources, sad that the League Of Legends website is a bad resource. Hopefully Rito gets their stuff in order like they did with the League lore, now League Universe.

Items Scarra says that Rito hasn't nerfed Ryze or consistent damage, they have numerous times. I believe the main point Rito is trying to make here is that it seems the only option to deal with OP consistent damage is to nerf the champions or items and they want to take a different approach to dealing with consistent damage now with the new item. Scarra pretty much says this but yeah.

The changes to item health are great.

I am very much with Scarra with the GA changes, I think GA is such a tedious item to deal with and I remember the days when there were numerous GA in a game. I am worried about GA coming back into the game as well. I also think the change is good, tanks don't need GA, it lowers the skill floor of tank gameplay if they get a get out of jail free card for poor initiations or something. On the contrary you could argue it allows these tanks to go for more risky plays there need to be consequences. Also having to kill a tank twice is kinda dumb.

Team Contributions Scarra doesn't see that looking at post-game stats is actually nice to have and focuses on babies who think stats win games or whatever. The important part about having the access to these stats is to see how we're doing in the game and information is just nice to have. Rito isn't just doing this for babies they're mostly if not entirely doing this so that players can have information to how they perform in game. Scarra sees it as "rewards" yeah it may be for some players but for most it is good information to have and help players improve.

I agree with Scarra on support itemization and how support is a really strong role in the game. I don't think supports are scary and don't agree with Scarra's fear of supports having higher impact in the game. I understand the fear though, most of the time supports have the ability to make insane plays and need the team to follow up in order to get the kills. If supports had more power the only way I could see htis happening is if blehblashlebflbaebruagh

7 Comments

Muzét1 votes

the ultimate might look unique visually in gameplay it isn't. Zac W is pretty much a water downed version of the ultimate

Not. Zac W is his main dpsing ability and doesn't provide any kind of cc, purely dmg. On the contrary R provide huge displacements for the enemy team (and it will be an enemy team displacement through the rework. I doon't see how can we say that W = R.

. Jarvan is kinda weird, he has unique gameplay and honestly he seems more like a fighter/diver than a tank

Jarvan IS a diver. The release idea was maybe to be a tank but he's now considered more like a diver even by riot standards.

If supports had more power the only way I could see htis happening is if

??? Supports need diversity af. Supports shouldn't have 4-5 slots locked. [item 2045 + Gold Gen Item] / [item 2049 Gold Gen upgrade + item 3107] + item 3190 (since those two seem like a must to pick atm) + obviously item 1001 upgrade. Ward Active Bot.

KoKoboto1 votes

Yes it's not equal but it's practically a watered down version, pretty much lesser than the ultimate in every way. So W is basically AoE damage around the unit with low CD to generate lots of blobs. R is AoE damage around the unit that knocks up once, afterwards it's pretty much W but less or more damage depending who you hit it with. Yes the abilities are different I understand that, the R is can be defined as a better version of the W.

You said it yourself, locket and redemption seem necessary, well they're not. For most supports you can buy stats to enable your champion to do what they do. For example on tank supports I'm not gonna build locket first item or redemption at all, I want armor, cdr, health so that I can survive and do what I can do. I haven't build Redemption at all after trying it a few times, I've only built Locket if I feel fights are gonna start with burst or whatever.

I appreciate your double reply allowing me to read your comment twice?

Muzét1 votes

Ups seems like the browser went wild.

I do disagree with you. It's not because they both AoE dmg around the unit that one his an upgrade version of the other. I get your point but it's not the case here. As I stated W is the dps skill you got, R doesn't dps that much as W let's face it. Total dmg is 280/420/560 (+80% AP). 560 dmg is you're hitting the three bounces on the same target. While W does 40/55/70/85/100(+4/5/6/7/8% Target's Max HP [+2%/100AP]). The difference is huge specially when you're not using your ult to put three bounces on the same target since you want to displace or separate a team in two groups usually. W and R shouldn't be compared.

I used the word seem on purpose. They usually are for me (since I like playing Enchanters over Wardens). The other items are lacking. So sometimes I can go AP rather than utility cause Ardent is situational, Athenes isn't even picked that much by the ones who should use it (Sona/Karma), Mikael is a complete joke. What's left? Not a lot of choices.

KoKoboto1 votes

There are many different things that differentiate abilities from each other. If the only difference in the abilities is damage than I feel a comparison can be made. If they changed R to the same damage as W or the other way around and could also easily make it so W knocks back on cast. Only 2 changes need to be made for the abilities to be identical, as such I think a comparison can be made.

In contrast lets compare an ultimate with a basic ability on another champion. Amumu R and his W. These abilities I see aren't similar at all, first off casting wise one is a toggle which changes how the player uses the ability right off the bat. W has small AoE and consistent damage while R has huge AoE and is burst damage with entangle making it better against auto attacks but not spell casters. Also you want to position yourself in the middle of a team to get everyone in the ultimate. So in order to make these abilities the same you would need significant changes to how it is cast, AoE, damage, CC, positioning. Now back to Zac you only need to change damage slightly and CC, being in the middle of the team for the ultimate is great but doesn't matter because you can bounce around to the back line. This discussion is a huge tangent to my main points in the original post lol.

The fact that you have the option to sometimes go AP over utility is already huge. Look at tank items or adc items or mage items. The support class is able to go from AP focused, item active focused, tank focused builds is huge. ADCs always build IE, A/S, botrk, pen. Tanks always build sunfire, dead mans, frozen heart. spirit visage, one damage item. Mage pretty much always build morellonomicon, ludens, void staff, zhonyas and those things. Unless the mage is a DPS one than it's tear, RoA than void, zhonyas etc.

Taking a look at Champion GG and League of Graphs for Sona and Karma. I think Athene's is a pretty good item it's just that the players just buy Locket and Redemption every single game it crowds out any other item choices. Looking at Ivern's build he always builds Athene's, I do too, because he doesn't need a sightstone item. Mikael's is a pretty bad item. If the enemy team has insane CC, Mikael's to save your teammate. Granted if you buy strong support items you may be able to save your teammate with your champions abilities on it's own, making Mikael's pretty useless.

The Lost Marbles1 votes

It's not that Malphite, Cho, etc... don't need work, it's that they need MORE work than what a normal class update can provide.

They basically need full VGUs, not just minor tweaks.

KoKoboto1 votes

Yeah I agree with that. The abilities they have are kinda distinct, all of Cho's abilities kinda and Malphite E kinda but they do need full VGUs. I understand how you could say my statement regarding why Cho and Malphite weren't updated is wrong and I agree. I won't edit what I typed up though cause it's just initial thoughts but I do think you're right.

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